What is a saint?

[Jude3b]

What is a saint according to the various religions? How does that compare with the Bible definition of a saint?

[Katholish]

According to the Catholic Church, a saint, properly called, is one of the Blessed in Heaven.

[bar Jonah]

Yes, such as you, me and most of the people here at Tweb. :ribrown:

We are, after all, citizens of Heaven right now.

[spl_cadet]

A saint is any of the faithful. But generally the term Saint is used to refer to those that are in Heaven.

[bar Jonah]

A saint is any of the faithful. But generally the term Saint is used to refer to those that are in Heaven.
Then how does that relate to the special use of "St." John.... "St." Augustine, etc., as a special status? And how does that relate to the process of beatification and the declaration of sainthood by the RCC of certain, special individuals to whom we are then to pray for various things like cars that don't start, protection from the common cold and so forth?

[spl_cadet]

Then how does that relate to the special use of "St." John.... "St." Augustine, etc., as a special status?

As I said, the term Saint is generally used to refer to those in Heaven. So someone in Heaven is called St. So and So.


And how does that relate to the process of beatification and the declaration of sainthood by the RCC of certain, special individuals to whom we are then to pray for various things like cars that don't start, protection from the common cold and so forth?

You can pray to them to ask their intercession, though it is not required (and I don't think that there are patron saints for those :tongue:).

The process of canonization is how it is determined that someone is indeed in Heaven. When it is certain, then they are officially declared a saint.

[bar Jonah]

As I said, the term Saint is generally used to refer to those in Heaven. So someone in Heaven is called St. So and So.



You can pray to them to ask their intercession, though it is not required (and I don't think that there are patron saints for those :tongue:).

The process of canonization is how it is determined that someone is indeed in Heaven. When it is certain, then they are officially declared a saint.
Catholic friends of mine in them military and in the last few years have, more than once, handed me little cards with a picture of one such specialy "Saint" on one side... and a prayer on the other side. One card was for car trouble, another for when one gets a cold, etc.

I gave specific examples from personal experience.

It actually reminds me of super heroes... each one with different powers, coming to the rescue.

[bar Jonah]

The process of canonization is how it is determined that someone is indeed in Heaven. When it is certain, then they are officially declared a saint.
What are the basic points that are covered in canonization? This includes evidence that there have been several miracles, does it not? How does that relate to the overall body of saints today, in Christendom, and the question of whether they are really saved?

[rossum]

What is a saint according to the various religions? How does that compare with the Bible definition of a saint?
The rough equivalents of a saint in Buddhism are:
Buddha - rediscovers the path to enlightenment, follows it and teaches others to follow it.
Private Buddha - rediscovers the path to enlightenment, follows it but does not teach others.
Bodhisattva - follows the path almost to the end but remains in the world for many rebirths to help others on the path. Will eventually be a Buddha.
Arhat - follows the path to the end and is not reborn.
Never Returner - is not reborn on earth, may be reborn in one of the heavens and attain enlightenment there.
Once returner - is reborn at most one more time on earth before attaining enlightenment.
Stream Winner - is reborn at most seven more times before attaining enlightenment.

From what I know of Christianity, Jesus was probably an advanced Bodhisattva, close to becoming a Buddha and the Christian saints cover the range from Bodhisattva down. Buddhists usually rate Jesus and Francis of Assisi highly, but other Christian saints may not even have reached the level of Stream Winner.

rossum

[spl_cadet]

What are the basic points that are covered in canonization?

he Catholic Church canonizes or beatifies only those whose lives have been marked by the exercise of heroic virtue, and only after this has been proved by common repute for sanctity and by conclusive arguments. The chief difference [from apotheosis], however, lies in the meaning of the term canonization, the Church seeing in the saints nothing more than friends and servants of God whose holy lives have made them worthy of His special love.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm


This includes evidence that there have been several miracles, does it not?

Yes. One for beatification and one for canonization if memory serves me.


How does that relate to the overall body of saints today, in Christendom, and the question of whether they are really saved?

As we do not believe in the doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved, the concept of "really saved" is not applicable to Catholicism.

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

What is a saint?
It's the first half of the name of my hometown.

[Jude3b]

According to the Bible, ALL true Christians are saints. Thus, the writings of Paul to Christians at Ephesus, Philippi, Corinth, or Rome, were addressed "to the saints" (Eph. 1:1, etc.). Saints, it should be noticed, were living people, not those who had died.

When Romanists want a "saint" to pray for them, according to the Roman Catholic definition of a saint, who has already died, WHAT ELSE IS THAT BUT A FORM OF SPIRITISM? Repeatedly the Bible condems all attempts to commune with the dead (See Isaiah 8:19, 20).

If we want a "saint" to pray for us, it must be a living person who is born-again, with Jesus Christ alone as their Lord and Savior. Amen.

Sincerely, Jude 3b

[goldenchild]

If we want a "saint" to pray for us, it must be a living person who is born-again, with Jesus Christ alone as their Lord and Savior. Amen.
So, then, God is not the God of those that have died and gone to heaven? Does His law not apply to them still, even while in heaven?

[Jude3b]

There is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus!
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[bar Jonah]

According to the Bible, ALL true Christians are saints. Thus, the writings of Paul to Christians at Ephesus, Philippi, Corinth, or Rome, were addressed "to the saints" (Eph. 1:1, etc.). Saints, it should be noticed, were living people, not those who had died.

When Romanists want a "saint" to pray for them, according to the Roman Catholic definition of a saint, who has already died, WHAT ELSE IS THAT BUT A FORM OF SPIRITISM? Repeatedly the Bible condems all attempts to commune with the dead (See Isaiah 8:19, 20).

If we want a "saint" to pray for us, it must be a living person who is born-again, with Jesus Christ alone as their Lord and Savior. Amen.

Sincerely, Jude 3b
Yes, but you have to realize they get a lot of this junk from Bible v.2.0 .... :lol:

They believe there are divinely inspired writings in addition to the Bible. So, explaining that these things are not biblical is usually irrelevant to them. (I guess God just forgot to include it in the 1400 or so pages of scripture.)

[Jude3b]

Dear Right Idea: Your right my brother. But how to get through to Romanists and other Religionists without using the Word of God. It is the only way - God blesses His Word and it will not return unto Him void. Amen.
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[emulator]

So let me get this straight...
the (pope?) decides who has gotten into heaven and then he declares them a saint. Right?
Or does God actually tell only the pope (a man) which people will get into heaven (eventually?)
When does the Catholic church believe the judgement will or did or does happen?
So, if the (pope?) knows who is going to get to heaven before the rest of us do, then why doesn't he just let us know if we're going to heaven?
Sounds a lot like satan clause, does he know who will go to hell also?

Romans 10: 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'[2] " (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[3] " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

[spl_cadet]

So let me get this straight...
the (pope?) decides who has gotten into heaven and then he declares them a saint. Right?
Or does God actually tell only the pope (a man) which people will get into heaven (eventually?)

The Church investigates and is able to determine (through heroic virtue or martyrdom and miracles after death) that they are in Heaven. Do we know everyone in Heaven? Of course not. There are millions in Heaven, but less than two thousand have been canonized. Canonization is just a formal "We know they are there" thing.


When does the Catholic church believe the judgement will or did or does happen?

Two judgments. The Specific occurs after death. The General occurs at the second coming and ressurection of the dead.

[bar Jonah]

The Church investigates and is able to determine (through heroic virtue or martyrdom and miracles after death) that they are in Heaven. Do we know everyone in Heaven? Of course not. There are millions in Heaven, but less than two thousand have been canonized. Canonization is just a formal "We know they are there" thing.



Two judgments. The Specific occurs after death. The General occurs at the second coming and ressurection of the dead.
You didn't answer my question in another thread ... Are you stating, then, that every true Christian has several demonstrable miracles in their life? :nsm:

After all, I am a saint, indwelled by God's Holy Spirit, having received the baptism of the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, called by Him to preach His gospel to the world. Should I expect such miracles, even though I don't believe they will happen?

[spl_cadet]

You didn't answer my question in another thread ... Are you stating, then, that every true Christian has several demonstrable miracles in their life? :nsm:

No. The miracles that I am referring to are after death, as a result of their intercession, ie I pray to so and so, who lived a great Catholic life, and ask him to pray for me for God to heal me of my terminal cancer (oft times we simply ask for the saint to heal us, it's a semantic thing, as it is all through the power of God). Next day, it's gone. That would be such a miracle.

[bar Jonah]

So these miracles don't happen in the life of the sanit... And I'll be interceding on behalf of folks like you someday, so that miracles will manifest themselves then?

And how is it a semantic thing for you to ask a saint to heal you? What's semantic about that? Is the saint going to heal you, nor not? :rihrm:

[spl_cadet]

So these miracles don't happen in the life of the sanit...

Correct, though miracles may happen in the life of a saint (Padre Pio is a great example).


And I'll be interceding on behalf of folks like you someday, so that miracles will manifest themselves then?

They can. But you'd never be canonized since you're a Prot :tongue:


And how is it a semantic thing for you to ask a saint to heal you? What's semantic about that? Is the saint going to heal you, nor not? :rihrm:

Semantic in that it is God that heals, through the intercession and prayers of the saint. But it's just easier to say "Heal me."

[bar Jonah]

Correct, though miracles may happen in the life of a saint (Padre Pio is a great example).
Highly debatable, but not something we can really debate here. Very well, you answered my question.


They can. But you'd never be canonized since you're a Prot :tongue:
I have no wish to be canonized. I'm a new creation in Christ. I don't need some men to tell me I'm Heaven-bound.


Semantic in that it is God that heals, through the intercession and prayers of the saint. But it's just easier to say "Heal me."
Oh, good. Then I can also worship such men, and cry "Semantics!" as well?

[spl_cadet]

Oh, good. Then I can also worship such men, and cry "Semantics!" as well?

Only if you used the old meaning of worship :tongue:

[Jude3b]

A saint is a believer in Christ and trusts only in Christ for their salvation. That saint may have already left their earthly body and gone to heaven or they may still be here on earth in their earthly body. Sincerely, Jude 3b

[Twilly Spree]

You can think of saints as a Catholic "Hall of Fame" like in athletics. They are people that the Church has pointed out as model Christians. As a Catholic we can look up to them for help and guidance.

[bar Jonah]

Only if you used the old meaning of worship :tongue:
Aaaand here we go with the equivocation. :lol:

Now you have more than one kind of worship, and it's okay to worship dead men? :rihrm:


You can think of saints as a Catholic "Hall of Fame" like in athletics. They are people that the Church has pointed out as model Christians. As a Catholic we can look up to them for help and guidance.
Sorry, Twilly, but even the Catholics here, including most notably Spl_Cadet, explain that all Christian believers are saints. Including you and me! :rigreen:

[spl_cadet]

Aaaand here we go with the equivocation.

Now you have more than one kind of worship, and it's okay to worship dead men?


The old meaning of the word worship was honor. That's why judges in Britain are addressed as Your Worship.

Modern meaning of worship though is verboten for anyone other than God.

[Rahab]

Considering that the word sanctified means "set apart", I lean to believe that saints are simply people who believe on Christ Jesus for their salvation. They are "set apart" from the "world" that is folks who either do not follow that belief or have no belief whatsoever. They are set apart in the sense that the final destination of their soul is depending soly on Christ. That is of course if one believes salvation to be by Grace rather than any priviledge resulting from meriting or earning salvation.
I do not know if God in His Word has given any authority to any men to elevate the degree of sanctification of believers who are part of the Body of Christ. It is my understanding that God will reward some in Heaven at various degrees according to His Evaluation of how they lived their lives as christians. But I am not aware of that Authority to be shared with any man or organized church.
I would also say that the fact that " our treasures are in Heaven" deals with questions as to whether or not believers can elevate the status of sanctification of other believers alive or dead.

There is also another factor to consider as to the legitimacy of any church doctrine encouraging sanctification degrees. If one considers God to be the sole detainer of pure and direct access of any intent behind our thoughts and feelings, we as humans are bound to fail in evaluating the degree of rewards to be attributed in Heaven. In other words, God cannot be decieved by appearances and will filter thru any of our motivations and intent. Men do not have that divine ability. What we claim here on earth may very well not be validated by God in Heaven. We do not have His Knowledge.

The downfall of human sanctification thru church doctrine has propelled so many to worship a statue and attribute to it some sort of "miraculous" effect. I recall in so many churches of Naples Italy being struck by the proheminance and abundance of images and statues glorifying all sorts of "saints" yet often finding a lesser representation of Christ. Processions such as the yearly one in the village I lived in in Sicily (Trecastagni) where a piece of the tongue of the most venerated saint was exhibited in a box.... masses struggling to touch that box. Same with San Gennaro in Naples which causes folks to go into extreme despair or exhultation if his blood liquifies or does not liquify.

So many homes will have an image of Padre Pio (at times an actual mini altar) but the occupants of those homes have yet to entrust Christ for their salvation. Symbols revolving around Christ are there...... but the understanding and acceptance of His Uniqueness are not.

I also wonder if a faithful servant of God wishes to be elevated or cannonized or given any particular glorifying title......

[Jude3b]

According to Scripture anyone who is born again by faith in Christ is a saint. "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" (Ephesians 4:11-12)

[Jude3b]

So why did Romanism discard the scriptural definition of a "saint" and devise a new one, then instruct its member to pray to the unscriptural "saints?"

[bar Jonah]

So why did Romanism discard the scriptural definition of a "saint" and devise a new one, then instruct its member to pray to the unscriptural "saints?"
Because they know that now that we live in the Information Age and it's easier than ever for Christians to see the truth in the Bible for themselves, that their older definition is now indefensible.

[Jude3b]

Because they know that now that we live in the Information Age and it's easier than ever for Christians to see the truth in the Bible for themselves, that their older definition is now indefensible.

Your right, it truly is indefensible. I always like to ask Roman Catholic - why pray to anyone else when the God of the universe is in heaven waiting to hear and answer prayers?

[Jude3b]

Romanism discards the Bible definition of a "saint" and devised a new one, then instructed members to pray to these unscriptural "saints."

The question is, why pray to anyone else when the God of the universe is in heaven waiting to hear and answer prayers?

[BibleMan]

What is a saint according to the various religions? How does that compare with the Bible definition of a saint?


A saint is every saved child of God. All who are born-again, are saints, whether still here on earth or already in eternity in Heaven.

[Joe Gofish]

According to the Catholic Church, a saint, properly called, is one of the Blessed in Heaven.

Katholish, Just gave you a very good answer but you will not understand , You believe in the OSAS and do not know what they call the Blessed in heaven.

[The Reconciler]

Katholish, Just gave you a very good answer but you will not understand , You believe in the OSAS and do not know what they call the Blessed in heaven.



Well I'm a saint and I haven't left for heaven yet. I've been a saint since Jesus came into my heart.:sigh:

[Joe Gofish]

There is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus!
Sincerely, Jude 3b

Another of Jude many vserse out of context.

[Joe Gofish]

According to the Bible, ALL true Christians are saints. Thus, the writings of Paul to Christians at Ephesus, Philippi, Corinth, or Rome, were addressed "to the saints" (Eph. 1:1, etc.). Saints, it should be noticed, were living people, not those who had died.

When Romanists want a "saint" to pray for them, according to the Roman Catholic definition of a saint, who has already died, WHAT ELSE IS THAT BUT A FORM OF SPIRITISM? Repeatedly the Bible condems all attempts to commune with the dead (See Isaiah 8:19, 20).

If we want a "saint" to pray for us, it must be a living person who is born-again, with Jesus Christ alone as their Lord and Savior. Amen.

Sincerely, Jude 3b

Jude Don't be so confused all the time,We are the body of Christ are you saying after we die we are no longer in the body of Christ,If I can ask you to pray for me here on earth why can't I ask someone in heaven to pray for me.
Jude you do make a good point of reading Acts 8:31 guidance needed to interpret scriptures

[Joe Gofish]

What is a saint according to the various religions? How does that compare with the Bible definition of a saint?

Jude is reading from his own bible and thinks if some one passes he/she is out of the body of christ,after we die we are still in the body of Christ,and Jude can't find that in the gospel according to Jude. LOL