A Father's Terrible Dilemma ... (true story)

[bar Jonah]

[Just for the sake of clarity, yes, I did write this myself, just now. It is not some forwarded e-mail chain letter, and I do not ask anyone to forward it in such a manner.]


My doctor/chiropractor, "Dr. Wally," is a very heartfelt Christian who gives free medical care to those who are deeply involved in ministry, and to their families. While I was at rehab recently, he told me about how his pastor related a story a few months ago in service. I do not remember the exact details, so forgive me if it's a tad inexact. This is a true story, but I'll understand if anyone questions that. Even still, note the dilemma in the story, for that is the point.

A man was fishing at a lake with his son and his son's friend. They were maybe 8 or so. They took a small boat (perhaps a canoe) out on the lake while the man sat on the shore, fishing. He'd asked them to stay near the shore, but for a few minutes, he didn't keep an eye on the boat as he baited a hook. They took the boat out further.

Suddenly, their boat tipped over. One tried to swim, but the other didn't get anywhere. Nevertheless, both of them were drowning; they couldn't swim the long distance back to shore. (They were at least 50 yards out, maybe more.)

The man quickly heard their shouts, dropped his pole and dove into into the lake to rescue them.

He almost immediately realized, because of their distance from both him and now each other (because one had tried to swim right away) that he would not be able to save both. He wasn't in great shape, himself, and hadn't anticipated this drastic situation, having expected them to be nearer the shore.

He had an immediate dilemma before him. Which boy to save?

He made his choice.

The pastor wept as he reached this point in the story. You see, the father knew that his son had accepted Christ. Knew his son was sealed by the Holy Spirit, had a citizenship in Heaven. But... he didn't know about his son's friend.

"I was his son's friend," the pastor said. "He saved me." Today, that boy is saved, as well, because this human shepherd left the 99 to rescue the one who might be lost. He knew that in reality -- ultimately -- his son was safe. But this boy, maybe not. He chose to save another man's son instead of his own, because his own son was already saved.

What choice would you have made?

[emulator]

I pray God never tests me like that...but I'd save em both for sure...hears to CPR, and hardheadedness

[bar Jonah]

But if you couldn't?

[Meatros]

Yesterday @ 11:28 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=374751#post374751)
RightIdea:

[Just for the sake of clarity, yes, I did write this myself, just now. It is not some forwarded e-mail chain letter, and I do not ask anyone to forward it in such a manner.]

I actually read something like this a few months ago, are you claiming you rewrote this or that you completely made this up?

In either case, why do you call this a 'true story'?

[Queen]

I would rather die instead of making a choice. I would not be able to live with this choice......which reminds me of the movie "Sophie's Choice". She could not live with her choice either and comitted suicide in the end.

I just could not live with the idea that I would have made a choice for an innocent child between life and death....

[Queen]

Today @ 01:48 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=375686#post375686)
Meatros:



I actually read something like this a few months ago, are you claiming you rewrote this or that you completely made this up?

In either case, why do you call this a 'true story'?

Maybe it is based on a story he has heard????

And even if it is not true....these things happen. And I pray to God that I never have to make such a choice

[bar Jonah]

Meatros:
I actually read something like this a few months ago, are you claiming you rewrote this or that you completely made this up?

In either case, why do you call this a 'true story'?
It is the true story of a pastor aquaintance who lives near here.

Don't tell me you're going to claim that just because I said the same about someone else's story, not too long ago. LOL :ahem:

[Jezz]

I find it hard to believe that it is a true story.

-It doesn't take a few minutes to bait a hook. It takes a few seconds.
-No responsible parent would leave kids alone in a canoe if they couldn't swim 50 yards.
-I've seen a movie with a similar story in it.
-You're relating this story at least 3rd hand, after hearing it once. Who knows if "Dr Wally" heard it properly...

Nevertheless, even if it's not a true story it has a good message. I would like to think I would have done the same, but I pray that I never have to find out.

[emulator]

if there was no chance of saving both...I would save the other kid, because I do want my child to live, but it's not more important than taking care of someone else's kid (who was left trustingly in my care), I think it would be a profound witness
...I think it is empty to assume that your child is saved, as empty as judging whether anyone will ascend or descend... I don't think either child is of greater value...but I know my wife would forgive me for sacrificing my child to save another.

[bar Jonah]

Jezz:
I find it hard to believe that it is a true story.

-It doesn't take a few minutes to bait a hook. It takes a few seconds.
-No responsible parent would leave kids alone in a canoe if they couldn't swim 50 yards.
-I've seen a movie with a similar story in it.
-You're relating this story at least 3rd hand, after hearing it once. Who knows if "Dr Wally" heard it properly...

Nevertheless, even if it's not a true story it has a good message. I would like to think I would have done the same, but I pray that I never have to find out.
Why are we debating this? I already stated from the start that I don't care if anyone believes its true. :nsm:

Therefore, that is :offtopic:

[Meatros]

Yesterday @ 06:54 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=376059#post376059)
RightIdea:


It is the true story of a pastor aquaintance who lives near here.

Don't tell me you're going to claim that just because I said the same about someone else's story, not too long ago. LOL :ahem:


Sounds awfully similar to this: http://www.snopes.com/glurge/choice.asp


After a few of the usual Sunday evening hymns, the church's pastor once again slowly stood up, walked over to the pulpit, and gave a very brief introduction of his childhood friend. With that, an elderly man stepped up to the pulpit to speak, "A father, his son, and a friend of his son were sailing off the Pacific Coast," he began, "when a fast approaching storm blocked any attempt to get back to shore. The waves were so high, that even though the father was an experienced sailor, he could not keep the boat upright, and the three were swept into the ocean."

The old man hesitated for a moment, making eye contact with two teenagers who were, for the first time since the service began, looking somewhat interested in his story. He continued, "Grabbing a rescue line, the father had to make the most excruciating decision of his life..to which boy he would throw the other end of the line. He only had seconds to make the decision. The father knew that his son was a Christian, and he also knew that his son's friend was not. The agony of his decision could not be matched by the torrent of waves. As the father yelled out, 'I love you, son!' he threw the line to his son's friend.

By the time he pulled the friend back to the capsized boat, his son had disappeared beyond the raging swells into the black of night. His body was never recovered."

By this time, the two teenagers were sitting straighter in the pew, waiting for the next words to come out of the old man's mouth. "The father," he continued, "knew his son would step into eternity with Jesus, and he could not bear the thought of his son's friend stepping into an eternity without Jesus. Therefore, he sacrificed his son. How great is the love of God that He should do the same for us." With that, the old man turned and sat back down in his chair as silence filled the room.

Within minutes after the service ended, the two teenagers were at the old man's side. "That was a nice story," politely started one of the boys, "but I don't think it was very realistic for a father to give up his son's life in hopes that the other boy would become a Christian."

"Well, you've got a point there," the old man replied, glancing down at his worn Bible. A big smile broadened his narrow face, and he once again looked up at the boys and said, "It sure isn't very realistic, is it? But I'm standing here today to tell you that THAT story gives me a glimpse of what it must have been like for God to give up His Son for me. You see... I was the son's friend."



I realize that you don't care if it's true or not, but I do.

[bar Jonah]

Then it appears either the pastor lied, or my friend was mistaken in understanding whether the story was allegedly true when he heard the pastor. I would guess the latter. I'll ask my friend the next time I see him. I have no desire to make a false claim.

Nevertheless, the point of the story still stands. :ri:

[truthman]

I agree, the point of the story stand, and RI should not be vilified for his passing it on for our benefit.

adam b

[bar Jonah]

Thanks.

I said from the beginning that the validity of the story is totally irrelevant.

[Lazy Agnostic]

Thanks.

I said from the beginning that the validity of the story is totally irrelevant.
And you were wrong.

[Pilgrim]

Actually he was not wrong and your assertion to the contrary is with out merit. He said in the very beginning that the point of the story is what matters, not the truth. Whether or not the events happened to this person or happened at all the point of the story must still be dealt with. It's the nature of parables. So stop being so contentious, I mean seriously, do we really need to fight about every stinking thread that comes along or can we all try to be the people we say we are trying to be and give each other the benefit of the doubt. Especially on such a benign thread as this one.

[bar Jonah]

And you were wrong.
Thank you, Pilgrim.

Whether the story is true or not, the question itself, remains.


But, LA, perhaps you might exercise a little textual criticism of my initial post to discern that the "intent of the author" was actually to aim his thread specifically at Christians? :lol:

[Rusty T]

Personally, I would save my own son. I can't sit here, looking at his sleeping, and think that I could lose him because of a decision such as that. I am speaking truthfully. My son would be my top priority. It would be his mother I would have to live with, explain my actions to, comfort at the funeral and for the rest of her life. It would be his empty bed I would face as I come home at night, his toys that we would box and put away. You see, I understand the point of the story. God's love for us transcends what we as humans are capable of outside of His love and Grace.

[bar Jonah]

Personally, I would save my own son. I can't sit here, looking at his sleeping, and think that I could lose him because of a decision such as that. I am speaking truthfully. My son would be my top priority. It would be his mother I would have to live with, explain my actions to, comfort at the funeral and for the rest of her life. It would be his empty bed I would face as I come home at night, his toys that we would box and put away. You see, I understand the point of the story. God's love for us transcends what we as humans are capable of outside of His love and Grace.
You would really stand by and watch someone probably go to Hell, so you could save the life of someone who you already know you'll spend eternity with because he has eternal life, regardless? What are you really saving your son from? From going to Heaven now instead of later? Are the material concerns of this life more important than the higher, spiritual ones of the next life? Should't we look ahead to that?

[Pilgrim]

That's a little unfair RI. We are charged with the care of our own children first and our families are our first calling. In this case I think either choice would be an honerable one and one that would be faithful to what God has called us to.

[Durthorin]

Having been a cop and seen situtions where mulitply people were dieing I rather doubt anyone here or there is going to decide who lives and dies based on theological concerns.. What decides life/death are small things that you don't think of.. which kid does he reach first and start working on for example. Your saving a life and in the time it takes you to save one you loose the other.. If you have faith, then who you reach first wasn't your call it was Gods.

[bar Jonah]

That's a little unfair RI. We are charged with the care of our own children first and our families are our first calling. In this case I think either choice would be an honerable one and one that would be faithful to what God has called us to.
How is that unfair? If it had been my brother or one of my parents, I would have done the same thing. Ask yourself -- which child was in greater danger? Did Paul consider himself to be in a terrible situation as sat in prison, knowing he was destined for execution? He had joy! While a Christian child isn't likely going to appreciate that, themselves, nevertheless we see that Paul is an example to us all. Take away my possessions, my friends, my family, my food, my water, even my air... and I still have everything I need.

And so does that father's son.

Which child is in greater danger? What's the priority? Keep your Christian son on this earth for a few years (a blink of an eye in the scheme of things) and let the other kid go to Hell for eternity? Or let your son go to be with our Father in Heaven for eternity, and take this opportunity to try to see this other child can do the same, so that all three of you can spend a joyful eternity with our Father in Heaven?

Which situation is preferable? Whichever child you pick, your son has an eternity of joy in heaven. What does your child have to lose compared to the other boy?

Which child is really in danger?

[Rusty T]

Take a deep breath. Someone disagrees with you. I'm almost positive it's not the first time.

tizzi

btw
When are you going to provide a definition for "baptist" and provide evidence for their unbroken lineage from John the Baptist until today?

[bar Jonah]

I'm calm, Tizzi. But you didn't answer the question. Which child is in greater danger? One has a promise of eternal joy, and the other doesn't. You tell me...?


As for the Baptist question, my life is honestly in chaos right now, and I only sporadically have time to jump online right now. I'm looking when I have a chance, but I do have to get back to you on it. I honestly didn't expect anyone to seriously contest what I have long considered to be incredibly obvious. (Don't get me wrong; that's my mistake, not yours.)

[Rusty T]

Well, you asked me how I would react, who I would save. I do not even think for a moment that in that situation my mind would be functioning in such a way as to consider the eternal destiny of the boys. My God-given reaction would be to save my son.

[bar Jonah]

Well, you asked me how I would react, who I would save. I do not even think for a moment that in that situation my mind would be functioning in such a way as to consider the eternal destiny of the boys. My God-given reaction would be to save my son.
Fair enough, bro. :rithumb: