Repetitious prayer

[Jude3b]

Jesus spoke of repetitious prayer as being a practice of the heathen. "When ye pray," he said, "use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do;"
Roman Catholics are taught to pray repetitious prayers over and over again on Rosary beads, etc.
Why do Roman Catholics disregard the Word of God in this matter of repetitious prayer?
Sincerely, Jude3b

[spl_cadet]

Jesus spoke of repetitious prayer as being a practice of the heathen. "When ye pray," he said, "use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do;"

Keyword: Vain.
The pagans would throw out the names of as many gods as they could think of in the hope of being heard and answered by one of them.


Roman Catholics are taught to pray repetitious prayers over and over again on Rosary beads, etc.
Why do Roman Catholics disregard the Word of God in this matter of repetitious prayer?
Sincerely, Jude3b

We don't disregard the Word of God. We simply do not do vain repetition.

[Katholish]

Indeed Cadet.

The Rosary is not primarily focused on the words of the individual prayers, but is meditative in nature, focusing on the different mysterys of the Rosary (Of which there have traditionally been 15, and the pope just recommended the addition of 5 more). The Rosary is a meditation on the Life of Christ as seen through the eyes of his mother. Starting with the Joyful Mysteries, the Announciation, the Visitation, the Birth of our Lord, the Presentation in the Temple, and the Finding in the Temple, the Sorrowful Mysteries: The Agony in the Garden, the Scourging at the Pillar, the Crowning of Throwns, the Carrying of the Cross, and Christ's Death in the Cross; the Glorious Mysteries: The Resurrection, the Ascension, Pentecost, The Assumption, and the Coronation of Mary. (and the Luminous Mysteries: The Baptism in the Jordan, the Wedding at Cana, The Proclaimation of the Kingdom, the Transfiguration, and the Last Supper).

As Cadet memtioned, Christ spoke against vain repitition in response to those who thought that the efficacy of prayer was in the words themselves, and not in the conforminty of the petitioner to God's Will. Thus they consentrated on the words themselves as opposed to the meaning behind the words and meditation. Granted that the Rosary may be said improperly so that a person does indeed fall into vain repition, but this would be an abuse, and it is just as easy to abuse any other prayer such as the "Our Fater" which Christ Himself gave to us directly.

[Spokoina]

Well, vain repetitious prayers exist every sunday morning in almost every church, do they not? Stand up, recite the creed, sit down, listen to the scripture, stand up and sing the deos, the hymns...vainly repeating the words as our minds wander off to what the weather will be when we get out of church.

Repetitous prayers CAN help discipline your mind to focus, if that is an issue for you. Vain repetitions are robotic and serve little other than to satisfy ourselves that we did the minimum duty.

[spl_cadet]

Well, vain repetitious prayers exist every sunday morning in almost every church, do they not? Stand up, recite the creed, sit down, listen to the scripture, stand up and sing the deos, the hymns...vainly repeating the words as our minds wander off to what the weather will be when we get out of church.

Then concentrate on the miracle that occurs at Mass and is the entire focus of the Mass: Transubstantiation.

[rossum]

The Jesus Prayer (http://www.svots.edu/Faculty/Albert-Rossi/Articles/Saying-the-Jesus-Prayer.html) is one method of repetitious prayer used mainly within the Eastern Orthodox tradition. The website says:

We are all called to pray without ceasing, says St. Paul in 1 Thess 5:17. The real questions is, how.

rossum

[Jude3b]

Prayers to Mary and prayers to Roman Catholic saints would be classified as "vain" and that is because Romanists are commiting grievous sin in worship of Mary. The Roman Catholic Religion dishonors God, first by its use of images; and secondly, by giving to a creature the worship that belongs only to the Creator. This is just another example of Rome's persistent tendency to add to the divinely prescribed way of salvation. Romanism sets forth faith plus works, Scripture and tradition, Christ and Mary, as the means of salvation.

Many Roman Catholics vainly pray to Mary and the Roman saints more than they pray to God. This practice is truly abhorrent.

[spl_cadet]

Philomarianism was condemned as heresy a millenia and a half ago Jude. We do not worship her.

[Jude3b]

Dear SpL: Perhaps you don't worship Mary yourself.

However, many Roman Catholics do.

Catholicism contends that at Mary's death, the Lord took her up into heaven and gave her the title, "Queen over all things:" "FINALLY THE IMMACULATE VIRGIN, PRESERVED FREE FROM ALL STAIN OF ORIGINAL SIN, WHEN THE COURSE OF HER EARTHLY LIFE WAS FINISHED, WAS TAKEN UP BODY AND SOUL INTO HEAVENLY GLORY, AND EXALTED BY THE LORD AS QUEEN OVER ALL THINGS." (Cathechism, Page 252, #966).

So, SPL do you not agree with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Religion as they relate to Mary?

Sincerely, Jude 3b

[spl_cadet]

I agree with the Catechism. I also agree with the condemnation of Philomarianism and the worship of Mary.

[Katholish]

The Catholic Church does not "worship" Mary in the sense that you mean it. There are differing levels of respect, praise, etc. Due to persons based on their position in the Heavenly hierarchy. For instance, St. Michael the Archangel is deserving of more honor then the angel formerly known as Lucifer (I hope that is obvious). Catholics differentiate three different levels of honor, veneration, and worship called dulia, hyperdulia, and latria. Here is the Catholic Encyclopedia's definition of Dulia:

Greek doulia; Lat. servitus), a theological term signifying the honour paid to the saints, while latria means worship given to God alone, and hyperdulia the veneration offered to the Blessed Virgin Mary. St. Augustine (De Civ. Dei, X, ii, 1) distinguishes two kinds of servitus: "one which is due to men . . . which in Greek is called dulia; the other, latria, which is the service pertaining to the worship of God". St. Thomas (II-II:103:3) bases the distinction on the difference between God's supreme dominion and that which one man may exercise over another. Catholic theologians insist that the difference is one of kind and not merely of degree; dulia and latria being as far apart as are the creature and the Creator. Leibniz, though a Protestant, recognizes the "discrimen infinitum atque immensum between the honour which is due to God and that which is shown to the saints, the one being called by theologians, after Augustine's example, latria, the other dulia"; and he further declares that this difference should "not only be inculcated in the minds of hearers and learners, but should also be manifested as far as possible by outward signs" (Syst. theol., p. 184). A further distinction is made between dulia in the absolute sense, the honour paid to persons, and dulia in the relative sense, the honour paid to inanimate objects, such as images and relics. With regard to the saints, dulia includes veneration and invocation; the former being the honour paid directly to them, the latter having primarily in view the petitioner's advantage. More detailed explanation of dulia and the reasons for which it is shown to persons or things will be found in the articles IMAGES, RELICS, SAINTS. See also ADORATION and WORSHIP.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05188b.htm

[Jude3b]

The Lord Jesus and He alone is the way, the truth, and the life; only He can forgive sin; only He of all earth's creatures, has ever lived a life that was never stained with sin; and HE is to be worshipped - never his mother.

Sincerely, Jude 3b

[Jude3b]

Millions of faithful Roman Catholics blindly file into confessional booths, believing that a priest has the power to forgive their sins. The priest assigns them the duty of repetitious prayers, saying "Hail Marys" and "Our Fathers" for "Penance."

Where is the Scriptural Basis for this?

[Jude3b]

Why does the Roman Catholic church want us to use an endless repetition of words?

[Joe Gofish]

Jesus spoke of repetitious prayer as being a practice of the heathen. "When ye pray," he said, "use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do;"
Roman Catholics are taught to pray repetitious prayers over and over again on Rosary beads, etc.
Why do Roman Catholics disregard the Word of God in this matter of repetitious prayer?
Sincerely, Jude3b

Jude This is just one more of the many verse from the bible that you take out of context,
Matt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, "do not heap up empty phrases" in prayer. Protestants use this verse to criticize various Catholic forms of prayer which repeat phrases, such as litanies and the Rosary. But Jesus' focus in this instruction is on the "vain," and not on the "repetition."

Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It's the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying "God be merciful to me, a sinner." This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.

Acts 10:2,4 - Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.

Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.

Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.

Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty." This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.

Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase "For His steadfast love endures forever" is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God's divine Word.
Jude as much hate you have of the truth you may need to read the bible 4 or 5 more time to understand what it is saying.
Are you still taking Rev 22:18-19 out of context also ?

[Joe Gofish]

Well, vain repetitious prayers exist every sunday morning in almost every church, do they not? Stand up, recite the creed, sit down, listen to the scripture, stand up and sing the deos, the hymns...vainly repeating the words as our minds wander off to what the weather will be when we get out of church.

Repetitous prayers CAN help discipline your mind to focus, if that is an issue for you. Vain repetitions are robotic and serve little other than to satisfy ourselves that we did the minimum duty.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE "SINNERS PRAYER "

[Macarius]

Joe - I would actually add MORE references to Revelations to your list.

How many countless times are we told that the Cherubs around the throne never cease to repeat the same "Holy, Holy, Holy" hymn, and how many times do the Elders FALL DOWN (prostration) and say a specific hymn (always the same one).

Is this not repetitive? Is it not pleasing to God, since it will continue for eternity around His throne?