The Eschatological Trumpets

[Pate]

Mat 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


1Cor 15:52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1Thess 4:15-16
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Rev 8:2
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.



What is the significance of these trumpets? When looking at these passages as such, the most natural solution would be to equate the seventh trumpet in Revelation with the last trump that Paul talked about, while that mentioned by Matthew could be some of the previous ones. But with such interpreation, it may be difficult to form a consistent whole.

Preteristic interpretation would probably see the "gathering" in Matthew as speaking of the spreading of Gospel in the Roman empire (consistent with the meanings of oikoumene and aggelos). How does that fit together with the Rev passages?

At least the passages with "last trump" would seem to clearly speak of future resurrection, but if so, can it be equated with the seventh trumpet in Revelation?

[Pate]

:huh:

[Chief of Staff Lizard]

:argh: This is a good question Pate. I do not have time to reply right now, but I hope someone else will. If not, I will reply in a few days hopefully.

:bump: for Pate.

[Chief of Staff Lizard]

Well Pate, it looks like there aren’t any other takers.

This isn’t an issue I have done much studying on, but it seem that it could be interesting. I will give you my initial thoughts on this matter, then try to do a little research (time permitting) and get back to you with a more detailed response.



Mat 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


1Cor 15:52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1Thess 4:15-16
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Rev 8:2
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.



What is the significance of these trumpets? When looking at these passages as such, the most natural solution would be to equate the seventh trumpet in Revelation with the last trump that Paul talked about, while that mentioned by Matthew could be some of the previous ones. But with such interpreation, it may be difficult to form a consistent whole.

Right now I am going strictly from memory, but I believe that trumpets are frequently used in the OT as a sign of many things. God’s coming judgment for one. Especially since trumpets were often used by attacking armies (the instruments, no pun intended, of God’s judgment) (See Amos 3:6) This is what I believe the trumpets in question are referring to (with the possible exception of the Matthew text).

I do agree that the interpretation that you give is hard to “form a consistent whole” with. Where I disagree, is that this interpretation is “the most natural solution”.

First of all, just because all these verses refer to trumpets, does not mean that they are all talking about the same thing. Secondly, I am not sure what you mean by solution. Unless you do believe that some sort of one to one correspondence is indicated and/or necessary. I do not see a need for a one to one correspondence between the trumpets. (ie Paul mentions a trumpet, John Mentions seven, therefore one of the trumpets in Rev. must be the same as Paul’s).

My “solution” to this would be to take each verse in context, to determine the meaning. (That would not, of course preclude comparing it to other scriptures).

That said I will attempt to give you a synopsis of my take on these passages. One that will by necessity be somewhat out of context, as I am work with no quick access to a bible to glean context. (IOW, I am going from my memory which is almost as horendus as my spilling :wink: )



Preteristic interpretation would probably see the "gathering" in Matthew as speaking of the spreading of Gospel in the Roman empire (consistent with the meanings of oikoumene and aggelos). How does that fit together with the Rev passages?

You are right, to a certain extent. Many preterist do interpret that verse that way. Some preterist see this as a transition verse (at lest I think this is the verse, remember I have no context, I reserve the right to change my mind if I am confusing this verse with another similar verse :wink: ), the “gathering” is a process (that is still going on today) of the eventual Christianization of the entire world (not just the Roman empire). This is the interpretation that I lean towards.

At least the passages with "last trump" would seem to clearly speak of future resurrection, but if so, can it be equated with the seventh trumpet in Revelation?

I agree. I think both of the Pauline passages are referring to the yet future final judgment. However, I do not think that necessitates that the seventh trumpet in Rev is the “last trumpet” mentioned in Paul’s writings. In fact, I do not think they are the same thing at all.

Somewhat off topic:

This past Christmas season I noticed that the town I live in had put up several decorations, one of which was an angel with a trumpet. I thought it odd, that an angel with a trumpet should be used as a festive symbol, because every angel with a trumpet that I know of (and I could be wrong, I mean to do a word study on this in the near future) is heralding the wrath or at the very least the judgment of God. I do not recall any of the angels in the nativity passages having trumpets (again I could be wrong).

[kofh2u]

The thinks that are mysterious in these oassages, things never explained, soecificalky, are not the trumpets... they are that follows that blast.

Mat 24:31
..., and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


1Cor 15:52
...; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

...d the dead shall be raised incorruptible...


... we shall be changed.


1Thess 4:15-16
... we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

... the Lord himself shall descend from heaven ....

... the voice of the archangel,...

.. the trump of God:

...the dead in Christ shall rise first:


WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THESE STATEMENTS?

Then, Revelation has more...

[Pate]

Thanks for your reply, Faramir. If you'll find out something interesting with your further research, please let me know.

[Ted]

In investigating the eschatological trumpets, one should consider the uses of trumpets in ancient Israel. After all, the Bible is totally Hebrew in its background and character. Trumpets were used by the Hebrews for:

(only one example of each cited)

1. They announced the beginning and end of all Temple services. (Num 10:9-10)
2. They were a call to battle (Neh 4:20)
3. They announced victory (1 Sam 6:15)
4. They were used to announce the anointing of a king. (1 Kin 1:34,39)
5. They announced the anointing of the Temple (2 Chron 29:26-28)
6. They announced the restoration of the Ark to the Jews (2 Sam 6:16)

Of course, they also were the center of Yom Teruah, the Feast of Trumpets, which rabbinic tradition calls "the little judgment" before "the great day of judgment" (the Day of Atonement).

An investigation of these shows one common theme. Trumpets always called Israel together.

The New Testament uses of trumpets all find their roots in the Old Testament. If the student pursues the correlation between the two, then meaning will be acquired for the New Testament trumpets.