Copeland needs 2.5 mil

[truthman]

Kenneth Copeland needs you to help him raise 2.5 million dollars so that he can buy 2 private jets. This way, he can fly around the world and preach his wealth gospel in total comfort and without any hindrances.

http://www.elitecxteam.org/

Won't you give today? Give out of your decrease and God will increase your wallet! (um, yes, sarcasm intended)

truthman

[RC]

Name it and Claim it.
He needs to practice what he preaches and just be a little God and make it happen. What does he need others for.

[truthman]

RC,

Exactly! He can just name those jets that don't exist and they will miraculously appear on the runway behind his luxury house that also just miraculously appeared.

truthman

[bar Jonah]

Gosh, I hope God doesn't kill him if he doesn't come up with the money!

*cough*Oral Roberts*cough*

[Socrates]

Copeland is a greedy grapsing heretic, like the other leading prosperity gospellers.

[Jin-Roh]

You know, I just read the section in Dante's Inferno about the the circle of Hell for heretics.
:grin:

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

There's a televangelist who posts occasionally over at TOL. I believe he goes by "C. Moore." His ministry, as it were, is in Germany, if memory serves. Anyway, I was arguing with him once about Creflo Dollar (ironic name, don't you think?), Benny Hinn, and a few others who jet around the world in private planes and live in the lap of luxury. Mr. Moore insisted that this was not evidence of greed, but rather that these men need to have private jets, private buses, private elevators, and so on, so that they can travel without fear of being corrupted by the sins of the masses. And he was being serious!

[Jin-Roh]

Oh yeah.
It should be mentioned that the apostles (and many other early Christian missionaries), had very little on their jounries. I guess they didn't have enough faith.

[bar Jonah]

Socrates:
Copeland is a greedy grapsing heretic, like the other leading prosperity gospellers.
Yeah, but at least he can teleport, unlike many other televangelists! :rithumb:

:lol:

[truthman]

C. Moore dollars!

:rofl:

[Socrates]

Today @ 02:29 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=396356#post396356)
Eireann:

There's a televangelist who posts occasionally over at TOL. I believe he goes by "C. Moore." His ministry, as it were, is in Germany, if memory serves. Anyway, I was arguing with him once about Creflo Dollar (ironic name, don't you think?), Benny Hinn, and a few others who jet around the world in private planes and live in the lap of luxury. Mr. Moore insisted that this was not evidence of greed, but rather that these men need to have private jets, private buses, private elevators, and so on, so that they can travel without fear of being corrupted by the sins of the masses. And he was being serious!

:shoot: :argh: :metro: :punch:

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

To be honest, I'm not sure who's more scary, the televangelists who are asking for the money, or the people who send it to them.

[bar Jonah]

To be honest, I'm not sure who's more scary, the televangelists who are asking for the money, or the people who send it to them.
The sheep aren't scary. They are just tragically ignorant.

[Mujibur]

So we're supposed to stop giving our money to organizations that are clothing the poor and feeding the hungry and give it to Copeland so he doesn't have to fly with the common folk anymore? Yeah, that sounds like what God would want :ahem:

Oh, no wait. We should probably just pray for more money so that we can give to both.

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

I'm reminded of the old story about three ministers, one of them a televangelist, comparing how they divided up their contributions. The first minister explained that he would set a box on the floor, throw the money in the air, and what fell outside the box would go to God and his ministry while what fell inside the box would go to the minister and church for mundane concerns. The second minister explained that he would draw a big circle on the floor, throw the money in the air, and what fell inside the circle went to God and ministry, and what fell outside went to the minister and church. The televangelist came forward and said, "Well, what I do is just throw all the money into the air, and what God catches, he keeps."

[Rahab]

Imagine a very large church with an attendance of about 5000..... the pastor and his wife own a 2 million dollar home and she drives a Mercedes....he exhibits during a service a Rolex boasting about how Jesus led one of his sheep to donate it to him.....the 5000 marvel at this man "so much closer to God" than anyone else. A simple man on a Sunday service witnessed that exhortation of "gimme gimme in the name of Jesus"..... he rose from his seat and shouted above the crowds.... " how dare you use the name of Jesus... you phony!". He was escorted outside by two body guards.

Do not imagine anylonger..... it happened right here in Tampa. How can so many who read the Word, who claim to relate to Christ, who worship Him, who speak in tongues, how can they be led in such deciet?

The punch line of that story is that the simple man is an agnostic......and he spoke the truth to folks who claim to know the truth.

We can only grieve for those poor folks.....but the rigtheous anger of that man may have been God's Rigtheous Anger on that preacher.

[bar Jonah]

Imagine a very large church with an attendance of about 5000..... the pastor and his wife own a 2 million dollar home and she drives a Mercedes....he exhibits during a service a Rolex boasting about how Jesus led one of his sheep to donate it to him.....the 5000 marvel at this man "so much closer to God" than anyone else. A simple man on a Sunday service witnessed that exhortation of "gimme gimme in the name of Jesus"..... he rose from his seat and shouted above the crowds.... " how dare you use the name of Jesus... you phony!". He was escorted outside by two body guards.

Do not imagine anylonger..... it happened right here in Tampa. How can so many who read the Word, who claim to relate to Christ, who worship Him, who speak in tongues, how can they be led in such deciet?

The punch line of that story is that the simple man is an agnostic......and he spoke the truth to folks who claim to know the truth.

We can only grieve for those poor folks.....but the rigtheous anger of that man may have been God's Rigtheous Anger on that preacher.
God certainly can use the wicked to bring about His will.

[Aseity]

Kenneth and Gloria Copeland are *NOT* Christians, they are Cult leaders and frauds! Same as the rest of the W.O.F. movement.

Kenneth and Gloria Copeland
An Apologetics Index research resource
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c53.html

Articles exposing the false gospel of Kenneth Copeland.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/kcopeland.html

They will have their Day in Court. They will be weighed and found wanting. The scales of justice will tip and they will slip off.

[bar Jonah]

Not every leader in the Word Faith movement is unsaved; let's not speak of things we cannot know. But I certainly agree that a great many of them belong either in prison or a mental hospital. And the ones that are saved are very deceived and are leading unhealthy Christian lives.

[Rahab]

God certainly can use the wicked to bring about His will.
I think the "unsaved" may be more appropriate than the "wicked"......I can hardly imagine myself referring to this man as " oh you wicked man".

God has such an intimate knowledge of the human heart that He can foresee who will be willing to express His Will in the most adverserial circumstances and who no matter how rigtheous will not be willing or even aware of His Will....

[bar Jonah]

I think the "unsaved" may be more appropriate than the "wicked"......I can hardly imagine myself referring to this man as " oh you wicked man".

God has such an intimate knowledge of the human heart that He can foresee who will be willing to express His Will in the most adverserial circumstances and who no matter how rigtheous will not be willing or even aware of His Will....
Why wouldn't we call the unsaved "wicked?" A righteous man judges all things, and this is not on our authority but straight from God's word. None are righteous apart from God. Those who are not saved are under the Law. And those who are under the Law, Paul refers to as wicked.

I was once terribly wicked. Anyone apart from Christ is wicked, as well. That doesn't mean we hate them and desire them to suffer and receive torment for eternity. :ri:

[Rahab]

Why wouldn't we call the unsaved "wicked?" A righteous man judges all things, and this is not on our authority but straight from God's word. None are righteous apart from God. Those who are not saved are under the Law. And those who are under the Law, Paul refers to as wicked.

I was once terribly wicked. Anyone apart from Christ is wicked, as well. That doesn't mean we hate them and desire them to suffer and receive torment for eternity. :ri:

Right Idea.... bonjour! I am not a "we"....I am a person who does not refer to my fellow human beings especialy those I have a close relationship with as "you wicked". I prefer the term "unsaved". So I will refer to this man as an unsaved person and let God be the absolute judge of the state of his heart.

Let me also remind you that Christ's criteria to define who is rigtheous ( Matthew 25 : 32 thru 46) goes further than the claim to be saved.....
" I assure you when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters you were refusing to help me". Followed by the final warning addressed to the same brothers and sisters " and they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life".
One has to be careful as he or she claims to be a "rigtheous man who judges all things" for Christ may not aknowledge that claim to be what fits His Definition of the righteous.

So it may be prudent to not use a term Paul used.... unless of course one believes to be as righteous as Paul was.

[bar Jonah]

But I am as righteous as Paul was. I take it, then, that I may use the term?

I didn't say I know where a person will end up. They are wicked now. I hope they will be made a new creation in Christ tomorrow. And I said I would not abandon such a person or "refuse to help the least of these..." Where did you get that idea? The whole point of my ministry is to reach out to the wicked with love.

I also didn't say it is prudent to go around just calling people "wicked" to their face. But that doesn't mean you can't concede they are wicked, in a discussion with a fellow believer. You are already being judgemental by saying they are unbelievers. What is the difference? If they are unbelievers, they are wicked -- plain and simple. Same thing.

One more note -- keep in mind that Jesus in His earthly ministry was referring to people who, even if believers, were not saved yet! No price had been paid for their sins, and they were not new creations in Him, nor were they indwelled by the Holy Spirit. So, in that respect, you are ignoring the apples and oranges of this context.

Paul, on the other hand, was writing after those things took place.

[Rahab]

But I am as righteous as Paul was. I take it, then, that I may use the term?

I didn't say I know where a person will end up. They are wicked now. I hope they will be made a new creation in Christ tomorrow. And I said I would not abandon such a person or "refuse to help the least of these..." Where did you get that idea? The whole point of my ministry is to reach out to the wicked with love.

I also didn't say it is prudent to go around just calling people "wicked" to their face. But that doesn't mean you can't concede they are wicked, in a discussion with a fellow believer. You are already being judgemental by saying they are unbelievers. What is the difference? If they are unbelievers, they are wicked -- plain and simple. Same thing.

One more note -- keep in mind that Jesus in His earthly ministry was referring to people who, even if believers, were not saved yet! No price had been paid for their sins, and they were not new creations in Him, nor were they indwelled by the Holy Spirit. So, in that respect, you are ignoring the apples and oranges of this context.

Paul, on the other hand, was writing after those things took place.

Actualy in Matthew 25, Christ is talking about what is to come as He will gather all the nations and judge them. He is announcing what will take place after His Accomplishing God's Plan of Salvation. His warning about the criteria for who is rigtheous is already a projection onto folks who will claim salvation at the time of His Judgement as " He comes in all His Glory". And He clearly addresses His Warning to " brothers and sisters".
Since you mention "apples and oranges in the context" this is the verse which introduces Christ's criteria for rigtheousness .31 : " But when the Son of Man comes in His Glory and all the angels with Him,then He will sit upon His Glorious Throne" 32 " All the nations will be gathered in His Presence....". Clearly that is a prophetic vision on how Christ will separate the brothers and sisters into two groups..... sheep and goats. Note that He consistantly refers to "brothers and sisters" as He explains to them why some will be judged as "goats' and others as "sheep". And that process takes place after it was all accomplished on the cross..... not before.
I did not imply that you neglect the "lesser of these". What I implied though is that we need to be careful to claim to be rigtheous and use that as a justification to be able to judge all things.

My mentionning that this man is an agnostic is to point to how interesting it is that he had the discernment to know God's Will and expressed concern publicaly for His Will while thousands who heard him may feel as rigtheous as Paul and could not discern that Will. Not so wicked .....as he did not wear blinders and obviously cared more about how misrepresented the character of Christ was than those faithful church attendees who study the Word and ought to know......

The question is Right Idea.....how can a heart be judged as wicked by God when this heart shows more reverence and honor to the character of Christ than those who claim to be rigtheous in Christ?

[Lazy Agnostic]

Not every leader in the Word Faith movement is unsaved; let's not speak of things we cannot know. But I certainly agree that a great many of them belong either in prison or a mental hospital. And the ones that are saved are very deceived and are leading unhealthy Christian lives.
What about those who claim righteousness yet, with arrogant pride, display a graven image with which they have disfigured their temple of the Holy Spirit---a graven image received to worship at the altar of peer pressure?

[bar Jonah]

What about those who claim righteousness yet, with arrogant pride, display a graven image with which they have disfigured their temple of the Holy Spirit---a graven image received to worship at the altar of peer pressure?
Uhmm...... Huh? :huh:

Ohhhhhhhhh, you mean my pentagram. The symbol I openly show to demonstrate to the world how Christ freed me from bondage in the lustful prison of Babylon!

My prison tattoo.

:rigreen:

[Mujibur]

I think this thread has gone a little off topic. Let's get back to talking about Copeland.

[bar Jonah]

Copeland is a wiener dog! :thumbd:


:wink:

[Mujibur]

Copeland is a wiener dog! :thumbd:


:wink:

That's more like it.

[truthman]

I also agree, this topic is way off thread, thread is way off topic, or something.

This bit about righteousness/wickedness should be moved elsewhere.

Copeland, does he even share the gospel anymore? How to get saved? Or does he say "Get saved so you can be blessed physically/financially by God"?

truthman