Does the Eucharist help the Dead?

[Jude3b]

Partaking of the Eucharist purportedly gives Roman Catholics who are still alive an opportunity to help the dead. How is that possible?

[goldenchild]

Never heard of such a thing. You'll need to back that up with evidence to make such a claim.

[Twilly Spree]

Wha....um where did you get that?

[spl_cadet]

The Mass can help those in purgatory, but not reception of the Eucharist to my knowledge.

[Jude3b]

The Council of Trent declared: "The sacrifice (in the Mass) is identical with the sacrifice of the Cross, inasmuch as Jesus Christ is a priest and victim both. The only difference lies in the manner of offering, which is bloody upon the cross and bloodless on our altars."
The Church of Rome holds that the mass is a continuation of the sacrifice that Christ made on Calvary, that it is in reality a re-crucifixion of our Lord over and over again, in an unbloody manner. It also holds that this sacrifice is just as efficacious to take away sin as was the sacrifice on Calvary. The mass, therefore, is not a memorial, but a ritual in which the bread and wine are transformed into the literal flesh and blood of Christ, which is then offered as a true sacrifice by the priest. The only difference is the manner in which the two are made. Rome thus claims to continue an act which the Scriptures say was completed nearly two thousand years ago.
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[spl_cadet]

The Council of Trent declared: "The sacrifice (in the Mass) is identical with the sacrifice of the Cross, inasmuch as Jesus Christ is a priest and victim both. The only difference lies in the manner of offering, which is bloody upon the cross and bloodless on our altars."
The Church of Rome holds that the mass is a continuation of the sacrifice that Christ made on Calvary, that it is in reality a re-crucifixion of our Lord over and over again, in an unbloody manner.

He, therefore, our God and Lord, though He was about to offer Himself once on the altar of the cross unto God the Father, by means of his death, there to operate an eternal redemption; nevertheless, because that His priesthood was not to be extinguished by His death, in the last supper, on the night in which He was betrayed,--that He might leave, to His own beloved Spouse the Church, a visible sacrifice, such as the nature of man requires, whereby that bloody sacrifice, once to be accomplished on the cross, might be represented, and the memory thereof remain even unto the end of the world, and its salutary virtue be applied to the remission of those sins which we daily commit,--declaring Himself constituted a priest for ever, according to the order of Melchisedech, He offered up to God the Father His own body and blood under the species of bread and wine; and, under the symbols of those same things, He delivered (His own body and blood) to be received by His apostles, whom He then constituted priests of the New Testament; and by those words, Do this in commemoration of me, He commanded them and their successors in the priesthood, to offer (them); even as the Catholic Church has always understood and taught.

Chapter 1 of the 22nd Session of the Council of Trent.


It also holds that this sacrifice is just as efficacious to take away sin as was the sacrifice on Calvary.

Well yeah, because it re-presents that same sacrifice.

[Jude3b]

Back to the question of this thread:
"The Eucharistic sacrifice is also offered for the faithful departed who 'have died in Christ but are not yet wholly purified, so that they may be able to enter into the light and peace of Christ." (Catechism Page 343, #1371)

"In the Eucharist, the Church expresses her efficacious communion with the departed..." (Catechism Page 420 #1689)

This heart-tugging doctrine indoctrinates Roman Catholics with the belief that regularly receiving the Eucharist will help their departed loved ones reach heaven faster.
If this doctrine is of God, then you should obey it. But if it's a tradition devised by men to keep people in bondage to a church, then it is a cruel and heartless method of controlling people.

YOU CAN SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES FROM BEGINNING TO END, BUT YOU WILL NOT FIND THE EUCHARIST HELPING A SINGLE DEAD PERSON.

This Catholic tradition is not only absent from God's Word, it directly violates it as well. "SO THEN EVERY ONE OF US SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT OF HIMSELF TO GOD." (Romans 14:12)

Sincerely, Jude 3b

[rocketman]

Back to the question of this thread:
"The Eucharistic sacrifice is also offered for the faithful departed who 'have died in Christ but are not yet wholly purified, so that they may be able to enter into the light and peace of Christ." (Catechism Page 343, #1371)

"In the Eucharist, the Church expresses her efficacious communion with the departed..." (Catechism Page 420 #1689)

This heart-tugging doctrine indoctrinates Roman Catholics with the belief that regularly receiving the Eucharist will help their departed loved ones reach heaven faster.
If this doctrine is of God, then you should obey it. But if it's a tradition devised by men to keep people in bondage to a church, then it is a cruel and heartless method of controlling people.

YOU CAN SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES FROM BEGINNING TO END, BUT YOU WILL NOT FIND THE EUCHARIST HELPING A SINGLE DEAD PERSON.

This Catholic tradition is not only absent from God's Word, it directly violates it as well. "SO THEN EVERY ONE OF US SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT OF HIMSELF TO GOD." (Romans 14:12)

Sincerely, Jude 3b

Jude, the Church exists ourside of this world. There are three "bodies" of the Church...the Church Triumphant in Heaven, the Church Militant on Earth, and the Church Suffering in Purgatory. Through communion, we express our unity with those in all three realms.

[Jude3b]

I'm sorry, what verse is that Rocketman?

[rocketman]

I'm sorry, what verse is that Rocketman?

I was simply providing a quick and simple explanation of what your quote of the CCC was referring to. The Eucharist puts us in Communion with all who are part of the Church. This includes those who have passed from this world.

To elaborate...the Eucharist is Jesus' Holy Body and Blood. Through it, we are received into the Body of Christ. The members of the other two realms are also part of His Body. The Eucharist provides the spiritual bond between the parts of the body. Now, those in Purgatory have not been wholly purified, and they suffer. When part of the Body suffers, the whole Body is stricken. When it receives its "medicine" so to speak, the whole Body is healed.

The problem we are experinecing in this discussion is this...Catholicism has levels of theology that build upon each other and connect to each other. You are questioning something that rests on other principles, which in turn rest on other principles. The first thing obviously would be to come to an understanding regarding those first principles, like whether Purgatory exists and if the Eucharist is really Jesus' Body and Blood. My Biblical evidence for the above doctrine is presupposed in these first doctrines, and then built upon. So, no I cannot provide a verse that says "The Eucharist helps those in Purgatory." But that very statement shows that this doctrine is based on two others that you and I don't agree on anyways. So your question here is pointless until we work out other issues.

[Jude3b]

"IN THEE, O LORD, DO I PUT MY TRUST: LET ME NEVER BE PUT TO CONFUSION." (Psalm 71:1)

[rocketman]

"IN THEE, O LORD, DO I PUT MY TRUST: LET ME NEVER BE PUT TO CONFUSION." (Psalm 71:1)

If this is a prayer that we may understand each other, then amen.

If this somehow is supposed to refute my previous post, I am missing its importance...

[Jude3b]

To cleanse you from past sins and protect you from future sins, Catholicism demands that you look to a piece of bread. To obey this Roman Catholic doctrine, you must reject Holy Scriptures.

[spl_cadet]

To cleanse you from past sins and protect you from future sins, Catholicism demands that you look to a piece of bread. To obey this Roman Catholic doctrine, you must reject Holy Scriptures.

Funny, every catechism I've read says it was the Crucifixion that saved us from our sins.

[Jude3b]

OK SPL:

I thought you knew your catechism! "By the same charity that it enkindles in us, the Eucharist preserves us from future mortal sins." (Page 353, #1395)


"....the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (I John 1:7)

[spl_cadet]

OK SPL:

I thought you knew your catechism! "By the same charity that it enkindles in us, the Eucharist preserves us from future mortal sins." (Page 353, #1395)


"....the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (I John 1:7)

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
169 Salvation comes from God alone;

1741 Liberation and salvation. By his glorious Cross Christ has won salvation for all men. He redeemed them from the sin that held them in bondage. "For freedom Christ has set us free." In him we have communion with the "truth that makes us free." The Holy Spirit has been given to us and, as the Apostle teaches, "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." Already we glory in the "liberty of the children of God."

608 After agreeing to baptize him along with the sinners, John the Baptist looked at Jesus and pointed him out as the "Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world" By doing so, he reveals that Jesus is at the same time the suffering Servant who silently allows himself to be led to the slaughter and who bears the sin of the multitudes, and also the Paschal Lamb, the symbol of Israel's redemption at the first Passover. Christ's whole life expresses his mission: "to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

615 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous. "By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who "makes himself an offering for sin", when "he bore the sin of many", and who "shall make many to be accounted righteous", for "he shall bear their iniquities". Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.

617 The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ's sacrifice as "the source of eternal salvation and teaches that "his most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us. And the Church venerates his cross as she sings: "Hail, O Cross, our only hope."

619 "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" (I Cor 15:3). 620 Our salvation flows from God's initiative of love for us, because "he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins" (I Jn 4:10). "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself" (2 Cor 5:19).

The redemption won by Christ consists in this, that he came "to give his life as a ransom for many" (Mt 20:28), that is, he "loved [his own] to the end" (Jn 13:1), so that they might be "ransomed from the futile ways inherited from [their] fathers" (I Pt 1:18).

623 By his loving obedience to the Father, "unto death, even death on a cross" (Phil 2:8), Jesus fulfills the atoning mission (cf. Is 53:10) of the suffering Servant, who will "make many righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities" (Is 53:11; cf. Rom 5:19).

[Jude3b]

Dear SpL:
I never said the Catechism was all lies, or that it didn't contain some truth. What you just quoted was Scriptural. What I have been pointing out from the Catechism, are the statements that disagree with the Word of God.
Know this, it is vital that you not blindly follow anyone. Final authority belongs to God and His Word, not with Rome.
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[Jude3b]

"...He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (John 5:24)

Why is the tradition of the Roman Catholic church so diametrically opposed to God's Holy Word?

[Jude3b]

I've searched the Scriptures from beginning to end, but never have I found that the Eucharist could help a single dead person.

[Twilly Spree]

Again I have NEVER head this. Where are you getting this? What kind of freak Catholic church did you "supposedly" attend. Or who made you think this way?

[Jude3b]

Again I have NEVER head this. Where are you getting this? What kind of freak Catholic church did you "supposedly" attend. Or who made you think this way?

"The Eucharistic sacrifice is also offered for the faithful departed who 'have died in Christ but are not yet wholly purified, so that they may be able to enter into the light and peace of Christ.'" (The Catechism Page 345, #1371).

The above Catechism quote is never mentioned in Scripture. It also violates the Word of God: "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." (Romans 14:12).

PS, I attended Holy Spirit Catholic School in New Hyde Park., New York and went to Holy Spirit Catholic Chruch. I went on and attended Holy Cross High School in Flushing, New York. I was taught Roman Catholic Religion/Theology everday of school for all the years that I went to their schools and I served as an Altar Boy for several years.

[Twilly Spree]

So why did you leave Catholicism? And then grow to hate it?

[Jude3b]

So why did you leave Catholicism? And then grow to hate it?

I left Roman Catholicism when I became a Christian. After 27 years as a Roman Catholic and having never been presented the pure Gospel message the whole time I was part of that religion- it was so wonderful to finally receive the truth, accept God's Love by receiving Jesus Christ as my personal Savior and Lord and being set free from the bondages of Religion and a works based maybe so, hope so salvation.
After receiving Jesus Christ as personal savior during a Billy Graham crusade on August 29, 1977 - I simply could not put down my Bible. I read it for hours every day - fell fully in love with God and His Word. It is awesome and Jesus is awesome. His love is beyond description.
About not liking Roman Catholicism. God says in His Word, "I hate every false way" - you see God is not religious. He provided salvation for his children. There is no other way to heaven, but by Jesus Christ and what He has done for us already. As the Word says, we are "saved by grace through faith." The Bible uniquely teaches salvation through faith alone. Roman Catholicism is a false religion because it teaches salvation through faith plus works.
I love precious Roman Catholic people, precious Mormon people, precious Orthodox Eastern Catholics, precious Jews, precious Religious people from all religions. Being an ex Roman Catholic myself, I understand the religion and will share with Roman Catholics the truth of the Word of God when the opportunity presents itself. All the religions of the World have salvation plus works as their basis. The principle is universal although the specific list of works required will vary from one religion to another.
Biblical Christianity alone, compared to all the religions of mankind, teaches that eternal salvation is the free gift of God's grace, to be received by faith alone, apart from works of any kind. Romanism says "Believe and do"; Christianity says "Believe and live."
The uniqueness of salvation by grace through faith alone clearly stamps the Christian Gospel as divine in origin. Time is short. Jesus is coming back and we all need to ready to meet him. Not based on what we have been told by Religious teachers, but based on the Love Jesus has for us and what He has told us in His Word, the Bible.
I love you Twilly and all you precious Religious people reading this.

[Jude3b]

The Bible declares that after death, everyone faces God for judgment. There are no more chances: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after that the judgment:" (Hebrews 9:27).

Those who do not put their faith in Christ alone while they are alive are already condemned to hell: (see John 3:18).

Are you trusting in your Roman Catholic Religion to save you? The wrath of God abides on those who die without Christ (see John 3:36)

[Joe Gofish]

Partaking of the Eucharist purportedly gives Roman Catholics who are still alive an opportunity to help the dead. How is that possible?

ANOTHER OF THE MANY statements from the CCC jude has taken out of context.