How Do Atheists Cope Without A God?

[EvoUK]

Having heard many theists comment on the supposed “futility” of atheism, I thought I might address it here.

I did have a quote taken from a thread in here, but having re-read the forum rules, I don’t think I can post it without making it seem as though I am discussing a particular member, rather than a common idea. If I’m wrong in this, could a mod let me know?

It mostly occurs in two main forms- a question, along the lines of “what’s the point of living if there’s no god/afterlife?”, and a personal incredulity- along the lines of “I don’t know how they can do it” etc.

Firstly, I think I’ll ignore the fact that this is an emotional argument having no bearing on the factualness of either belief or lack thereof, and instead concentrate on why this is such a common thought among theists.

I (and most other people on this board for that matter), have been around atheists for most of my life, and have communicated with many over the Internet. I have found that there is no correlation between lack of belief in a god, and a feeling of personal futility.

So, where does this come from? I’m aware that those with strongly held beliefs, like most of the theists on here, have a hard time imagining a life where they didn’t belief (I, myself only know what it is like to believe in a god due to being theist once, I don’t doubt life-long atheists have a hard time imagining it).

Could this explain this line of thinking? Am I the only one who doesn't think that life has no meaning, that everything is hopeless and there’s no justice in the world? I don’t think that I am, but then perhaps I always was a bit of an idealist…

No, I don’t think there is an ultimate, absolute meaning to life in the philosophical sense, but rather that it’s subjective. Many choose to subjectively believe that their god provides meaning, many don’t.

No, I do not think there is no “justice” after death, as I don’t believe in an afterlife. We have a system where people get punished in this life- although I’d be the first to agree that it’s not flawless. I don’t see this as a valid reason to believe in an afterlife though… :huh:

can anyone else think of reasons why this system of thought prevails, despite the clear evidence to the contrary?

perhaps i'm reading it wrong, perhaps it's more a personal sense of incredulity, rather than a positive statement about the worldviews of atheists.

any thoughts?

[Vorkosigan]

Like your quote there says, as a lifelong athiest/skeptic, since the age of 11 or 12, I have no idea what it is like to believe in gods or the supernatural.

As for idealism, I think a lot depends on how you are raised and what experiences you have, and how much control you feel you have over outcomes affecting you.

[Bob Jenkins]

How Do Atheists Cope Without A God?

This one does just fine, thank you. Maybe the aging process has something to do with my sangfroid

[Trout]

Bob Jenkins:

How Do Atheists Cope Without A God?

This one does just fine, thank you. Maybe the aging process has something to do with my sangfroid

How old do you have to be to get your own sangfroid?

I thought an agressive antibiotic series would eliminate a case of the sangfroids?

[Bob Jenkins]

Today @ 12:30 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=372603#post372603)
troutk13:



How old do you have to be to get your own sangfroid?

The age where enough experience seems to make a difference.

I thought an agressive antibiotic series would eliminate a case of the sangfroids?

It's a long development, but sangfroid bug developes an immunity to the agressive antibiotics that would "cure" it

I answered in light-hearted jest but I gently remind you, trout, that participation in this forum is not for the beleiver. I would make exceptions to the rules for honest and playful inquiries but I don't think that is even allowed. But please read on!

[BeHereNow]

I think the claim that "life has no meaning without God" comes from our western perspective moreso than from the religion itself, although the two are intertwined.

Buddhists are considered atheists, yet they find meaning in life through the concept of a circle representing fullness rather than zero, or emptiness.

I daresay most westerners have something in their life that they consider to be of such great value, that without this, their life would be empty. Maybe it's their health, their spouse, their career, their religious idols. I think that if I lost my hands or my feet, I'd lose the will to live, just as some think if they lose their belief in God, they'd lose the will to live.

In answer to your Thread Title question, I've never looked at life as in need of "coping". A life that must be coped with is not much of a life, after all, but more a matter of simple existence, such as wild animals have. We all have things that get our engines going, and I think those are the things we live for, the reason we wake up in the morning, so to speak. For me, personally, it's curiosity - I'm a little kitty. All forms of learning and observation really make life worth it to me.

[EvoUK]

In answer to your Thread Title question, I've never looked at life as in need of "coping".

i see what you mean, however, that was not how i meant the title to be taken- though it's probably not obvious.

it was literally taken from a question posed to me by a christian recently, so i used it here. from his perspective, without a god (specifically, his god), i would be "coping" by definition.

does it make more sense now?

[Jake]

The way I look at it, if this world is all there is, how much more precious does our time on it become? I simply cannot understand the argument that no afterlife means despair and nihilism. I take it to mean don't waste the time you have.

Anyway, speaking of which, this is probably going to be one of my last posts here, at least for the forseeable future. I'm in the final year of my degree and fighting to keep my head above water what with work and beer and all. TWeb is proving too much of a distraction and I have to draw the line. Ive had some interesting conversations over the last couple of months, keep it up :smile:

see ya,
Jake

[Ryokan]

I don't know. The idea of death and oblivion does scare me, I'll be honest. But how do I go on? What else am I gonna do? Make paper mache rabbits?:bunny:

[BeHereNow]

EvoUK:

i see what you mean, however, that was not how i meant the title to be taken- though it's probably not obvious.

it was literally taken from a question posed to me by a christian recently, so i used it here. from his perspective, without a god (specifically, his god), i would be "coping" by definition.

does it make more sense now?

Oh, I did not think you meant that, EvoUK, I read your OP. I was just stating my opinion of that assertion.

:thumb:

[EvoUK]

BeHereNow:

Oh, I did not think you meant that, EvoUK, I read your OP. I was just stating my opinion of that assertion

perhaps i should have put cope in inverted commas...

ah well...

:teeth:

[EvoUK]

Jake:

I'm in the final year of my degree and fighting to keep my head above water what with work and beer and all. TWeb is proving too much of a distraction and I have to draw the line.

no worries mate, come back if and when you can- good luck (not that i assume you need it or anything :teeth: )

[wattsr1]

A good posting EvoUK.

Having heard many discussions by counselors, ministers and other health professionals on the issue of religious faith and its necessity for living life, dying and death, the answer to questions concerning the need for faith to help cope with problems in life and death always turn out to be in the negative.

It does appear that non-belief is as likely to carry you through as is belief.

A personal philosophy of some kind IS important as are the feelings of worth and living or having lived a satisfactory life.

As for what constitutes a satisfactory life? There are clues from some good books that are appearing on the book shelves these days. Adequate material goods (food, shelter and money) but not an over reliance on the material, good friends, being of a generous disposition, freedom, some sort of belief system or philosophy of life – all are part of the equation.

I heard an interview on our national broadcaster a couple of days ago where the interviewee said something like:- “As long as you are on your death bed, contented at the good life you have lived, while all others are around you weeping.”

Regards, Roland

[rdalin]

Having heard many theists comment on the supposed “futility” of atheism, I thought I might address it here.

I did have a quote taken from a thread in here, but having re-read the forum rules, I don’t think I can post it without making it seem as though I am discussing a particular member, rather than a common idea. If I’m wrong in this, could a mod let me know?

It mostly occurs in two main forms- a question, along the lines of “what’s the point of living if there’s no god/afterlife?”, and a personal incredulity- along the lines of “I don’t know how they can do it” etc.

Firstly, I think I’ll ignore the fact that this is an emotional argument having no bearing on the factualness of either belief or lack thereof, and instead concentrate on why this is such a common thought among theists.

I (and most other people on this board for that matter), have been around atheists for most of my life, and have communicated with many over the Internet. I have found that there is no correlation between lack of belief in a god, and a feeling of personal futility.

So, where does this come from? I’m aware that those with strongly held beliefs, like most of the theists on here, have a hard time imagining a life where they didn’t belief (I, myself only know what it is like to believe in a god due to being theist once, I don’t doubt life-long atheists have a hard time imagining it).

Could this explain this line of thinking? Am I the only one who doesn't think that life has no meaning, that everything is hopeless and there’s no justice in the world? I don’t think that I am, but then perhaps I always was a bit of an idealist…

No, I don’t think there is an ultimate, absolute meaning to life in the philosophical sense, but rather that it’s subjective. Many choose to subjectively believe that their god provides meaning, many don’t.

No, I do not think there is no “justice” after death, as I don’t believe in an afterlife. We have a system where people get punished in this life- although I’d be the first to agree that it’s not flawless. I don’t see this as a valid reason to believe in an afterlife though… :huh:

can anyone else think of reasons why this system of thought prevails, despite the clear evidence to the contrary?

perhaps i'm reading it wrong, perhaps it's more a personal sense of incredulity, rather than a positive statement about the worldviews of atheists.

any thoughts?I believe that life is what you make it. I have a loving wife, two sons, a daughter-in-law and two grandchildren, a brother, a father (my mother is dead), many friends and colleagues. I have interests and hobbies. I mostly enjoy myself. I hope I will leave the world a little better than it was when I was born. I think those who know me will miss me when I die. What more is there?

There may or may not be justice in the world. But, where's the justice for the horrible sinner who repents on his death bed and is welcomed into heaven, as some Christians have argued?

Theists may find it hard to imagine a world where they didn't believe. As a life-long atheist, I find it impossible to imagine a world where I do. The whole idea of supernatural gods and angels and worship and heaven and hell is so ridiculous to me that I sometimes suspect that everyone who claims to be a believer is putting me on, that it's really a big joke. I'll match my incredulity against a believer's any time.

As far as finding the point to living if there's no afterlife, I can't understand the point of an afterlife. As far as I can gather, it consists of an eternity spent worshipping god, and it's presented as a good thing. I'll pass, thanks.

[EvoUK]

Welcome to the forums rdalin! I hope you enjoy your stay, and have many an interesting conversation! :smile:

As far as finding the point to living if there's no afterlife, I can't understand the point of an afterlife. As far as I can gather, it consists of an eternity spent worshipping god, and it's presented as a good thing. I'll pass, thanks.

With regards to this bit, you might be interested in reading the following column:

http://fp.bio.utk.edu/skeptic/rationallyspeaking/RS02-05-meaning-life.html

But that is exactly the problem with eternity: if you’ve got all the time to do whatever it is that you can think of doing, you will exhaust any possible goal you can set for yourself. Then what? Then you'll find yourself in the same situation as one of the alien characters described in Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series (one of my favorite contemporary philosophical works). The alien in question happened to be immortal, a very unfortunate condition, which he coped with by inventing all sorts of ways to pass his endless time. At the moment he appears in the book, he is involved in the project of personally insulting every sentient organism in the universe in its own tongue. But, of course, it is a desperate (and meaningless) attempt to retard the inevitable: eventually, he'll run out of beings to insult, and out of insults to hurl at them.

The point was, arguably, already clear to Dante: his Comedy (in the sense of a play, not because it is particularly funny) is divided into three sections: Inferno (Hell), Purgatorio (Purgatory, you know, he was Catholic), and Paradiso (Heaven). While the latter should have been the most exciting place to be (after all, you get to spend the rest of eternity—a contradictory concept in itself—basking in the light of God), it was, by far, the dullest, with the Inferno as the place where the action is interesting and the characters are endlessly fascinating and, well, so human.

[rdalin]

Welcome to the forums rdalin! I hope you enjoy your stay, and have many an interesting conversation! :smile:Thanks for the welcome. Based on my experiences on other similar forums, I hope to entertain some, infuriate others, and possibly cause a few to think about things. My reactions to posts by others will probably be the same.


With regards to this bit, you might be interested in reading the following column:

http://fp.bio.utk.edu/skeptic/rationallyspeaking/RS02-05-meaning-life.htmlA very interesting column. I agree with it completely. Heaven has always sounded to me like the worst torture possible. At least in hell you have all of the interesting characters!

[EvoUK]

You might like to check out the apologetics forums for some mildly intelligent conversation, but the easiest way is to click the "new posts" button, so you can see which are the current active posts, from all the forums.

It usually ends up being slightly easier to keep track of things rather than using the forums themselves.

[kofh2u]

Hello people and good luck, jake.

I've read your postings. Interesting. And the question is a biggy, too.

According to Eric Ericson we "live" seven different lives, in a way.

Stages, Eric called them,... spiritual manifestations the ancient people saw them to be, and archetypocal mental mainfestations as I see them to be.

Each stage tends to obliterate the previous, leaving only independent and almost isolated sets of incidents, little scenarios of memory. Harfly can anyone recall 2nd grade, for example, unless a particularly good or bad occurence comes to mind. Little isolated flah backs.

In adolescence we recognize the "generation gap" with our parents, for instance.

At each stage, we are taken by the hand of the society in which we live, by means of seven "beasts" or awaiting institutions of enculturation. These I call beast because they are alive in the sense that they are dynamics, not rules. And, in that they live on, after we individually die. They transcend our lives, and they arise again in the generations which follow us.

That we hardly are advised concerning our own personal life stages, stumbling into one stage after the other, this is daunted by the enormous crimes against future generations and ourselves, too, in our ignorance of these seven invisible powers, power held by those institutionized "beasts."

We not only fail to see these beast at work, we fail to fully understand what role they play... think about this... they play a role in and with our lives.

And, they are impervious to most criticism, held fail safe against radical revision. Thry are and will be defended by priesthoods that rank in their heirarchial leadership. These are not necessarily priest concerned with a religious fanaticism. They are "priests" leaders or captains sitting in those seats of authority just for this purpose, perpetuity.

It is with this in mind that I suggest most people are asleep to their potential reality, their own life. They are hypnotically marching to drum beats of seven notes, the seven systems of things to which they insanely dance.

Changing things comes with the scriptural warning:

"There is no remission of sin (sociological) without the shedding of blood (blood of the prophet of change, the messenger)."

Jesus, Ghandi, Martin Luther King,Jr,...