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AVmetro
January 5th 2004, 12:33 AM
Taken from MacGregor Ministries (http://www.macgregorministries.org). Article can be found here (http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovahs_witnesses/lastgen.html)

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The Last Generation
The Watchtower's newest light that points to the end by the year 2005


C Schatz MM Outreach

http://www.jwinfoline.com


The Watchtower's newest light that points to the end by the year 2005


Are we the last generation?

If we are to believe the doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses this is a question that is of utmost importance. How so? The last generation is the only generation that has a choice. On page 255 of the Watchtower's book
You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth; they present the choice that needs to be made by the last generation. They say, Really, there are but two choices. Christ compared it to the choice of either one of two roads.

One road, he said, is "broad and spacious." On it travelers are permitted freedom to please themselves. The other road, however, is "cramped." Yes, those on that road are required to obey the instructions and laws of God.

The majority, Jesus noted, are taking the broad road, only a few the narrow one. Which road will you choose? In making your choice, keep this in mind: The broad road will suddenly come to a dead end--destruction! On the other hand, the narrow road will lead you right through into God's new system. There you can share in making the earth a glorious paradise, where you can live forever in happiness.



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How is the last generation different?

How is the last generation different from every other generation according to Watchtower teaching? For every other generation the two roads are reversed. The broad road is now the one that leads to paradise earth and almost every single person that lived and died was on that broad road leading to paradise. Everyone on the broad road qualifies for a resurrection on paradise earth. It matters not whether the person lived for God or if they exercised their free will to live for themselves, as long as they lived and died before the last generation they will find themselves following the broad road into paradise - no questions asked!
But what of the narrow road? How is the narrow road different for all previous generations than it is for the last generation? This narrow road for past generations became the road that leads to eternal destruction and only a few in number, in comparison to the billions on the broad road, found their way onto the narrow road. Those who found it will never experience a resurrection. They will never get a chance to see paradise on earth. They are wiped out from God's memory and will never receive a second chance for life as everyone else receives.



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Who are the ones who are lost?

Who are the unfortunate souls who found themselves on that dreaded narrow road that leads to destruction? They were people who became Jehovah's Witnesses from the time the Watchtower first started preaching the end of the world message. These formerly faithful Jehovah's Witnesses originally believed the message of the Watchtower that the end was just around the corner, but after living through one failed prophecy after another, they abandoned their faith in the Watchtower organization. The Watchtower brands such ones as apostates and deems them unfit to receive a resurrection. Since 1879 anyone who became a Jehovah's Witness but who left the Watchtower is on that narrow road to destruction. They are the only ones from previous generations who will not receive a resurrection.
What a shame! Since everyone who was preached to by the Watchtower from 1879 to the very early 1900's is dead and gone, the only lasting effect the Watchtower managed to have for that generation was to create a way for some to lose out on paradise. If you take the Watchtower's doctrine to its logical conclusion, the generation of the late 1800's and early 1900's would have been better off never having heard the message of the Watchtower. Everyone who didn't hear the message is guaranteed life in paradise. But for those who heard and believed but who became disillusioned, the Watchtower became to them a stench of death.



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Who is 'in' and who is 'out' of paradise earth?

Now let's summarize from the Watchtower's teachings to find the three groups of people who will be 'in' paradise and the three groups who are 'out'


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Those who will receive life, the 'in' group are:



1. Every person who never became a Jehovah's Witness and who dies before Armageddon will receive a second chance.

2. Every current Jehovah's Witness who is worthy enough to merit everlasting life will go into paradise.

3. Every practicing Jehovah's Witness who dies before Armageddon will receive a second chance no matter how worthy they are.



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Those who will not receive life, the 'out' group:



1. Every non-Jehovah's Witness living at the time that Armageddon occurs will die. They will not receive a second chance for life.

2. Every Jehovah's Witness alive at the time that Armageddon occurs but who is not considered worthy enough will be killed and will not receive a second chance at life.

3. Every Jehovah's Witness who has left the organization and who subsequently dies will not receive a second chance for life.

The difference between the will's and the will not's, according to the Watchtower, is dependent on when you were born and when you died. If you lived and died anytime up until 1879 you are in. If you lived and died after 1879 you are probably in - as long as you didn't subscribe to the Watchtower's message. That way you didn't have a chance to become an apostate and end up on that dreaded narrow road. If you live in the last generation, you are almost certainly out. Only a relatively small number of worthy Jehovah's Witnesses will go into paradise alive.



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When will the last Generation be over?



Are we finally in the Generation of the end? The Watchtower says "yes' and is now pointing to 2005 as the end of the Generation of the Anointed that started in 1935. 1935 was the year that the Watchtower announced that the final number of the 144,000 anointed class was completed. 1935 was also was the start of a class of Jehovah's Witnesses who had the hope of entering into the new paradise earth alive without dying. In the Watchtower October 1, 1997 page 23 they say, In 1935 we came to understand that the "great crowd" was not a secondary heavenly class. We learned that it instead represents a class that survives the great tribulation and has the opportunity of living forever in Paradise on earth. (Revelation 7:9-14) With this new understanding, some who had partaken of the Memorial emblems realized that theirs was an earthly hope, and they discontinued partaking.
Never before had the Watchtower given this earthly hope. This generation of people, starting with the Watchtower's announcement in 1935, was the one designated to survive Armageddon and walk into the new earth alive. It has now been well over 60 years since the anointed class has been preaching to this special generation of Watchtower survivors. The September 15, 1997 Watchtower page 14 and 15 says, And for over 60 years now, God has been using these anointed ones to spearhead the work of making disciples of people to whom he has given the wonderful hope of life eternal on a paradise earth. The Watchtower's anointed class is preaching its last message to a generation which is quickly coming to a close. No wonder Jehovah's Witnesses who have longed for the end for so long have accepted this message with a renewed excitement. This is the end of a long line of predictions from the Society and the last chance for the 1935 generation of Watchtower survivors to enter into paradise alive.

The June 15, 2002 Watchtower page 3 says boldly, "A New World Within a Single Generation". They go on to pose this question, Can we realistically expect to see the hoped-for "new world within a single generation"?... The Bible points to that prospect... And from pages 6 & 7, His appointed time for direct action to rid the earth of all oppression and injustice lies in the near future... Soon, on a cleansed paradise earth, they will experience complete freedom from all injustice and suffering..." Many stunning steps forward" have been made in humanitarian efforts to help oppressed humanity... Yet, the most stunning step will be the imminent intervention by Christ Jesus and his associate rulers in the heavenly Kingdom government.

When will this generation of the end be over? The Bible points to a 70 year period of time that is considered the maximum span of a Biblical 'generation'. Since The Watchtower is now pointing to 1935 as the start of the final generation, 1935 plus 70 years equals 2005. New Light? In 1935 the final countdown began!

The Watchtower is betting one last time that the Generation of the Anointed the end of the chosen ones whose numbers were completed in 1935, and the great crowd which also started in 1935 will be the last generation. The Watchtower Jan 15, 2000 pg 13 says, Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller. Yet, referring to the great tribulation, Jesus stated: "Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short." (Matthew 24:21,22) Evidently, then, some of Christ's "chosen ones" will still be on Earth when the great tribulation begins.

And pay attention to the Watchtower's words concerning how the great crowd can be considered worthy to survive Armageddon: Those who do good things for Jesus' "brothers" because these anointed ones are his followers have the hope of surviving "the day of Jehovah." See the Watchtower, September 15, 1997 page 17.



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Let's summarize these statements and give our conclusions:



Some of the anointed will be on the earth when Armageddon begins. You qualify to have the hope of surviving Armageddon depending on how you treat these anointed ones. The anointed class ended in 1935. The great crowd class that is to go into paradise earth alive after surviving Armageddon started in 1935.
Those born in 1935 will be 70 in 2005. Those born in 1935 will be 70 in 2005. And of the anointed class - a young anointed individual 20 years of age in 1935 will be 90 in 2005. The generation of the anointed runs out of time by the farthest stretch of the imagination by 2005 and the youngest of the generation of the great crowd who were given the new hope of surviving Armageddon will be at least 70 years old in 2005. Time is quickly running out!

Jehovah's Witnesses are even taking the Watchtower's reasoning and expanding on it to argue that the 70 years from 1935 to 2005 relates to the creation of Eve.

The Watchtower says that we don't know how long Adam lived prior to the creation of Eve. The delay in the date of Eve's creation was the Watchtower's reason for why Armageddon didn't occur in 1975. Jehovah's

Witnesses are now speculating that since the Society draws a parallel between Adam and Jesus, and since Jesus started to prepare his "wife" (the 144,000 Anointed class) at the age of 30, there is a possibility that Adam also received his wife at the age of 30. Since 1975 marked 6000 years from the creation of Adam, that would point to 2005 as the end of 6000 years from the creation of Eve. The seventh 1,000 years is Jehovah's rest day and is just around the corner according to the Watchtower's calculations.



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The Generation of the Anointed is about to expire



Are we really in the last generation that will terminate by 2005? Every one of the previous expiry dates given by the Watchtower has already gone bad, and we can be sure that this date too will come and go. Soon the Watchtower will once again be forced to change the 'due date' of the last generation.


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Did God make a mistake or did the Watchtower insert themselves into God's Word?


Did you ever wonder why God sent the message of the last generation to the Watchtower a hundred years too early? Why did he send it to a people who were all going to make it into paradise anyway because they were all going to die? Did he really send the Watchtower with this message for a dead generation? Or is it possible that the early Watchtower leaders were wrong about themselves being part of the last generation, wrong about a God who discriminates between the living and the dead and wrong about being picked in 1878 and again in 1919 as the only faithful and wise servant dispensing spiritual food? If they are wrong about these things, what else are they be wrong about?

Non-Trinitarian
January 5th 2004, 02:06 PM
This article doesn't really even deserve to be addressed and I'm not going to delve into this subject right now but I will point out some lies listed here. Then once you see where the author of this article has lied and stretched the truth, you can decide what else of his to believe.



[b]The Last Generation
The Watchtower's newest light that points to the end by the year 2005


C Schatz MM Outreach

http://www.jwinfoline.com


The Watchtower's newest light that points to the end by the year 2005


Nowhere has the WB&TS ever said anything about 2005 being the end. Unless you have a direct quote from our publications, we have our first lie.


Are we finally in the Generation of the end? The Watchtower says "yes' and is now pointing to 2005 as the end of the Generation of the Anointed that started in 1935.

Same lie repeated again. Show where JW's are pointing to 2005


When will this generation of the end be over? The Bible points to a 70 year period of time that is considered the maximum span of a Biblical 'generation'. Since The Watchtower is now pointing to 1935 as the start of the final generation, 1935 plus 70 years equals 2005. New Light? In 1935 the final countdown began!


This is not a JW teaching, it's yours.



Some of the anointed will be on the earth when Armageddon begins. You qualify to have the hope of surviving Armageddon depending on how you treat these anointed ones. The anointed class ended in 1935. The great crowd class that is to go into paradise earth alive after surviving Armageddon started in 1935.
Those born in 1935 will be 70 in 2005. Those born in 1935 will be 70 in 2005. And of the anointed class - a young anointed individual 20 years of age in 1935 will be 90 in 2005. The generation of the anointed runs out of time by the farthest stretch of the imagination by 2005 and the youngest of the generation of the great crowd who were given the new hope of surviving Armageddon will be at least 70 years old in 2005. Time is quickly running out!

Time is quickly running out but nowhere do JW's say it is 2005.


Jehovah's Witnesses are even taking the Watchtower's reasoning and expanding on it to argue that the 70 years from 1935 to 2005 relates to the creation of Eve.


Maybe in your own mind. Where do JW's teach this?


The Watchtower says that we don't know how long Adam lived prior to the creation of Eve. The delay in the date of Eve's creation was the Watchtower's reason for why Armageddon didn't occur in 1975.
Show us one quote that states this.


Jehovah's Witnesses are now speculating that since the Society draws a parallel between Adam and Jesus, and since Jesus started to prepare his "wife" (the 144,000 Anointed class) at the age of 30, there is a possibility that Adam also received his wife at the age of 30.

Since you don't back any of this up, I can only assume you are making it up.


Since 1975 marked 6000 years from the creation of Adam, that would point to 2005 as the end of 6000 years from the creation of Eve. The seventh 1,000 years is Jehovah's rest day and is just around the corner according to the Watchtower's calculations.


To all reading this, this is NOT a JW calculation. This is this person's calculations and apparently honsety is not at the top of his priorities. It's okay if you disagree with the teaching of a religion but why lie about what they teach? It certainly doesn't honor God.


Are we really in the last generation that will terminate by 2005? Every one of the previous expiry dates given by the Watchtower has already gone bad, and we can be sure that this date too will come and go. Soon the Watchtower will once again be forced to change the 'due date' of the last generation.


Since the WT never said or even hinted at 2005, I don't think they'll have to change anything next year.

AV Metro, I, thus far, have held you to a higer standard than this clown. Please be cautious about spreading mis-information. Go to www.watchtower.org and search for our beliefs. You won't find anything about 2005. I do agree that early JW's got it wrong at times. But early Christians and Church Fathers also spoke as if the end was near. Even today most religions (barring Preterists) believe we are in the last days. Perhaps 100 years from now Preterists will be making fun of all of us. (though I doubt it) If people have a problem with our understanding, that's one thing. But to make up lies, that's a whole different ball game.

Origen
January 8th 2004, 11:37 AM
Non-Trin:

I don't recall Church Fathers specifically pointing to dates and placing their utmost confidence in them. WTBTS has a history littered with prophecies telling their members to have more faith in them than "Noah and the Flood" - 1914, 1925, 1975, etc. etc.

- Origen -

Non-Trinitarian
January 8th 2004, 01:02 PM
Today @ 03:37 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=367936#post367936)
Origen:

Non-Trin:

I don't recall Church Fathers specifically pointing to dates and placing their utmost confidence in them. WTBTS has a history littered with prophecies telling their members to have more faith in them than "Noah and the Flood" - 1914, 1925, 1975, etc. etc.

- Origen -

I agree that the WB&TS has made some statements that probably should not have been made, especially in the early part of the last century. I know for a fact they NEVER said the end would come in 1975 and warned the readers of the Watchtower magazine to not be saying as much either since Jesus said no one knows the day and hour. They did think it would be possible for the end to come then since, according to their calculations, that would mark the 6,000 years of man's history. But they said that this did not mean the end would actually come in 1975.

They were eager for the return of Christ and incorrectly understood some things, but so have many other religions as well. I don't have a problem with discussing the incorrect understanding JW's had in regards to these dates, it's the out and out lies that bother me, as the above article demonstrates.

What do you mean by 'having more faith in them than in Noah and the flood'?

dizzle
January 10th 2004, 10:56 PM
Perhaps 100 years from now Preterists will be making fun of all of us.

No we make fun of you now.

Non-Trinitarian
January 12th 2004, 09:15 AM
Yesterday @ 02:56 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=371904#post371904)
Dee Dee Warren:



No we make fun of you now.

LOL

I appreciate the humor Dee Dee!

dizzle
January 12th 2004, 09:24 AM
A little levity can help. We can almost violently disagree on doctrine but at the end of the day, unless the person has proven themselves to be a total scoundrel which is very rare, we must remember that people are more than doctrines, and try to keep things from becoming personal. Humor can help.

Origen
January 20th 2004, 11:21 AM
Non-Trin:

Sorry I am taking so long to respond, I have been swamped with stuff to do.

I need to grab some of my JW documents and make an intelligent post, I'm just really busy.

You'll be hearing from me soon!

Thanks for understanding,
Origen

Stan Covell
January 27th 2004, 02:55 AM
I am posting this from another forum being it relates to the topic and is a bit more researched than the article on McGregor Ministries. The added feature below the 2005 article about Bible Scholars, I found interesting.
I agree with Non-Trin that I have not heard of a JW that has actually espoused that 2005 will be the end of this system. The problem I see with the Watchtower is the same problems they have had in the past with related date setting or mentioning dates and expectations taught, that are eventually postponed. Proverbs 13:12 NWT

Stan
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I received the 6/15/02 Watchtower in the mail today.
For those that do not know, 2005 is the new predicted end date for this "system of things."
Reference:
http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/2005.htm

Reborn2002




quote:


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*** Watchtower 1997 September 15 pp.10-15 Will You Be Faithful Like Elijah? ***
10 Who, then, was this coming Elijah? His identity was revealed when Jesus Christ said: "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; and if you want to accept it, He himself is 'Elijah who is destined to come.'" Yes, John the Baptizer was the foretold counterpart of Elijah. (Matthew 11:12-14; Mark 9:11-13) An angel had told John's father, Zechariah, that John would have "Elijah's spirit and power" and would "get ready for Jehovah a prepared people." (Luke 1:17) The baptism John performed was a public symbol of an individual's repentance over his sins against the Law, which was to lead the Jews to Christ. (Luke 3:3-6; Galatians 3:24) John's work thus 'got a prepared people ready for Jehovah.'

11 The work of John the Baptizer as "Elijah" showed that a "day of Jehovah" was near. The nearness of that day when God would act against his enemies and preserve his people was also indicated by the apostle Peter. He pointed out that the miraculous events that took place at Pentecost of 33 C.E. were a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about the outpouring of God's spirit. Peter showed that this was to happen before "the great and illustrious day of Jehovah." (Acts 2:16-21; Joel 2:28-32) It was in 70 C.E. that Jehovah fulfilled his Word by causing the Roman armies to execute divine judgment upon the nation that rejected his Son.-Daniel 9:24-27; John 19:15.

12 However, there was more to come after 70 C.E. The apostle Paul associated a coming "day of Jehovah" with the presence of Jesus Christ. Moreover, the apostle Peter spoke of that day in connection with the yet future "new heavens and a new earth." (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2; 2 Peter 3:10-13) Bear in mind that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" came in 70 C.E. All of this taken together indicated that something further would take place as represented by the work that Elijah had done. What is that?

[...]

Be Faithful Like Elijah

21 With zeal like that of Elijah, the small remnant of genuine anointed Christians have discharged their responsibility of caring for the earthly interests of the enthroned King, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:47) And for over 60 years now, God has been using these anointed ones to spearhead the work of making disciples of people to whom he has given the wonderful hope of life eternal on a paradise earth. (Matthew 28:19, 20) How grateful these millions can be that the relatively few remaining anointed ones are zealously and faithfully caring for their responsibilities!

22 This Kingdom-preaching work has been accomplished by imperfect humans and only in the strength that Jehovah gives those who prayerfully rely on him. "Elijah was a man with feelings like ours," said the disciple James when citing the prophet's example of praying in order to show the force of a righteous man's prayer. (James 5:16-18) Elijah was not always prophesying or performing miracles. He had the same human feelings and weaknesses that we do, but he served God faithfully. Since we too have God's help and he strengthens us, we can be faithful like Elijah.

23 We have good reason for faithfulness and optimism. Remember that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" struck in 70 C.E. With Elijah's spirit and power, anointed Christians have done a similar God-given work throughout the earth. This clearly proves that the great "day of Jehovah" is near.

*** Watchtower 1997 October 1 p.23 Grateful for a Long Life in Jehovah's Service ***
Confident in Kingdom Hope

In 1935 we came to understand that the "great crowd" was not a secondary heavenly class. We learned that it instead represents a class that survives the great tribulation and has the opportunity of living forever in Paradise on earth. (Revelation 7:9-14) With this new understanding, some who had partaken of the Memorial emblems realized that theirs was an earthly hope, and they discontinued partaking.


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For those that thought the failed prophecies for 1840, 1872, 1874,
1878, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975 would be enough to make the Writing Department for the WTBTS hesitate predicting impending doom.. proceed.

Check out the very cover of the Watchtower magazine. In big, bold letters it is entitled:

quote:


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Mankind's Problems Soon to End!

[Complete with exclamation mark and a capitalized Soon and End]


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Reading on into the article it has a subheading on the first page entitled:

quote:


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"A New World Within a Single Generation"


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Of interesting note is the last paragraph on page 3, which states:

quote:


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Can we realistically expect to see the hoped-for "new world within a single generation"? While current humanitarian efforts are truly commendable, surely it makes sense to consider another prospect for a just and peaceful new world. The Bible points to that prospect, as the next article will consider.
[Bold to highlight relevant points]


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So in the context of the English used, combined with the next article entitled:

quote:


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Mankind's Problems Soon to End!


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which contains this interesting tidbit:

quote:


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WT 6/15/2002 pg 6

His appointed time for direct action to rid the earth of all oppression and injustice lies in the near future.

WT 6/15/2002 pg 7

Soon, on a cleansed paradise earth, they will experience complete freedom from all injustice and suffering.

WT 6/15/2002 pg 7

Yet, the most stunning step will be the imminent intervention by Christ Jesus and his associate rulers in the heavenly Kingdom government. They will address completely all the root causes of conflict and all the other evils that beset us. They will bring an end to all of mankind's problems.


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So my friends, the Gloom and Doom tactics continue. Keeping the Rank & File in a frenzy is the only way they can resolve slacking numbers.

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Also of note, while reading one of the Watchtower study articles in the same magazine, I noticed another example of glaring hypocrisy.

It was mentioned briefly before in a different post, but I wished to address it.



quote:


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WT 6/15/2002 pg 15 paragraph 16

During your study, avoid the approach of many so-called Bible scholars. They focus excessively on analyzing texts as if the Bible were of human origin. Some of them try to fix a distinct audience for each book or to conjure up an objective and supposed viewpoint that a human author of each book had in mind.

WT 6/15/2002 pg 15 paragraph 17

Are the scholar's conclusions even valid?




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So as you can see, the WTBTS goes out of it's way to discredit any Bible scholars NOT affiliated with the WTBTS Writing Department.

If you return to paragraph 15 of the same study article.. youll find:



quote:


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WT 6/15/2002 paragraph 15

Some who have already met the goal of reading the whole Bible take the other steps to make their ongoing study increasingly productive and rewarding. One way is to include selected study material prior to reading each successive Bible book. In "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial" and "Insight on the Scriptures", one can find excellent information about the historical setting, style, and potential benefits of each Bible book.




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Is this not blatant hypocrisy and a biased viewpoint? How frigging blind do you have to be not to see that? They discredit EVERY other Bible scholar and in the very previous paragraph suggest using their literature as Bible supplements, as if they are the only authority on Bible scholar information.

So let me get this straight:



quote:


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WT 6/15/2002 pg 15 paragraph 16

During your study, avoid the approach of many so-called Bible scholars. They focus excessively on analyzing texts as if the Bible were of human origin. Some of them try to fix a distinct audience for each book or to conjure up an objective and supposed viewpoint that a human author of each book had in mind.

AND

WT 6/15/2002 pg 15 paragraph 17

Are the scholar's conclusions even valid?




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then..

quote:


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WT 6/15/2002 paragraph 15

Some who have already met the goal of reading the whole Bible take the other steps to make their ongoing study increasingly productive and rewarding. One way is to include selected study material prior to reading each successive Bible book. In "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial" and "Insight on the Scriptures", one can find excellent information about the historical setting, style, and potential benefits of each Bible book.




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It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion.
WT 11/15/1963 page 688 paragraph 3

kofh2u
January 29th 2004, 02:04 AM
Every generation of the faithful have longed to be that special generation which would not pass until the Second Coming.

I do not see the evil in wishing it were so. But, we are told that it is the evil who will scoff, and question whether he comes at all, in that he tarries to this moment.

Consider that Christianity depends upon the new proselytes in each future generation. The whole Christian movement has restructured itself throughout 2000 years or 30 generations... the former generation introducing the next as best as it might.

The errors have always been included with the truth, the tares among the wheat. Consider our friends and faithful Seven Day Adventist, they too concur that the moment is at hand.


"While William Miller was not directly associated with the formation of the present Church of the Seven Day Adventists, they trace their roots to faith in his argument.

He had predicted the appearance of the “Expected One.” Using the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation, Miller set 1844 as the date for the appearance of the Christian Messiah.

The crowd of people (@100,000) whom his words excited, thought a person was coming. They sold all worldly goods, and, in anticipation, many gave away their goods, settled their accounts, and disposed of their property.

When the mystery of the prophecy did not end as they believed it should, vast numbers lost all interest in Adventism. Those who continued to believe that Miller had correctly calculated the event, reevaluated what he had said. They looked at the implied meanings.

The reinterpretation, by those Adventist still intent and remaining convinced Miller was correct, said that the prediction meant a "spiritual entering into" of The Most Holy of Holies. Jesus would not have actually come physical at that time.

Furthering their previous miscalculations, they awaited a calculated date, @1930 , for the “coming out” of the Messiah from thismheavenly sanctuary. No further revisions seem to have been made by the Adventist to this date.

Yet, where is he?

My answer is in the form of an astronomical analogy: (remember, I say, ASTRO_NOMICAL)

Miller’s date, 1843-44 AD, was right on target, as I see it.

The announced discovery, in 1844-5, of the previously unknown planet, Neptune, “ corresponds amazingly well with Miller's calculation... if you can buy into Rev22:16, "I am the morning star."

With the discovery of that new "God" (mythologically, speaking) in the heavens, the previously unseen planet, Neptune, Matt 24:30 seems wierdly enough fulfiled, does it not... "then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man?”

And, that new date, having not recognized this connection between the planet and the coming to our attention as regards 1844-5, the second date of the Seven Day Adventists, (1930), corresponds with the discovery of Pluto!

Together, these (3) three, once invisible, planets (to include Uranus, discovered in 1799) represents a celestial trinity!

In this, Daniel is justified, as are the Seven Day Adventist. You can't argue with there success, or will you?

If no one noticed this link between Daniel and these recent astronomy discoveries, it was because the ancient widespread belief in Astrology had long been eliminated... just as predicted in Rev 6:12-17.

The Adventist, and all other Christians, ignored this as "the Sign of the Son"... even though they were astronomical events, because astology had become too taboo to even mention.

Yet, Revelation plainly states of Jesus, "I am the morning star."

barryrob
September 22nd 2004, 04:41 AM
Non-Trin:

I don't recall Church Fathers specifically pointing to dates and placing their utmost confidence in them. WTBTS has a history littered with prophecies telling their members to have more faith in them than "Noah and the Flood" - 1914, 1925, 1975, etc. etc.

- Origen -
Please try http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37539

Barryrob

barryrob
September 22nd 2004, 04:44 AM
I am posting this from another forum being it relates to the topic and is a bit more researched than the article on McGregor Ministries. The added feature below the 2005 article about Bible Scholars, I found interesting.
I agree with Non-Trin that I have not heard of a JW that has actually espoused that 2005 will be the end of this system. The problem I see with the Watchtower is the same problems they have had in the past with related date setting or mentioning dates and expectations taught, that are eventually postponed. Proverbs 13:12 NWT

Stan
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I received the 6/15/02 Watchtower in the mail today.
For those that do not know, 2005 is the new predicted end date for this "system of things."
Reference:
http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/2005.htm

Reborn2002




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*** Watchtower 1997 September 15 pp.10-15 Will You Be Faithful Like Elijah? ***
10 Who, then, was this coming Elijah? His identity was revealed when Jesus Christ said: "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; and if you want to accept it, He himself is 'Elijah who is destined to come.'" Yes, John the Baptizer was the foretold counterpart of Elijah. (Matthew 11:12-14; Mark 9:11-13) An angel had told John's father, Zechariah, that John would have "Elijah's spirit and power" and would "get ready for Jehovah a prepared people." (Luke 1:17) The baptism John performed was a public symbol of an individual's repentance over his sins against the Law, which was to lead the Jews to Christ. (Luke 3:3-6; Galatians 3:24) John's work thus 'got a prepared people ready for Jehovah.'

11 The work of John the Baptizer as "Elijah" showed that a "day of Jehovah" was near. The nearness of that day when God would act against his enemies and preserve his people was also indicated by the apostle Peter. He pointed out that the miraculous events that took place at Pentecost of 33 C.E. were a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about the outpouring of God's spirit. Peter showed that this was to happen before "the great and illustrious day of Jehovah." (Acts 2:16-21; Joel 2:28-32) It was in 70 C.E. that Jehovah fulfilled his Word by causing the Roman armies to execute divine judgment upon the nation that rejected his Son.-Daniel 9:24-27; John 19:15.

12 However, there was more to come after 70 C.E. The apostle Paul associated a coming "day of Jehovah" with the presence of Jesus Christ. Moreover, the apostle Peter spoke of that day in connection with the yet future "new heavens and a new earth." (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2; 2 Peter 3:10-13) Bear in mind that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" came in 70 C.E. All of this taken together indicated that something further would take place as represented by the work that Elijah had done. What is that?

[...]

Be Faithful Like Elijah

21 With zeal like that of Elijah, the small remnant of genuine anointed Christians have discharged their responsibility of caring for the earthly interests of the enthroned King, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:47) And for over 60 years now, God has been using these anointed ones to spearhead the work of making disciples of people to whom he has given the wonderful hope of life eternal on a paradise earth. (Matthew 28:19, 20) How grateful these millions can be that the relatively few remaining anointed ones are zealously and faithfully caring for their responsibilities!

22 This Kingdom-preaching work has been accomplished by imperfect humans and only in the strength that Jehovah gives those who prayerfully rely on him. "Elijah was a man with feelings like ours," said the disciple James when citing the prophet's example of praying in order to show the force of a righteous man's prayer. (James 5:16-18) Elijah was not always prophesying or performing miracles. He had the same human feelings and weaknesses that we do, but he served God faithfully. Since we too have God's help and he strengthens us, we can be faithful like Elijah.

23 We have good reason for faithfulness and optimism. Remember that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" struck in 70 C.E. With Elijah's spirit and power, anointed Christians have done a similar God-given work throughout the earth. This clearly proves that the great "day of Jehovah" is near.

*** Watchtower 1997 October 1 p.23 Grateful for a Long Life in Jehovah's Service ***
Confident in Kingdom Hope

In 1935 we came to understand that the "great crowd" was not a secondary heavenly class. We learned that it instead represents a class that survives the great tribulation and has the opportunity of living forever in Paradise on earth. (Revelation 7:9-14) With this new understanding, some who had partaken of the Memorial emblems realized that theirs was an earthly hope, and they discontinued partaking.


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For those that thought the failed prophecies for 1840, 1872, 1874,
1878, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975 would be enough to make the Writing Department for the WTBTS hesitate predicting impending doom.. proceed.

Check out the very cover of the Watchtower magazine. In big, bold letters it is entitled:

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Mankind's Problems Soon to End!

[Complete with exclamation mark and a capitalized Soon and End]


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Reading on into the article it has a subheading on the first page entitled:

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"A New World Within a Single Generation"


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Of interesting note is the last paragraph on page 3, which states:

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Can we realistically expect to see the hoped-for "new world within a single generation"? While current humanitarian efforts are truly commendable, surely it makes sense to consider another prospect for a just and peaceful new world. The Bible points to that prospect, as the next article will consider.
[Bold to highlight relevant points]


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So in the context of the English used, combined with the next article entitled:

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Mankind's Problems Soon to End!


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which contains this interesting tidbit:

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WT 6/15/2002 pg 6

His appointed time for direct action to rid the earth of all oppression and injustice lies in the near future.

WT 6/15/2002 pg 7

Soon, on a cleansed paradise earth, they will experience complete freedom from all injustice and suffering.

WT 6/15/2002 pg 7

Yet, the most stunning step will be the imminent intervention by Christ Jesus and his associate rulers in the heavenly Kingdom government. They will address completely all the root causes of conflict and all the other evils that beset us. They will bring an end to all of mankind's problems.


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So my friends, the Gloom and Doom tactics continue. Keeping the Rank & File in a frenzy is the only way they can resolve slacking numbers.

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Also of note, while reading one of the Watchtower study articles in the same magazine, I noticed another example of glaring hypocrisy.

It was mentioned briefly before in a different post, but I wished to address it.



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WT 6/15/2002 pg 15 paragraph 16

During your study, avoid the approach of many so-called Bible scholars. They focus excessively on analyzing texts as if the Bible were of human origin. Some of them try to fix a distinct audience for each book or to conjure up an objective and supposed viewpoint that a human author of each book had in mind.

WT 6/15/2002 pg 15 paragraph 17

Are the scholar's conclusions even valid?




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So as you can see, the WTBTS goes out of it's way to discredit any Bible scholars NOT affiliated with the WTBTS Writing Department.

If you return to paragraph 15 of the same study article.. youll find:



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WT 6/15/2002 paragraph 15

Some who have already met the goal of reading the whole Bible take the other steps to make their ongoing study increasingly productive and rewarding. One way is to include selected study material prior to reading each successive Bible book. In "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial" and "Insight on the Scriptures", one can find excellent information about the historical setting, style, and potential benefits of each Bible book.




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Is this not blatant hypocrisy and a biased viewpoint? How frigging blind do you have to be not to see that? They discredit EVERY other Bible scholar and in the very previous paragraph suggest using their literature as Bible supplements, as if they are the only authority on Bible scholar information.

So let me get this straight:



quote:


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WT 6/15/2002 pg 15 paragraph 16

During your study, avoid the approach of many so-called Bible scholars. They focus excessively on analyzing texts as if the Bible were of human origin. Some of them try to fix a distinct audience for each book or to conjure up an objective and supposed viewpoint that a human author of each book had in mind.

AND

WT 6/15/2002 pg 15 paragraph 17

Are the scholar's conclusions even valid?




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then..

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WT 6/15/2002 paragraph 15

Some who have already met the goal of reading the whole Bible take the other steps to make their ongoing study increasingly productive and rewarding. One way is to include selected study material prior to reading each successive Bible book. In "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial" and "Insight on the Scriptures", one can find excellent information about the historical setting, style, and potential benefits of each Bible book.




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It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion.
WT 11/15/1963 page 688 paragraph 3

Please try http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37539

Barryrob