Announcement

Collapse

Biblical Languages 301 Guidelines

This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

In all your ways know him?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • In all your ways know him?

    "In all your ways acknowledge Him,
    And He will make your paths straight." (Pr 3:6 NASB)

    Should this be "in all your ways know him"? Merely acknowledging God would seem rather weak by comparison! The NIV rather oddly, has "submit to him", I'm not sure where they get that from "yadah".

    And to know God in all our ways would seem very practical, to "walk humbly with your God" (Micah 6:8), make everything part of your relationship with him.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  • #2
    I don't understand your confusion here. If you acknowledge God in all you do (and the connotation AFAICS is not of lip service but knowing acknowledgement), that is, keep in mind that God as Just Judge is watching, then He will make your paths straight - you will not wander off to the right or left into sin, but stay on the straight and narrow path which leads to salvation. When one is standing on trial even before a human judge, one tends to stay on one's best behavior.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      If you acknowledge God in all you do (and the connotation AFAICS is not of lip service but knowing acknowledgement), that is, keep in mind that God as Just Judge is watching, then He will make your paths straight...
      I'm thinking it's the difference between "if the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that" (James 4:15) and walking with God through our various situations, relating to him, getting to know him.

      I found some evidence for "get to know him" in the Septuagint, "πάσαις ὁδοῖς σου γνώριζε αὐτήν" is the rendering, "know her", oddly enough, probably referring to "wisdom" in the previous verse, but still the verb "to know".

      Blessings,
      Lee
      Last edited by lee_merrill; 03-25-2018, 08:40 PM.
      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
        I'm thinking it's the difference between "if the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that" (James 4:15) and walking with God through our various situations, relating to him, getting to know him.

        I found some evidence for "get to know him" in the Septuagint, "πάσαις ὁδοῖς σου γνώριζε αὐτήν" is the rendering, "know her", oddly enough, probably referring to "wisdom" in the previous verse, but still the verb "to know".

        Blessings,
        Lee
        Keep in mind the difference in genre and context between James and Proverbs. A proverb is not an absolute or a command; it is a distillation of ancient wisdom.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Keep in mind the difference in genre and context between James and Proverbs. A proverb is not an absolute or a command; it is a distillation of ancient wisdom.
          Oh, but I think there are commands in Proverbs, though some are not guarantees (notably Prov. 22:6).

          Source: Word Biblical Commentary

          For the first time, separate couplets, mainly positive in form, appear, six of them in vv 1–12; ... They are admonitions with motive clauses.

          © Copyright Original Source



          And then there is this:

          Source: Reyburn and Fry, A Handbook on Proverbs, p. 74

          Acknowledge him is to know him, have an intimate acquaintance with him, be aware of him. In the present context it is not simply an intellectual awareness of God’s existence but acceptance of God’s presence to guide and direct your life. TEV renders this “remember the Lord.” CEV has “Always let him lead you,” which is a good model for translating.

          © Copyright Original Source



          So why not translate simply "know him"? Acknowledge in English could seem a mere hat-tip, like saying grace can be at meal-time.

          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

          Comment


          • #6
            The latest Jewish translation translates it that way.
            https://www.chabad.org/library/bible.../Chapter-3.htm

            הבְּטַ֣ח אֶל־יְ֖הוָה בְּכָל־לִבֶּ֑ךָ וְאֶל־בִּֽ֜ינָתְךָ֗ אַל־תִּשָּׁעֵֽן:
            Know Him in all your ways, and He will direct your paths.
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • #7
              בְּטַ֣ח אֶל־יְ֖הוָה בְּכָל־לִבֶּ֑ךָ וְאֶל־בִּֽ֜ינָתְךָ֗ אַל־תִּשָּׁע
              בְּטַח אֶל־יְהוָה בְּכָל־לִבֶּךָ וְאֶל־בִּֽינָתְךָ אַל־תִּשָּׁעֵֽן׃

              That Hebrew text above is verse 5. Here is verse 6:
              בְּכָל־דְּרָכֶיךָ דָעֵהוּ וְהוּא יְיַשֵּׁר אֹֽרְחֹתֶֽיךָ׃
              Last edited by 37818; 03-27-2018, 08:58 AM.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • #8
                The issue here isn't really about the Hebrew, but the English. You interpret "acknowledge him" as "merely acknowledge him," as if it just means to admit that he exists or to give the barest nod in his direction to say, "Yeah, I know you're there." But to acknowledge here really means to make the fact that you know God be known in all your ways and in everything you do. To acknowledge is to take mere knowledge, which just sits in your brain doing nothing, and to let it influence your actions so that it is clear to everyone else what you know. I think the translation, "In all your ways know him," is the one that would let you off the hook, to "merely know him," while you keep doing the same things you would have done if you didn't know him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                  Oh, but I think there are commands in Proverbs, though some are not guarantees (notably Prov. 22:6).

                  Source: Word Biblical Commentary

                  For the first time, separate couplets, mainly positive in form, appear, six of them in vv 1–12; ... They are admonitions with motive clauses.

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  Admonitions, yes. Commands, no.
                  And then there is this:

                  Source: Reyburn and Fry, A Handbook on Proverbs, p. 74

                  Acknowledge him is to know him, have an intimate acquaintance with him, be aware of him. In the present context it is not simply an intellectual awareness of God’s existence but acceptance of God’s presence to guide and direct your life. TEV renders this “remember the Lord.” CEV has “Always let him lead you,” which is a good model for translating.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  So why not translate simply "know him"? Acknowledge in English could seem a mere hat-tip, like saying grace can be at meal-time.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  I still am confused as to what your issue is here. How in the world do you get "mere hat-tip" out of the explanation you just posted?
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    Admonitions, yes. Commands, no.
                    Well, there are imperatives, and thus they are commands.

                    I still am confused as to what your issue is here. How in the world do you get "mere hat-tip" out of the explanation you just posted?
                    I agree that this quote shows acknowledgement to be a depth of knowing him, I am only concerned that acknowledgement may mean to the reader a mere hat-tip, if all they have is this English word to go by.

                    Thus it seems more appropriate to translate "know him", and make it clear what is meant...

                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                      Well, there are imperatives, and thus they are commands.


                      I agree that this quote shows acknowledgement to be a depth of knowing him, I am only concerned that acknowledgement may mean to the reader a mere hat-tip, if all they have is this English word to go by.

                      Thus it seems more appropriate to translate "know him", and make it clear what is meant...

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      IMHO, “acknowledge” comes across as more emphatic than “know”. STM either rendering is perfectly adequate. The problem is caused by the character of language and meaning as socially-influenced constructs. If one has to err at all, it may less bad to err by under-translation, than by over-translation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                        I'm thinking it's the difference between "if the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that" (James 4:15) and walking with God through our various situations, relating to him, getting to know him.

                        I found some evidence for "get to know him" in the Septuagint, "πάσαις ὁδοῖς σου γνώριζε αὐτήν" is the rendering, "know her", oddly enough, probably referring to "wisdom" in the previous verse, but still the verb "to know".

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        Maybe, by the time that the Greek translation of the passage was made, Wisdom had developed from being an hypostatised Divine attribute to being a personified and individualised Divine attribute, so that, to know Wisdom, was to know God.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                          IMHO, “acknowledge” comes across as more emphatic than “know”. STM either rendering is perfectly adequate. The problem is caused by the character of language and meaning as socially-influenced constructs. If one has to err at all, it may less bad to err by under-translation, than by over-translation.
                          Found another quote:

                          Source: Bible Knowledge Commentary

                          As a person trusts in the Lord and acknowledges Him (this is not a nod of recognition but an intimate knowledge of God) in all his ways…

                          © Copyright Original Source


                          So I would argue for "know him" here, this would seem to show best "an intimate knowledge of God", and would not seem to be over-translating.

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                          Comment

                          widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                          Working...
                          X