Can someone please define "Acts 9 dispensationalist"?

[Gavin]

I have vague ideas about what belief-system this term denotes, but I would like to hear a thorough definiton if someone is willing and able to give me one.

Thank you!

[joelkaki]

This is what RightIdea (an X9er) posted concerning that some time ago:

Acts 9 -- a dispensationalist who believes the Body of Christ didn't begin until God cut Israel off for failing her election, and He brought in Paul to bring the new gospel of the Gentiles, aka the gospel of grace, of salvation by faith and not works (contrary to the gospel taught by the Twelve and by Jesus during His earthly ministry).

12-out -- An Acts-9 dispy who believes the Twelve weren't "grandfathered" into the Body of Christ after the cutting off of Israel, but rather continued under the dispensation in which they were saved. In other words, they continued to preach the gospel taught to them by Jesus rather than switching to Paul's gospel.

Dispensationalist -- A Christian is either Covenental or Dispensational. There is no third option. Covenental theologians believe the Body of Christ today receives all of the promises God made to Israel, and is "spiritual Israel." They believe either that We have been adopted spiritually into Israel, or we have totally and permanently replaced Israel, and God will never work with the Jews again. We dispensationalists, on the other hand, believe the Body of Christ is different from historical, spiritual, corporate Israel, that we don't receive all the promises and gifts that came as a part of Israel's covenant with God, etc. Most dispensationalists are Acts 2 Dispies, who believe there was no difference between Paul's gospel and Jesus's (and the Twelve's) gospel, and that the Body of Christ began at Pentacost.


Hope that helps somewhat. What is your particular stand on this anyway? Dispensationalist? Covenant?

Joel

[Xmansmommy]

Thanks for posting that Joel! I was going to do the very same thing because I believe RightIdea did a great job explaining the position. I just didn't get to it before you did. So again, thanks. :smile:

[Gavin]

Joel - thank you for that definition, that clears it up.

In response to your question, I am Covenantal in my thinking becasue, among other reasons, I see many OT promises to Israel being fulfilled in the church, e.g. Jeremiah 33 cited in Hebrews, Joel 2 cited in Acts 2, etc.

Also Paul seems to believe in the idea of spiritual Israel.

Romans 9
6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."[2] 8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Romans 2
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

[Blake Reas]

03-11-2003 @ 05:01 PM
Gavin:

Joel - thank you for that definition, that clears it up.

In response to your question, I am Covenantal in my thinking becasue, among other reasons, I see many OT promises to Israel being fulfilled in the church, e.g. Jeremiah 33 cited in Hebrews, Joel 2 cited in Acts 2, etc.

Also Paul seems to believe in the idea of spiritual Israel.

Romans 9
6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."[2] 8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Romans 2
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

I am covenant also, as of now anyway! I just started reading on it and with school and stuff I don't have a lot of time. I do think that the New Testament implies that the Church is spiritual Israel though. Just my thoughts as of now.
By His Grace, For His Glory
Blake Reas

:yipee:

[Mikeb]

What do you call the people who think the Bible should have ended with John? The ones who think telling a Jewish story to a Roman audience is an absurd task?

Just wondering?

I mean, what do they call them besides a heretic?

[PuritanD]

I would strongly disagree that there are only two eschatological systems to work from. That is hard press and Rightidea is trying to state OV has to be dispensational since it isn't covenantal.

I would argue that OV has its own understanding of eschatology, due to their own hermeneutic and understanding of prophecy and fulfillment based on God's omniscience.

Just trying to keep dispensationalism from being cast into heretical teaching.

Similarly, OV does not want to fit into Arminianism or Calvinism which is hold to be the only orthodox view for Evangelicalism. OV has a new system of thought in this regard of salvation. They cannot have it both ways.