Molinists wanted

[john-philip]

Okay, so me and a friend of mine love this site and check it out quite a bit. We're both "baby molinists," and we both come from another forum at http://www.derekwebb.com/phpBB2/index.php


It's a nice site with a theology forum. However it's overun by calvinists. I don't mean that in a mean way....but it's basically 90% calvinist. But not cool calvinists who like to debate fairly and have fruitful discussions...they seem really unfair in they're debating techniques, and it's really frustrating, cause we like to post there, but can't seem to have a decent conversation. Most of the arminians who come ther, aren't studied and seem easily persuaded by what is said. And when someone challeneges them, they're not very nice.. So we're at our wits end about what to do...we need help.



What should we do?


frustrated,
John-Philip

[semmie]

:nsm:

[Jaltus]

You should join TWeb and debate here instead. We seem to be evenly split between Calvinists (boo), Molinists (yeah), and Open Theists (boo).

Thus, I recommend hanging out here. Two of the three owners are Molinists, as is one of the admins (me). We also have a Calvinist admin and an OV owner, so we tend to have people all over the place.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Normally we do not allow "advertising" links at all to another forum but I am allowing this one to stand as a rare exception to our rule as a favor to another Christian forum as I am aware that numerous positive links to our forum have been allowed there and we share a significant Christian cross-membership. This again though is a very rare exception, I need to make that clear.

That being said though the goal of this forum in Christian issues has been to have a fair representation of all major views in leadership to assure a good balance, so I would reiterate Jaltus' comment that of course we would say that the molinists should come and debate here. I would add to Jaltus comments that one of our Admin Assts, Bill the Cat, is also Molinist, and the two owenrs that our Molinist are myself (a fairly new Molinist) and Cirisme, we also have a brilliant Molinist moderator, mattballman.

[semmie]

Jaltus:

You should join TWeb and debate here instead. We seem to be evenly split between Calvinists (boo), Molinists (yeah), and Open Theists (boo).

Thus, I recommend hanging out here. Two of the three owners are Molinists, as is one of the admins (me). We also have a Calvinist admin and an OV owner, so we tend to have people all over the place.
oh my gosh! jaltus! you're like...a legend! jp's gonna be so psyched that you answered his post. :teeth:



Dee Dee Warren:

Normally we do not allow "advertising" links at all to another forum but I am allowing this one to stand as a rare exception to our rule as a favor to another Christian forum as I am aware that numerous positive links to our forum have been allowed there and we share a significant Christian cross-membership. This again though is a very rare exception, I need to make that clear.

That being said though the goal of this forum in Christian issues has been to have a fair representation of all major views in leadership to assure a good balance, so I would reiterate Jaltus' comment that of course we would say that the molinists should come and debate here. I would add to Jaltus comments that one of our Admin Assts, Bill the Cat, is also Molinist, and the two owenrs that our Molinist are myself (a fairly new Molinist) and Cirisme, we also have a brilliant Molinist moderator, mattballman.
yay! dee dee, thanks for not hacking the thread. i don't think jp would've been upset if you'd deleted the link or anything...i'm pretty sure he's not out to cause a riot. :tongue:

still. the thread is super important to both jp and myself...which is why it's so thrilling that y'all responded. i guess we're interested in how any of you would handle some of the posters and their assumptions. we've tried numerous times to invite some of them here. one fellow in particular has caused myself a great deal of grief. when i've suggested we move the discussion to a more neutral territory (namely, here), he's shrugged me off. i'm not so concerned with proving anybody wrong or right, but i know i've not handled him as best i could have, and i could really benefit from seeing a mature, educated, respectful, loving response to someone like him.

anyway, yeah...Tweb definitely has better smiley's. this place is great, with the differing views on grace and predestination, respectful interaction, the dancing banana, etcetera. but the problem remains: there's a world outside of Tweb, and folks out there aren't always as great as the folks here.


jaltus:You should join TWeb and debate here instead.

dee dee:I would reiterate Jaltus' comment that of course we would say that the molinists should come and debate here.

hm. this is a good idea. what say you, jp?

(by the way...yes, i quoted jaltus [oooh...sorry, jaltus; i should've asked you before i quoted you. it's a great quote, though...i want to get it tattoed on my...uhm...knee. yeah.] in my signature over at that other place...and i gave a link...and they haven't kicked me out or anything! i think it's because they're all so amazed at the wisdom.)

grace and peace in abundance,
~sarah

[Stephen]

DerekWebb? I've been to that board, only posted a few times though. I like his music, but the number of members seems to be incredibly biased towards calvinism, and this is coming from a calvinist.

[$cirisme]

Jaltus is idolized? And here we just throw beams on him :lol:

[semmie]

cirisme:

Jaltus is idolized? And here we just throw beams on him :lol:

jaltus pokes my eye out (figure of speech). :poke:

y'all are legends in your own way, cirisme. jaltus is the only one i was sure was a molinist, so i've been stalking him and reading all his posts. :whistle:


Stephen:

DerekWebb? I've been to that board, only posted a few times though. I like his music, but the number of members seems to be incredibly biased towards calvinism, and this is coming from a calvinist.

derek's music is phenomenal, and i don't even mind that he's a calvinist! but you're right--there's a strong bias among members. i don't mind hanging out with the lot of them, though. there's a good chunk of folks there who are really cool, and will engage good discussion. it's more an issue of just flat-out bad debate habits of some of the calvinists who post there daily and jump into every discussion and derail any decent challenges that are going on.

do you post there? do i know you?

grace & peace,
~sarah

[Stephen]

I only posted a few times, my sn was SaintandSinner, but I was never very involved.

[semmie]

alright!

i remember the name.

i am....was....is.....dusty cow. :hrm:

[john-philip]

oh yeah...the title of this was kinda facetious (but kinda serious too :wink: )


Thanks for making an exception...I love this site and I love telling people about it... :teeth:


Anyway, I guess maybe to give the thread a little more focus... how do you deal, in general, in that type of situation? My main concern is that there arguments tend to be very twisted; a lot of strawmen and a lot of unfounded (or unargued for) assumptions and most people don't tend to see it, thus accept their way of arguing, and are persuaded by it. It's just a little frustrating to watch...but we don't have to think of this in just terms of this specific forum, but what to do in general. I dunno. Thanks for any responses at all. It's appreciated :smile:


blessings,
JP

[Stephen]

I'd say as long as the topic is more rhetoric and less Scripture, you'll always have that problem. The only way to really avoid strawmen is to ask for scriptural evidence only, and from there argue it. I'm a calvinist, but I'm really on the fence and I do believe that molinists can answer scripture better than 90% of all calvinists believe. Keep the topic in thatr direction, and it should add a lot less bias.

[semmie]

Stephen:

I'd say as long as the topic is more rhetoric and less Scripture, you'll always have that problem. The only way to really avoid strawmen is to ask for scriptural evidence only, and from there argue it. I'm a calvinist, but I'm really on the fence and I do believe that molinists can answer scripture better than 90% of all calvinists believe. Keep the topic in thatr direction, and it should add a lot less bias.

yeah, i agree.

part of the problem, too, though, has been a misuse of scripture. for instance, the fellow i mentioned earlier...almost every time i have brought up any scriptural basis for disagreeing with him, he quotes romans 9 to me and says "who are you, oh man, to question god?" interestingly enough, when he's confronted about the abuse of text like that, he gets really upset and starts making a lot of personal attacks, both directly and indirectly.

i dunno. :nsm:

[Aaron Oliver]

hey Dusty Bovine! Hey John-Philip!

yeah it gets pretty ruff over at the ol d'webbs place i can testify to that... maybe one day things will get better.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Why don't one of you molinists over there issue a Gym debate challenge here specific to one of your Calvie opponents there, and then you will have the benefit of the commentary thread here in which the board molinists here will participate, and then you can use and benefit from those arguments which will be specific to arguments used by your particular opponent.

[john-philip]

Today @ 06:49 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=360118#post360118)
Dee Dee Warren:

Why don't one of you molinists over there issue a Gym debate challenge here specific to one of your Calvie opponents there, and then you will have the benefit of the commentary thread here in which the board molinists here will participate, and then you can use and benefit from those arguments which will be specific to arguments used by your particular opponent.



oooooh...awesome idea! I'll definitely plan on trying to do that :teeth:

[semmie]

Aaron Oliver:

hey Dusty Bovine! Hey John-Philip!

yeah it gets pretty ruff over at the ol d'webbs place i can testify to that... maybe one day things will get better.
sneaky aaron-webb-pie-face-dood!!!

i have one word for you:

ORANGE.




Dee Dee Warren:

Why don't one of you molinists over there issue a Gym debate challenge here specific to one of your Calvie opponents there, and then you will have the benefit of the commentary thread here in which the board molinists here will participate, and then you can use and benefit from those arguments which will be specific to arguments used by your particular opponent.

i thought this was a really great idea when jp told me you mentioned it. but...do you mean...challenge them from here? and hope they show up? or challenge them there...and...post the interaction over here...?

i initially thought you meant the first option. now i'm thinking you meant the second. i'm not sure.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Today @ 08:19 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=360160#post360160)
semmie:


sneaky aaron-webb-pie-face-dood!!!

i have one word for you:

ORANGE.

i thought this was a really great idea when jp told me you mentioned it. but...do you mean...challenge them from here? and hope they show up? or challenge them there...and...post the interaction over here...?

i initially thought you meant the first option. now i'm thinking you meant the second. i'm not sure.

Actually I did mean the first one. If there are a few particular ones over there that make certain types of arguments you are referrring to, I suggest making a challenge here and notifying them. The reason I am suggesting this is that if you wish perhaps to see how some of us here might respond to those arguments, you might get that in the commentary thread which you can then use in future interactions wherever you go.

[semmie]

Dee Dee Warren:

Actually I did mean the first one. If there are a few particular ones over there that make certain types of arguments you are referrring to, I suggest making a challenge here and notifying them. The reason I am suggesting this is that if you wish perhaps to see how some of us here might respond to those arguments, you might get that in the commentary thread which you can then use in future interactions wherever you go.

mhm, mhm, mhm....i gotcha now. :teeth: thanks for the idea. like i said, i've invited some of them over here more than a few times, and i've been turned down. i'm not sure i'll be challenging anyone right now...but jp's working on a little something...i'm excited about this, dee dee....!

woohoo!

thanks!