When your faith is threatened, you are threatened

[Conductor42]

JPFO released a newsletter that I believe is important to every American Jew and Christian - please read it at:

http://www.jpfo.org/christian-selfdefense.htm

It's not something you'll find at your typical Jewish website.

[jason_r]

sounds pretty extreme. yeah, our faith is being threatened but it shouldn't come as a surprise. Jesus said we'll be persecuted and suffer for following him:

"In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted," (2 Tim 3:12)

Jesus speaking:
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." (Matthew 5:11-12)

Jesus speaking:
"If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you . Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the One who sent me." (John 15:19-21)

"For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows." (2 Cor 1:5)

"We sent Timothy, who is our brother and God's fellow worker in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. You know quite well that we were destined for them. In fact, when we were with you, we kept telling you that we would be persecuted." (1 Thes 3:2-3)


etc...if it happens it happens. we'll just have to press on.

[Jin-Roh]

Good article for the most part. I withhold judgement on the 'kill those who persecute you' part though.

Here are the highlights according to Jin-Roh.


Seventh graders in a California school take an intensive three-week course on Islam—which includes praying to Allah and conducting a mock jihad—but are not allowed to study Christianity in school.

I'll have to check out the sources on this one, but I absolutely would not be surprised.


You might imagine Christianity can't be threatened in the United States because it's America's majority faith. But there's no assurance Christians will remain in the majority. And ironically, part of the reason Christianity is so threatened now is that it is the majority faith.
[...]
But that same employer feels safe demanding removal of Christian symbols because Christianity, as the majority religion, is seen as the "oppressor" of other religions and cultures.

That's us folks!
Big evil western-Christians! Sending out our missionaries cuz we hate everybody! (nevermind the parts about the Quacker Abolitionists, the fact that Missionaries in India ended things like the Funeral Pyre practice, Mother Thearsa, the endless list of Martyrs...)
:ahem:


Not long ago, I spoke with a man who happened to mention he was Christian. Immediately after telling me that, he apologized for his beliefs. I asked why on earth he should be sorry. He began to mumble that Christians were responsible for slavery and oppression and slaughter of native peoples and bigotry toward other religions.

This is sad.
That guy :whip:
It's sad a Christian can't adequatley answer objections like that. Know your own religion man!


If you are Jewish, you should care because Christian America is the best home our people have found in 2,000 years. Despite all its imperfections, despite the anti-Semitism that some U.S. Christians (and non-believers) have practiced against us, this remains the most tolerant, prosperous, and safest home we could be blessed with.

:thumb: I'm very happy to hear a Jew say this!


If you are Christian, you should care because the actions described at the top of this article may be only the beginning. One Holocaust survivor observed, "Auschwitz wasn't built with bricks. It was built with words." That's how it begins.

I agree with this as well. It may sound like hyperbole (and I'm not a huge fan of fear appeals), but it's a valid point. One has to only think about the possible implications of the earth charter for a few minutes.

[Conductor42]

01-11-2004 @ 11:29 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=373300#post373300)
Jin-Roh:
I agree with this as well. It may sound like hyperbole (and I'm not a huge fan of fear appeals), but it's a valid point. One has to only think about the possible implications of the earth charter for a few minutes.

What is the earth charter?

[Dave G]

It looks like a world ethics/ humanitarian/ ecology plan. I assume a one-world government would have to implement it?

[Jin-Roh]

Today @ 08:42 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=376990#post376990)
yoshiah_ap:



What is the earth charter?

It's this. (http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2002/09-23-2002/vo18no19_religion.htm)
/hide I will not be taken alive.

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

01-11-2004 @ 02:55 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=372917#post372917)
jason_r:

sounds pretty extreme. yeah, our faith is being threatened but it shouldn't come as a surprise. Jesus said we'll be persecuted and suffer for following him:

"In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted," (2 Tim 3:12)
I can't help but wonder if some Christians act the way they do just SO they will be persecuted, so they can play that card for all it's worth. In most cases I've come across where a Christian has been the victim of persecution (as opposed to the deliverer, as is more often the case), it's usually because someone among their number has acted like an elitist or dictatorial idiot toward the person or group who is "victimizing" them.

[Dave G]

So, there's no real way for a Christian to be without guilt in your scenario, is there?

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

Today @ 12:30 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=377248#post377248)
Dave G:

So, there's no real way for a Christian to be without guilt in your scenario, is there?
Guilt for what? What I'm saying is that 99 times out of 100, when Christians are persecuted and you want to know why, you'd do well to look back and see what those being persecuted did to bring it upon themselves in the first place. It always amazes me that Christians and right-wingers in general will go out and willfully stomp on the rights of other people, then have the gall to wonder why those other people dislike them so much. They come off with, "Oh, they don't like me because I love Jesus." It's never, "They don't like me because I'm willing to spit on the rights on people who I see as less then myself (i.e. anyone who doesn't believe as I do)."

[Dave G]

Don't have any Christians like that around here. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a lot of complaining here that I've seen. But it does sound like you're saying that any problems a person would have with a Christian would most normally be the Christian's fault.

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

Today @ 01:03 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=377336#post377336)
Dave G:

Don't have any Christians like that around here. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a lot of complaining here that I've seen. But it does sound like you're saying that any problems a person would have with a Christian would most normally be the Christian's fault.

No, that's not what I'm saying, at least not exactly. I'm saying that the usual excuse of "we're persecuted because we follow Christ" is a crock! When you are persecuted (which isn't all that often, and not nearly as often as Christians do the persecuting), it is largely because of the history of intolerance, oppression and persecution Christianity has carved for itself. In short, for centuries Christianity made its bed, now modern Christians are having to lie in it. I, for one, am not terribly inclined to shed tears over seeing a people get their just desserts, especially when that very same oppression your people have been historically known for is still pretty widespread today.

[Dave G]

I'm sure a case can be made that Christians over the centuries were largely tolerant and what-have-you. However, you will find that all the political institutions operated the same way they do today, and since the church Catholic oversaw major conflicts, religious and political, it's easy to point to wars and events leading toward wars and say, there are the Christians being intolerant.
I'd be very interested to hear an argument explaining exactly how modern Christians are being persecuted because of the Crusades or other aggression.