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View Full Version : Ukraine Revolution Round Two?



Paprika
04-08-2014, 08:54 AM
Pro-Russian activists who seized the main administration building in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk
have proclaimed the creation of a sovereign "people's republic" independent of Kiev rule.

Pro-Russian protests have been held in various parts of eastern Ukraine since Russia intervened in Crimea, and annexed it last month after the overthrow of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich amid mass protests in the capital Kiev.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/04/protesters-seize-arms-ukrainian-city-20144772324155489.html

The irony is too much :lmbo:

seanD
04-08-2014, 09:38 AM
May elections should be interesting, especially with Tymoshenko running.

seer
04-08-2014, 09:48 AM
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/04/protesters-seize-arms-ukrainian-city-20144772324155489.html

The irony is too much :lmbo:

Don't worry, Jay Carney just warned Russia to stay out of it or Obama would get really, really mad! That should keep the Russian Bear at bay - NOT!!!!

Cow Poke
04-08-2014, 10:01 AM
I heard that Putin has a picture of Obama's face in his urinal.
:outtie:

rogue06
04-09-2014, 01:03 PM
Don't worry, Jay Carney just warned Russia to stay out of it or Obama would get really, really mad! That should keep the Russian Bear at bay - NOT!!!!
Really mad? Does that mean that he'll stomp his foot or wag his finger?

Cow Poke
04-09-2014, 01:06 PM
Really mad? Does that mean that he'll stomp his foot or wag his finger?

No. It means he'll end a sentence with the dramatic exclamation -- PERIOD!

rogue06
04-09-2014, 01:11 PM
No. It means he'll end a sentence with the dramatic exclamation -- PERIOD!
To be fair it isn't like we took any action after they invaded Czechoslovakia in the 1960s or Hungary in the 1950s

Cow Poke
04-09-2014, 01:45 PM
To be fair it isn't like we took any action after they invaded Czechoslovakia in the 1960s or Hungary in the 1950s

Did we posture and threaten we would, after having had disastrous foreign policy failures like Syria and Libya? (Korea would have been in there somewhere)

Paprika
04-10-2014, 02:51 AM
May elections should be interesting, especially with Tymoshenko running.
A recent poll (http://www.unian.net/politics/905859-85-ukraintsev-gotovyi-prinyat-uchastie-v-prezidentskih-vyiborah-opros.html) has the independent Poroshenko with an overwhelming lead, 3 times the support of Tymoshenko, in second place. Of course, things will likely change as the situation there is hardly stable.

seanD
04-15-2014, 04:26 PM
Russian fighter jet provokes US warship in spite of US warning...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQOrMOyRf0E

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2604590/Russian-fighter-jet-ignored-warnings-provocatively-passed-U-S-Navy-destroyer-Black-Sea-90-minutes-getting-close-1-000-yards.html

I guess now all it takes is one mistake and it's on.

Cow Poke
04-15-2014, 04:28 PM
Russian fighter jet provokes US warship in spite of US warning...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQOrMOyRf0E

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2604590/Russian-fighter-jet-ignored-warnings-provocatively-passed-U-S-Navy-destroyer-Black-Sea-90-minutes-getting-close-1-000-yards.html

I guess now all it takes is one mistake and it's on.

Yup! Like Hunt for Red October -- Admiral Josh Painter: "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."

Paprika
04-15-2014, 10:57 PM
Russian fighter jet provokes US warship in spite of US warning...
I guess now all it takes is one mistake and it's on.
Doubt it. Remember when North Korea sunk one of South Korea's ships?

seanD
04-16-2014, 05:09 AM
Doubt it. Remember when North Korea sunk one of South Korea's ships?

I don't know if the two scenarios are the same. I doubt it. It would depend on the objectives of the parties surrounding the event. There are obviously far more objectives for both Russia and the West in regards to Ukraine than the objectives (if there even were any objectives) between the Koreas at the time.

seanD
04-17-2014, 09:18 AM
NATO mobilizes troops in the region...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/world/europe/nato-ukraine.html?_r=0

Paprika
04-17-2014, 09:21 AM
I don't know if the two scenarios are the same. I doubt it. It would depend on the objectives of the parties surrounding the event. There are obviously far more objectives for both Russia and the West in regards to Ukraine than the objectives (if there even were any objectives) between the Koreas at the time.
The salient similarity that neither side is interested in actual war will probably result in caution before any direct action in reponse to any possible mistake. I don't intend to be dogmatic on this point though.

Paprika
04-17-2014, 09:24 AM
NATO mobilizes troops in the region...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/world/europe/nato-ukraine.html?_r=0
From the article:

Mr. Rasmussen also renewed calls on Russia to stop destabilizing Ukraine, to pull back its troops from the Ukrainian border and to “make clear it doesn’t support the violent actions of well-armed militias of pro-Russian separatists.

I don't recall anyone rebuking the US for "destabilizing" and supporting the opposition during the earlier revolution :ahem:

Darth Executor
04-17-2014, 11:56 AM
I don't recall anyone rebuking the US for "destabilizing" and supporting the opposition during the earlier revolution :ahem:

The opposition wanted to remove existing Russian influence. Russia's been destabilizing the region from the start.

Paprika
04-17-2014, 12:05 PM
The opposition wanted to remove existing Russian influence. Russia's been destabilizing the region from the start.
I'll grant that but US also supported the destabilising of Yanukovych's government :shrug:

Darth Executor
04-17-2014, 12:10 PM
I'll grant that but US also supported the destabilising of Yanukovych's government :shrug:

There's nothing wrong with destabilizing the government of a thief and traitor. Assuming he even won the elections fairly in the first place. He was already a confirmed voter fraudster.

Paprika
04-17-2014, 12:15 PM
There's nothing wrong with destabilizing the government of a thief and traitor.
I'm not sure I agree. It isn't because I think that such a leader should remain as government, but I highly doubt interference by other governments are done with the most altruistic of motives.

Also, destabilising existing governments doesn't mean that things will go better after the existing establishment is thrown out. Arab "Spring", anyone?

seanD
04-17-2014, 01:20 PM
There's nothing wrong with destabilizing the government of a thief and traitor. Assuming he even won the elections fairly in the first place. He was already a confirmed voter fraudster.

There is when the key perpetrators behind the scene then try and argue that the destabilization is organic and that outside forces need to be deployed as a humanitarian enterprise to rescue the inside forces. Not to mention the circumstances that usually end up being worse and more dangerous in the aftermath.

Paprika
04-18-2014, 06:26 AM
In a glaring humiliation for the government, a military operation to confront pro-Russian militants in the east unraveled on Wednesday with the entire contingent of 21 armored vehicles that had separated into two columns surrendering or pulling back.
...
One of the armored columns stopped when a crowd of people, many of whom were drinking or yelling taunts, gathered on the road before them. Later in the day its commander agreed to hand over the soldiers’ assault rifles to the very separatists they were sent to fight.

Another column from the same unit, the 25th Dnipropetrovsk paratrooper brigade, surrendered not only its weapons but also the tracked and armored vehicles it had arrived in, letting militants park them as trophies, under a Russian flag, in a central square.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/world/europe/ukraine-crisis.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=Europe&action=keypress&region=FixedLeft&pgtype=article

It reads like something from the Onion.

seanD
05-02-2014, 06:03 PM
Things are getting pretty hot in the country. I'm surprised it's not getting more attention here.

Paprika
05-02-2014, 08:48 PM
Things are getting pretty hot in the country. I'm surprised it's not getting more attention here.
Media buzz tends to die down after a while. I haven't been keeping up much myself, but apparently they can't handle the separatists, not least because the military general and admirals have extremely close ties with the Red Army.

seanD
05-03-2014, 09:23 AM
I suspect MSM will start giving it more attention now that the Benghazi conspiracy has resurged in the House with more vigor.

Paprika
05-03-2014, 09:30 AM
I suspect MSM will start giving it more attention now that the Benghazi conspiracy has resurged in the House with more vigor.
You mean, now that they've just about run out of re-runs about MH370.

Paprika
05-27-2014, 11:36 PM
A recent poll (http://www.unian.net/politics/905859-85-ukraintsev-gotovyi-prinyat-uchastie-v-prezidentskih-vyiborah-opros.html) has the independent Poroshenko with an overwhelming lead, 3 times the support of Tymoshenko, in second place. Of course, things will likely change as the situation there is hardly stable.
Update: Poroshenko has won, and things seem like they'll move to a full-blown civil war.

Cow Poke
05-28-2014, 06:43 AM
Update: Poroshenko has won, and things seem like they'll move to a full-blown civil war.

Putin had some "separatists" who got out of hand - he could not control them -- so he will allow the Ukrainians to deal with them. Then he'll play his hand.