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JP holds to the thesis that she wasn't sacrificed, but devoted to a life of temple service which would mean she was a virgin for her entire life
http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jepthah.php <-- page has an error at the moment.
Last edited by Raphael; 04-15-2014, 08:47 PM.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Having said that, Paul Copan indicates that most scholars do hold that it was a literal human sacrifice."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostSaying that it was "temple service" basically assumes that God approves of nuns, and I disagree with that premise. Further, there's just nothing in the text to support it."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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The only vows that God accepted are found in Numbers 6 and Leviticus 27. Do not add to his word, lest you be found a liar. They all involve giving something to God, not taking something from yourself for its own sake. And at least indirectly, they all relate in some way to killing animals, strongly suggesting that they are no longer applicable anyway.
1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Deuteronomy 23
1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 7
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
1 Corinthians 9
5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Timothy 5
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostThe point is that these Catholic sympathizers try to use the "virginity" of Jephthah's daughter to advocate the vow of celibacy. The Bible makes it clear that Samuel both worked in the tabernacle, and had sons.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostThe only vows that God accepted are found in Numbers 6 and Leviticus 27. Do not add to his word, lest you be found a liar. They all involve giving something to God, not taking something from yourself for its own sake. And at least indirectly, they all relate in some way to killing animals, strongly suggesting that they are no longer applicable anyway.
1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Deuteronomy 23
1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 7
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
1 Corinthians 9
5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Timothy 5
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
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Originally posted by Bad PigI'm sure JP will be thrilled to learn he's a Catholic sympathizer.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostThe only vows that God accepted are found in Numbers 6 and Leviticus 27. Do not add to his word, lest you be found a liar. They all involve giving something to God, not taking something from yourself for its own sake. And at least indirectly, they all relate in some way to killing animals, strongly suggesting that they are no longer applicable anyway.
1 Timothy 4
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Deuteronomy 23
1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 7
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
1 Corinthians 9
5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
1 Timothy 5
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostHe also promotes works-salvation with his "Semitic Totality Concept" salvation.
And I would not exactly call him Orthodox on the doctrine of hell. Not my ideal theologian.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
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Originally posted by Bad PigThe word "women" is not in the Greek, but is supplied for clarity. However, the whole passage is talking about widows specifically, not women in general. Most translations, like the NASB you also approve, have "widows" there.
It takes a certain amount of chutzpah to invoke a passage that begins, "It is good for a man not to touch a woman" against the idea of voluntary celibacy.
This has nothing to do with marriage, and nobody is advocating that monastics mutilate themselves first.
Everything in the Mosaic Covenant related at least indirectly in some way to killing animals.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostSo only widows should avoid becoming nuns?
How is it voluntary if they're under bondage? What is the point of the vow, if it's "voluntary"?
Didn't one of the holy "Church Fathers" do just that?
Anyway, the point is that standing in the way of marriage is a pagan concept.
It would be my position that all vows, which were implemented to support the aaronic temple priesthood, are now invalid because the Bible classifies all new testament believers as priests. But that is a side issue to this discussion. The point is that even the old testament law, under which Jephthah operated, did not allow for vows of celibacy. So the idea proposed in JP Holding's video is incorrect.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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