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mikewhitney
08-15-2018, 02:52 PM
I wanted to make a quick intro to the idea that the details of the coming of Messiah were built around cultural insights beyond scripture.

I'm not ready to discuss in detail but thought it would be worthwhile to start a thread.

There were ideas from scripture which weren't clearly laid out.

The term "Messiah" as a title wasn't explicit in scripture but there expectancy for a king of the branch of David with an eternal throne. But the title was introduced by Rabbi Akiba (Dunn,NPP2005,293-3).

There was not mention of who would fill the second throne in Dan 7:9-14 except an implied sense that this would be one called the Son of Man.

Jesus came in accord with expectations for the time and circumstances of the Messiah within the culture. He met requirements that of OT prophecy but also fulfilled ideas expected simply within the culture.

Any thoughts on this?

lee_merrill
08-16-2018, 04:37 PM
The term "Messiah" as a title wasn't explicit in scripture but there expectancy for a king of the branch of David with an eternal throne. But the title was introduced by Rabbi Akiba (Dunn,NPP2005,293-3).
Isn't Daniel 9:25-26 ("the Anointed One" NIV) a usage of the title of Messiah?


Jesus came in accord with expectations for the time and circumstances of the Messiah within the culture. He met requirements that of OT prophecy but also fulfilled ideas expected simply within the culture.
I don't know enough of the culture to be able to speak to this, but I have heard that expectation was high around this time (cf. Luke 3:15, John 1:20). And Jesus fulfilled Andrew's expectations well enough for him to say "We have found the Messiah" (John 1:41).

Blessings,
Lee

mikewhitney
08-16-2018, 05:42 PM
Isn't Daniel 9:25-26 ("the Anointed One" NIV) a usage of the title of Messiah?

the ESV shows:

Daniel 9:26 (ESV)
26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

The mention of anointed one is not as a title but just that the person would be anointed (a priest or king ... like a king here).




I don't know enough of the culture to be able to speak to this, but I have heard that expectation was high around this time (cf. Luke 3:15, John 1:20). And Jesus fulfilled Andrew's expectations well enough for him to say "We have found the Messiah" (John 1:41).


Indeed. It seems there were people expecting the Messiah by the time Jesus appeared in the land. Many expected this based on Daniel.

I don't have specifics but I remember hearing that Jesus met some expectations that may not have been a matter of prophecy. I'm a little unsure this fits -- but Jesus healed a man born blind; this may have been a miracle expected only to be possible by the Messiah. People may have known cases where someone was temporarily blind but got their sight back.

37818
08-17-2018, 09:07 AM
The Hebrew for "anointed [one]" is Hebrew for an anointed king, priest and/or Messiah. (Daniel 9:26)

mikewhitney
08-17-2018, 10:21 AM
The Hebrew for "anointed [one]" is Hebrew for an anointed king, priest and/or Messiah. (Daniel 9:26)

Right. But there was a time when the "a king" became more of a designation or title of a specific person. It was an idea I heard a long time ago so it may not be even something useful.

37818
08-17-2018, 10:36 AM
Right. But there was a time when the "a king" became more of a designation or title of a specific person. It was an idea I heard a long time ago so it may not be even something useful.

Matthew's genealogy of kings, of anointed ones [i.e. christs].

mikewhitney
08-19-2018, 10:36 AM
One area of confusion in the pre-Christ years was the description of both a victorious king and of someone (king) that had died (Dan 9). These didn't logically translate into being the same person. Of course, it is easy to envision that the prophecies were talking about mere men since no concept of divine-man appeared except in rough ways such as the appearance of the Lord to Abraham.

It is interesting that Jesus spoke of the sign of Jonah. This was used to express the resurrection of Jesus in 3 days. We may have an answer as to how Jonah survived in the fish. It seems he should have died. Is that what actually happened? Did Jonah die and then was raised from the dead being spewed from the fish?