Does God love everyone the same?

[joelkaki]

Does God love every single person the same way?

I do not want this thread to degenerate into debating whether God loves everyone or not. Let's assume for the purposes of this thread that God loves every single person in some manner. The question remaining then, is "Does God love every single person the same way?" Does God love His church, the elect, believers, the same way as he loves Joe down the street who died without knowing Christ?


Joel

[Gavin]

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

[Pilgrim]

Are you asking about a qualitative or a quantitative distinction?

[joelkaki]

Are you asking about a qualitative or a quantitative distinction?

I am not talking about quantitative. For the purposes of this thread, let's assume God loves every man, woman, and child in one form or another, whether it be common grace or saving love or whatever. (That debate can be held elsewhere--whether he loves every man in any sense or not). Does God love every single human being with the same quality of love? Does he love his elect with the same love as he loves those who go to Hell?

Joel

[Pilgrim]

If God loves everyone then...

I would say that if we are in individual relationships with God then the way in which we recieve that love must have some qualitative difference because we are each unique and so our relationships with God will neccesarily have qualitites that are unique and distinct from others.

If we define love as God's right caring for us then we know that each of us, like any child of any parent, will require different types of expressions of that love. Some will need love expressed in rebuke or correction (most actually) some will need to see that love in terms of reward, others will need to see it terms of relationship etc...

[ItalianGold]

God IS Love

[Pilgrim]

I agree, but the statement rings shallow for individuals outside of a certain set of religious aprioris.

[DBoone]

<Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.">

What would make God hate someone? Let's admit that there are very few if not one (above) verses that speak of God in this way.

Esau would have nothing to do with God, had better things to do like hunting with a bow. But I think it goes way further than that. Esau subverted the plans of God in Genesis 25, v34 says that he despised his birthright. Pretty much everything he did was diametrically opposed to God's purposes.

But let's also look at the word 'hate' in the sense that it was written. Did the writer really mean 'hate' the way we use the word? Jesus said that if we don't hate everyone else for His sake that we are true believers, but He did not mean the kind of violence and bigotry that we associate with hatred, but instead an all-out love for God by which all other earthly relationships pale.

So I'm still not sure about God loving one more than another. The Bible does say that God is no respecter of persons, so even if there is some emotional inequity in how God feels about you or me, He still deals with each of us fairly.

Also does this factor into the equation?: Even if God loves us all the same, He rewards us according to our obedience.

[joelkaki]

<Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.">

What would make God hate someone? Let's admit that there are very few if not one (above) verses that speak of God in this way.

Esau would have nothing to do with God, had better things to do like hunting with a bow. But I think it goes way further than that. Esau subverted the plans of God in Genesis 25, v34 says that he despised his birthright. Pretty much everything he did was diametrically opposed to God's purposes.

The only problem with what you say is that verse 11 shows that God loved Jacob and hated Esau before they were born, expressly stating it was before they had done any good or evil.



But let's also look at the word 'hate' in the sense that it was written. Did the writer really mean 'hate' the way we use the word? Jesus said that if we don't hate everyone else for His sake that we are true believers, but He did not mean the kind of violence and bigotry that we associate with hatred, but instead an all-out love for God by which all other earthly relationships pale.

So I'm still not sure about God loving one more than another. The Bible does say that God is no respecter of persons, so even if there is some emotional inequity in how God feels about you or me, He still deals with each of us fairly.

I agree. He is not a respecter of persons. But that is because his love is not because of something intrinsic in us. It has nothing to do with how we are. God loves us though we are vile sinners. But I believe he loves those whom he has chosen with a different kind of love than those whom he has not chosen, and that is justifiable because it is not based on anything in us.



Also does this factor into the equation?: Even if God loves us all the same, He rewards us according to our obedience.

My point basically is. If God loves every single person with the same love, then he loves every single person with the love in Romans 8:38-39, "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." And if God loves every single person with that kind of love, then not a single person will ever be separated from his love, and thus no one goes to Hell, and everyone is saved. And that is unbiblical. Therefore, he must not love everyone with the same kind of love.

Joel

[DBoone]

I think there's a big difference between being loved by God and being in a covenantal relationship with God. God loves all of us but has a covenantal relationship with only a few. "Many are called, but few are chosen." It is the covenantal relationship of which you quote in Romans 8:38-39, "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS our Lord." (capitals mine for emphasis) God loves us so much that He has established a way for us to come to Him thru Christ. John 3:16 says as much. But there's nothing in the Bible that says that God's love requires Him to accept our sinfulness, which is why John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." And still that work needs to be done in each person's life which involves an act of faith on our parts to bring that cleansing, 1John 1:8,9.