Venial and Mortal Sins, is that Biblical???

[Jude3b]

The Roman Catholic religion indoctrinates Catholis with the notion that there are varying degrees of sin, venial and mortal. What does the Bible teach on this subject?

[goldenchild]

I just wanted to let you know that I noticed many, many threads of yours that have not been addressed yet, including this one. When I have the time, if you will be patient and wait for me, I will address as many of them as I have time for. Just to start... Yes they are very biblical. I will get you the verses as soon as possible.

[AcousticJS]

I'm no Catholic, but I do believe there is at least a two-tier system to sin. John talks about it in 1 John 5:16-17. He clearly distinguishes between sins that lead to death and sins that don't lead to death. He doesn't elaborate on what those particular sins are, but they clearly exist.

In a similar way, there is at least one sin that according to Jesus is unforgivable - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. He says that blasphemy against the Father and the Son are forgivable, but not blasphemy against the Spirit. I'd suggest that this is one of the sins John has in mind when drawing the distinction between severity of sins.

God bless
Jon

[Amazing Rando]

In a similar way, there is at least one sin that according to Jesus is unforgivable - blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. He says that blasphemy against the Father and the Son are forgivable, but not blasphemy against the Spirit. I'd suggest that this is one of the sins John has in mind when drawing the distinction between severity of sins.

God bless
Jon

That's something that's always bugged me- what exactly does Jesus mean when he says that blasphemy against the spirit is unforgiveable? What are the implications of this: Matthew 12:
31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Anybody have any ideas?

[nomad]

count your blessings that no one knows :) otherwise, there would be thousands of disaffected angst-filled teenagers adding it to the list of things to do to annoy their parents.

[Ryokan]

The Roman Catholic religion indoctrinates Catholis with the notion that there are varying degrees of sin, venial and mortal. What does the Bible teach on this subject?
The church would say it is a tradition, and it doesn't need biblical verification because the bible isn't the end all be all on the word of God. They'd say the Church follows the teachings of the Christ and his disciples, not the bible.

[rocketman]

The church would say it is a tradition, and it doesn't need biblical verification because the bible isn't the end all be all on the word of God. They'd say the Church follows the teachings of the Christ and his disciples, not the bible.


Check out 1 John 5:16-17 and Luke 12:47-48. They support the idea of mortal and venial sin. This is also backed up by ECFs.

Tradition illuminates the Scripture, it does not replace it. Scripture can be considered a bright but fuzzy light. Tradition is the lens which clarifies and sharpens it. The lens is useless without the light. The light is confusing without the lens.

[Ryokan]

Check out 1 John 5:16-17 and Luke 12:47-48. They support the idea of mortal and venial sin. This is also backed up by ECFs.

Tradition illuminates the Scripture, it does not replace it. Scripture can be considered a bright but fuzzy light. Tradition is the lens which clarifies and sharpens it. The lens is useless without the light. The light is confusing without the lens.
Noticing the text under your name, were you too Jesuit trained?

[rocketman]

Noticing the text under your name, were you too Jesuit trained?

Heh, no actually I'm referring to Ignatius of Antioch there. Jesuits tend to creep me out nowadays. I would personally be a Dominican.

[Ryokan]

Heh, no actually I'm referring to Ignatius of Antioch there. Jesuits tend to creep me out nowadays. I would personally be a Dominican.
Ah! Too bad. What so creepy about the Jesuits that isn't creepy about the fathers of the Inquisition? :wink:

[rocketman]

Ah! Too bad. What so creepy about the Jesuits that isn't creepy about the fathers of the Inquisition? :wink:

Oh, I got nothing against the Fathers of the Inquisition :teeth:

There are many Jesuit scholars today that are the leaders of the modernist heresy within the Church. It's a big problem. They go way off the deep end, like, "It's okay to think that the Resurrection was merely metaphorical." :brood: :rant: :argh:

[elysian]

All sin is displeasing to God, and all sin leads to death. However certain sins can lead to greater implications here on Earth- murder carries greater consequences than stealing a pack of gum.

I think the severity of a sin can also be determined in how does it separate us from God? It's easier to ask forgiveness for going 5 miles over the speed limit because we're in a hurry than it is to ask forgiveness for engaging in sexual activity with someone other than one's spouse, or for stealing millions of dollars or killing someone.

But yes, in God's eyes if not for Jesus' sacrifice in our place if we never did anything wrong other than going over the speed limit ONE time, we would be guilty of violating the whole law- as if we've killed, committed adultery, stolen, the whole "do not do" list. We humans have proven that we are not capable of adhering to the law and we are desperately in need of God's grace.

Sin also deceives us- if we are caught in a bondage (say, drunkenness or illicit sex, or stealing) we find excuses to rationalize our sin, until we finally fail to see it as sin. This further separates us from God's will, which is for us to confess our sin, to be forgiven of it, and to seek His power and grace to overcome our sin.

[Jude3b]

The Bible simply says: "The wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23) - Paul was not speaking of any particular kind of sin, but of all sin. Ezekiel says: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (18:4). When James said, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all (2:10), he meant, not that the person who commits one sin is guilty of all other kinds of sin, but that even one sin unrepented of shuts a person out of heaven and subjects him to punishment, just as surely as one puncture of the eyeball subjects a person to blindness. In the light of these verses, the distinction between mortal and venial sins is shown to be arbitrary and absurd.
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[goldenchild]

"If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly." 1 Jn 5:16-17

[Jude3b]

Dear Goldenchild: That verse is telling us that all sin is forgivable, except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Mt. 12:31-32), since this sin is the only one unto death, that is, unforgivable and it is useless to pray for it. That sin, ultimately, refusal to accept Jesus Christ as Savior (John 3:36). No other sin precludes at least the possibility of repentance, faith and forgiveness. Therefore, John told us not to bother praying for someone who has done that. He was not teaching there is Mortal and Venial sins, like Rome teaches.
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[spl_cadet]

Tell me Jude: Do you believe that a Christian can lose their salvation?

[Jude3b]

Dear Spl: (Your question about possibility of loss of salvation)
It is not a subject that I get dogmatic about.
I know I don't want out. Knowing Jesus as personal Lord and Savior- is the only way for me to go. I was very lost - before I got saved, and let me tell you, those nights not being able to sleep and the use of alcohol, etc. to cover up the pain. Well thats not for me every again. When I fell in Love with Jesus, it was forever. He is just to wonderful to ever leave and I know He will never leave me and never forsake me. He is a good God and He is good all the time.
I guess my gut belief is that a true Christian will not lose their salvation, and if someone were to lose their salvation, they were not a true Christian. I say this because I do believe the only way a true Christian would ever be able to lose it, would be to deny Christ - to become apostate. I cannot imagine a true Christian doing that. It seems that a person who would do that never fully trusted in or believe fully On Christ for their salvation and was not born-again.
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[rocketman]

Dear Spl: (Your question about possibility of loss of salvation)
It is not a subject that I get dogmatic about.

Why not? You seem to get dogmatic about everything else...by your own authroity of course...

[spl_cadet]

Dear Spl: (Your question about possibility of loss of salvation)
It is not a subject that I get dogmatic about.
I know I don't want out. Knowing Jesus as personal Lord and Savior- is the only way for me to go. I was very lost - before I got saved, and let me tell you, those nights not being able to sleep and the use of alcohol, etc. to cover up the pain. Well thats not for me every again. When I fell in Love with Jesus, it was forever. He is just to wonderful to ever leave and I know He will never leave me and never forsake me. He is a good God and He is good all the time.
I guess my gut belief is that a true Christian will not lose their salvation, and if someone were to lose their salvation, they were not a true Christian. I say this because I do believe the only way a true Christian would ever be able to lose it, would be to deny Christ - to become apostate. I cannot imagine a true Christian doing that. It seems that a person who would do that never fully trusted in or believe fully On Christ for their salvation and was not born-again.
Sincerely, Jude 3b

So what you're saying is that there are either two levels of sin (apostasy, which damns you, and everything else, which doesn't) or that all sin is inconsequential?

[Jude3b]

We are saved by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. It is called salvation by Grace through Faith (Eph. 2:8 & 9). If someone is believing ON, fully trusting IN Christ, they are saved. If a believer sins, they will confess their sins (I John 1:9).

[spl_cadet]

We are saved by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. It is called salvation by Grace through Faith (Eph. 2:8 & 9). If someone is believing ON, fully trusting IN Christ, they are saved. If a believer sins, they will confess their sins (I John 1:9).


Now now, answer my question. Either you believe in a division of sins or you believe that, for a Christian, all sins are inconsequential.

[Jude3b]

Sin always has consequences. Thank God He paid for all of my sins, that is why when I slip up, I obey His Word and ask His forgiveness (I John 1:9). Jude 3b

[spl_cadet]

Sin always has consequences. Thank God He paid for all of my sins, that is why when I slip up, I obey His Word and ask His forgiveness (I John 1:9). Jude 3b

Don't evade the question. Either you believe in a division of sins or you believe that they are all inconsequential for a Christian since they can't threaten his salvation. Which is it?

[Twilly Spree]

I guess my gut belief is that a true Christian will not lose their salvation, and if someone were to lose their salvation, they were not a true Christian. I say this because I do believe the only way a true Christian would ever be able to lose it, would be to deny Christ - to become apostate. I cannot imagine a true Christian doing that. It seems that a person who would do that never fully trusted in or believe fully On Christ for their salvation and was not born-again.

Circles, and circles, and circles. Is it just me or did this make your head hurt reading it?

Answer cadet's question. Stop talking in circles chief.

[Jude3b]

Twilly:

I've answered spl's question! Perhaps SPL and Twilly, you cannot understand the answer?? All my sin has had consequences - no doubt about it. But my salvation is not based on my hoped for sinless perfection. Instead it is based on the Sinless perfection of my Lord and Savior - who bought me and paid for me and all my sin, with his shed blood. That is salvation by grace through Faith and not of works (Eph. 2:8 & 9). When I slip up now, I repent and confess it according to I John 1:9 and thank God for His mercy on me.

God tells people to come to Him for forgiveness: "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14).

God never requires anyone to go through a Roman Catholic Priest or church to obtain forgiveness of sins. "For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee." (Psalm 86:5)


And when God forgives, He really forgives. No need to be toasted afterwards in Romes purgatory...! "Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities..." (Psalm 103:2-3).

Twilly and SPL, have you considered believing God and His Word? You to can receive the Christ as revealed in the Bible as your very own personal LORD and Savior - and have forgiveness of sin, without the fear of missing it and without going through the burnoff in Purgatory. Think about it. Jesus would love to have you both on His team, instead of Romes. Won't you Call on Him? He's ready and willing to save you both, right now. Amen.

Love you both... Jude 3b

[apologetics]

What I have not seen addressed here in this topic of Venial and Mortal sins is the issue of the sufficiency of Jesus Christ's work on the cross. Roman Catholicism obviously feels that the work was not complete. If their are sins that can be committed after becoming a believer that can negate your choice to accept Christ as your personal savior....then Christ's death was not completely sufficient and Christ lied, or at minimum was in error (and therefore not fully God) when he said "It is finished."

The idea of venial and mortal sins is being supported by two passages (and I would add that using Luke 12:47-48 to support this doctrine is highly suspect). Here we run into one of the first rules of proper Biblical hermaneutics: The plain things are the main things. Can a case be made for this doctrine from 1 John 15-16? Possibly. A weak one, though. Is it as likely that John was referring to something completely different than spirtual death? A reading of many of the most respected Biblical commantaries tends to support this view. Since this topic is not supported either explicitly or tacitly elsewhere (and in fact quite the opposite is supported quite explicitly), we run into difficulty using one passage as support of an entire doctrine....and a doctrine that ends up supporting another doctrine, i.e. purgatory (which is not even implied ANYWHERE else in the Bible.)

Ironcially, Jesus only differentiates between the types of sin one place. Mark 3:28 he states that ALL sins shall be forgiven men with ONE exception....blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. He gives one exception to the use of the term "ALL." If there was a list of mortal sins that could strip away salvation, why didn't he delineate them here? Why is it that Jesus Christ never gave anyone an admonition about certain future sins when he stated that their sins were forgiven?

To claim that this is Biblically supported is a stretch if there ever was a stretch.

[Jude3b]

God's Word declares that salvation is obtained through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, while the Roman Catechism maintains that salvation is only available through the Roman Catholic church.

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved..." (Acts 15:11)

[Jude3b]

Precious Roman Catholics: will you remain in bondage to Catholicism by believing that some sins are worse than others and that continual good works are needed to pay for these various degrees of sin?

[Twilly Spree]

Precious Roman Catholics: will you remain in bondage to Catholicism by believing that some sins are worse than others and that continual good works are needed to pay for these various degrees of sin?


Umm....YES. I rather like RCC. In fact I love it. God is speaking to me through my faith, this is where I fit. You can continue telling me I'm not Christian and a member of some anti-christ cult. But this is where I'm staying.

[Jude3b]

"Thou shalt have no other god's before me" Some people make a god, an idol out of their religion.

God in His great grace and love, sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross to pay the price for all sin once and for all: "But this man (Jesus), after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;" (Hebrews 10:12)

Precious Roman Catholics, true salvation is only avaiable through Jesus Christ because only He could shed sinless blood to pay the penalty for all sin. Salvation is not found in Romanism, only in Jesus Christ. Won't you accept Him and His love for you today?

[Patroclus]

Precious Roman Catholics: will you remain in bondage to Catholicism by believing that some sins are worse than others and that continual good works are needed to pay for these various degrees of sin?

What is the big deal about this one, Jude? What does "deadly" mean? Do you happen to know whether or not one sin will make you more condemned than another? I doubt that is the case. elysian commented about the idea that the human consequences of different sins often come with greater or lesser difficulties of reconciliation with God. For instance, if I lie to somebody, the human remedy is simple: confess to God, and the person against whom you have sinned. If, However, I take heroin (a sin of gluttony), the chances are that I will become addicted in an instant. Now, which is more likely to keep me from God? One is relatively easy to discard, the next grabs ahold of your life.

My English students are going through Paradise Lost right now (it may do you well to keep in mind that the doctrine of seven deadly sins is not specific to the RCC, but has been widely embraced for most of Christian history - and with good reason), and it behooves us to study how Milton uses the seven deadly sins:

1. Lust - The desire for something one should not have
2. Sloth - The desire for gain without work
3. Gluttony - The desire for more than what one needs
4. Wrath - The desire for harm against another person
5. Greed - The desire for much when others have little
6. Envy - The desire for the possession(s) of your neighbor
7. Pride - The presumption of the entitlement to sinful our desires

The principle for Milton is that there is a difference between slavery and action. An act is an expenditure of agency by a free and conscious being. "Consequently, all acts are good" (Frye "The Story of All Things"). In other words, once one sins, one is unable to not sin because that person has relinquished his/her free will. The only freedom to act is in innocence, or grace. Furthermore, all sins are connected with these seven sins (or more percisely, exercises in gratifying one's self-esteem). Therefore, the commission of a sin is necessarily the comission of at least one of the seven deady "root" sins (if you will), and ensnare you beyond hope (outside of the grace of God).

[Jude3b]

If your a saved, born-again Christian: "Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (I Cor. 15:34)

[Columba]

If your a saved, born-again Christian: "Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (I Cor. 15:34)
Jude, I know this may come as a shock to you,but this doctrine of being "saved by being born again" is pretty new...and if you accept it in its entirety, then you are also saying that nobody, for two thousand years, was saved until this doctrine was either a) revealed or b) perfected

It is in a word, absurd.

[Agent Yoshi]

The Roman Catholic religion indoctrinates Catholis with the notion that there are varying degrees of sin, venial and mortal. What does the Bible teach on this subject?

What does 'venial' mean?

[Columba]

There are venial sins and mortal sins
I understand that that venial means just contrary to the law, and mortal sin is something far more serious that could jeopardize a person's soul.

[Jude3b]

Jude, I know this may come as a shock to you,but this doctrine of being "saved by being born again" is pretty new...and if you accept it in its entirety, then you are also saying that nobody, for two thousand years, was saved until this doctrine was either a) revealed or b) perfected

It is in a word, absurd.

First- What do you understand "born again" to be? How is one "born again" to you?

Second- Being saved by Grace through Faith is not new, it is as old as Genesis 3:15 for whosoever will...! There is only one way to be saved (i.e. born-again) - Jesus Christ gave us that way - it is HE, Himself. He is the way, the truth and the life. There is no other name whereby we must be saved. This was true from Genesis 3:15 and will be true until the return of Jesus for His church, the church of God - the body of Christ. Old testament believers were saved by looking forward to the Christ and what He would do for them.. We are saved by looking back to what He has already done for us. One savior, one faith.

[Jude3b]

There are venial sins and mortal sins
I understand that that venial means just contrary to the law, and mortal sin is something far more serious that could jeopardize a person's soul.

God's Word makes no distinction as to the gravity of certain sins. It simply states that the wages of sin is death. Jesus Christ paid the price for all sin once and for all (see Hebrews 10:12)

[Agent Yoshi]

I think he's saying that venial sins are things that we do that are not against God's law, but against Man's laws. If that's right, how can a priest have the power to forgive that type of offense?

[Jude3b]

The fatal error in Roman Catholicism is denial of the sufficiency of Christ as the all sufficient Saviour. It denies that salvation is by grace through faith alone. That is why they came up with "Venial and Mortal Sins." They want to have a works based salvation, because like every religion since the garden of Eden - they think they must earn their salvation. This includes their religious inventions of purgatory, the mass, works of penance, etc. All this makes their priestcraft and sacramentarianism necessary. Romanism is a complicated system of salvation by works.

Dear Roman Catholic friends, won't you consider the Gospel of Christ! He is the only way you will get to heaven. Rome cannot take you there.

[rocketman]

Dear Roman Catholic friends, won't you consider the Gospel of Christ! He is the only way you will get to heaven.

Have done, am doing, and will continue to do so long as I am in the Church He established...the Roman Catholic Church.

[mandolin]

Wait jude...
The bible never makes a distinction between two types of sins???

What about I John 5:16-17? :huh:

...sometimes you have to take more than one verse into account before forming theology...you do know this, right??

you asked The Roman Catholic religion indoctrinates Catholis with the notion that there are varying degrees of sin, venial and mortal. What does the Bible teach on this subject?
The answer:
While all sins are the same in the eyes of God...in that all can be cleansed away by the blood of Jesus...the bible does make mention of sins that are worse than others. (i.e. varying dgrees of sin)

Glad I could help :teeth:

[Jude3b]

The fatal error in Roman Catholicism is denial of the sufficiency of Christ as the all sufficient Saviour. It denies that salvation is by grace through faith alone. That is why they came up with "Venial and Mortal Sins." They want to have a works based salvation, because like every religion since the garden of Eden - they think they must earn their salvation. This includes their religious inventions of purgatory, the mass, works of penance, etc. All this makes their priestcraft and sacramentarianism necessary. Romanism is a complicated system of salvation by works.

Dear Roman Catholic friends, won't you consider the Gospel of Christ! He is the only way you will get to heaven. Rome cannot take you there.

The fatal sin that condems all is not venial or mortal. It is the rejection of Jesus Christ as The Lord and Savior. He is the only way, the only truth and the only life. Rome trys to tell people that salvation is in their religion. You can join every religion on earth and still die and go to hell. You must have Jesus, because only He is Lord and Savior.

[mandolin]

You must have Jesus, because only He is Lord and Savior.
I coulda sworn catholics teach the same...:doh:

Don't I feel like the horse's patoot.

[rocketman]

The fatal error in Roman Catholicism is denial of the sufficiency of Christ as the all sufficient Saviour. It denies that salvation is by grace through faith alone. That is why they came up with "Venial and Mortal Sins." They want to have a works based salvation, because like every religion since the garden of Eden - they think they must earn their salvation. This includes their religious inventions of purgatory, the mass, works of penance, etc. All this makes their priestcraft and sacramentarianism necessary. Romanism is a complicated system of salvation by works.

Dear Roman Catholic friends, won't you consider the Gospel of Christ! He is the only way you will get to heaven. Rome cannot take you there.

Hey Jude, (do I hear a song coming on?)

I am a Catholic and I'd like to reinform you b/c you've been misinformed I think.
You are right. Christ is sufficient for our salvation! Christ death and resurrection allow us to be saved! Thanks be to God.
The RCC is NOT works based salvation. Works are simply a part of faith. It is not works that save us. And our faith can only bring us into grace, we hope. Our works are simply outward expressions of our faith. If you have a true faith, then you most certainly will have works. Its really simple.

[Jude3b]

It is so very interesting to read the varying opinions of Roman Catholics, when it comes to Romanism, I can only quote what the Roman church taught me when I was a Roman Catholic and being trained (almost brainwashed) in Roman Catholic schools (Holy Spirit and Holy Cross).

To be saved, Roman Catholic doctrine teaches that one must continually perform good works: "Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity in not saved." (The Roman Catechism Page 222, #837) To be saved, one must also perform religious works like baptism (usually done at age 8 days when a child is incapable of understanding the Gospel of Christ - See the Catechism page 320, #1257), plus various sacraments (see page 292, #1129) and many additional works. Some modern day Romanists on this theology web will try to state that they do not have a works based salvation. However, that is not true and it denies the teachings of Roman Catholicism to make such a statement.

Rocketman, if you died today are you sure you would go to heaven? Why?

It is my prayer that every Roman Catholic will come to know the Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible. That is the all sufficient savior - who has already paid it all for all who will receive Him and his perfect sacrifice on our behalf. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:9-9)

[VFarris01]

Jude, I know this may come as a shock to you,but this doctrine of being "saved by being born again" is pretty new...and if you accept it in its entirety, then you are also saying that nobody, for two thousand years, was saved until this doctrine was either a) revealed or b) perfected

It is in a word, absurd.New? Not!

(3)Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

[mandolin]

"Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity in not saved."
I coulda sworn this is the entire point of the book of James. Faith without works is dead. Not saved by works. Saved by faith. Faith leads to works. Or in Pauls words, we must have the fruit of the holy spirit (love, joy, peace, patience...etc.)

[rocketman]

It is my prayer that every Roman Catholic will come to know the Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible. That is the all sufficient savior - who has already paid it all for all who will receive Him and his perfect sacrifice on our behalf. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:9-9)

I see you quoted Ephesians 2:8-9. Please don't forget to include the next verse, Ephesians 2:10...

"For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life."

[VFarris01]

Have done, am doing, and will continue to do so long as I am in the Church He established...the Roman Catholic Church.The RCC cannot be the church Christ founded. His church started in and had its headquarters in Jerusalem, not Rome.

(46)And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (48) And ye are witnesses of these things. (49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

[Jude3b]

Have done, am doing, and will continue to do so long as I am in the Church He established...the Roman Catholic Church.

Thats amazing, you know so little about the Bible, that you actually think the Roman Catholic church was founded by Christ. Thats faf out!

If you will but read your Bible, you will find no mention of any Roman Catholic church. Christ founded His church, the church of God the body of Christ.

[Sir Gimli]

The Bible mentions the Catholic Church? What are you talking about?

By the way, If you are going on the " Not mentioned in the Bible" atttitude. Did you know that the words Trinity, and orginal sin is not mention specifically?

The Roman Catholic Church can be found out by its four marks: one, holy, Catholic( which means universal), and Apostolic.

[Jude3b]

The Bible mentions the Catholic Church? What are you talking about?

By the way, If you are going on the " Not mentioned in the Bible" atttitude. Did you know that the words Trinity, and orginal sin is not mentiospecifically?

The Roman Catholic Church can be found out by its four marks: one, holy, Catholic( which means universal), and Apostolic.

It sure can!

Is Romanism one? Yes, its one confused religious mess of false doctrines. It truly is a Chritianized form of heathenism. "And all the world waondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast" (Rev. 13, 3&4) "And I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet-colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw a woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration" (Rev. 17:3-6)

Is Romanism holy? Jesus said, "By their fuits you will know them" - 5,000 sexual abuse cases by their priesthood upon children in the USA alone. Holy, not hardly!

Is Roman Catholicism Catholic (universal)? Yes, the apostasy of the early church of God beame universal and evolved into Romanism. The great apostasy, falling away affected the church universal. The early church of God had the truth, and a remnant always has had the truth and are still the church of God, the body of Christ - just like those New Testament saints of the first century. But man rule came in and corrupted the purity that was the early true church. Peter refers to this subject in these words: "But there were false prophets also among the people even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways: by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of" (2 Peter 2:1,2).

Is Romanism apostolic? Christians in the early church of God, just like true Christians today, do not follow paganism, like Romanism does. The high priest of the pagan religion in the Roman empire was called Pontifex Maximus, and he claimed spiritual and temporal authority over men. The Pope of Rome borrowed the title and made the same claims, even being clad in the same attire. The heathen wore scapulars, medals, and images for personal protection. Romanists wear the things and for the same purpose. Pagans, by an official process called deification, raised men, after their death, to a dignified position and accorded them special honors and worship. Papists, by a similar process called canonization, exalt men after their death to the dignity of saints and then offer up prayers to them. Papists' adoration of idols and images was also borrowed direct from the heathen; for all such practices were absolutely forbidden by the Mosaic law and had no place in the church of God of the first century. Romanisms religious orders of monks and nuns were also in imitation of the vestal virgins of antiquity. The "great things" and "blasphemies" (Rev. 13:5) spoken by this beast are doubtless the prerogatives and rights belonging to God alone which are claimed by this apostate church, that calls itself the Holy Roman Catholic Church!!

[BibleMan]

The Roman Catholic religion indoctrinates Catholis with the notion that there are varying degrees of sin, venial and mortal. What does the Bible teach on this subject?



The Bible teaches that "sin is a willful violation of a known law of God." There is no black or white sins. There is no "dirty dozen" so to speak. There is no especially "nasty sins" verses some "nice sins."

[Joe Gofish]

The Roman Catholic religion indoctrinates Catholis with the notion that there are varying degrees of sin, venial and mortal. What does the Bible teach on this subject?

JUDE, What bible do you read ? And why do you not believe the words of Our Lord,"Our Lord said to Pilate (John 19:11): 'He that hath delivered me to thee, hath the greater sin,' and yet it is evident that Pilate was guilty of some sin. Therefore one sin is greater than another.
Therefore it matters much to the gravity of a sin whether one departs more or less from the rectitude of reason: and accordingly we must say that sins are not all equal.

[Joe Gofish]

The Bible simply says: "The wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23) - Paul was not speaking of any particular kind of sin, but of all sin. Ezekiel says: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (18:4). When James said, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all (2:10), he meant, not that the person who commits one sin is guilty of all other kinds of sin, but that even one sin unrepented of shuts a person out of heaven and subjects him to punishment, just as surely as one puncture of the eyeball subjects a person to blindness. In the light of these verses, the distinction between mortal and venial sins is shown to be arbitrary and absurd.
Sincerely, Jude 3b

What was Jesus talking about in John 19:11 ? One sin must be greater then the other

[dizzle]

There are indeed categories of sins.

[dizzle]

Bibleman - are you Jude3b?

[Joe Gofish]

The Roman Catholic religion indoctrinates Catholis with the notion that there are varying degrees of sin, venial and mortal. What does the Bible teach on this subject?

Lets listen to Our Lord and not what this Lunatic has to say, "Our Lord said to Pilate (John 19:11): 'He that hath delivered me to thee, hath the greater sin,' and yet it is evident that Pilate was guilty of some sin. Therefore one sin is greater than another.
Therefore it matters much to the gravity of a sin whether one departs more or less from the rectitude of reason: and accordingly we must say that sins are not all equal.
Jude Can you now see why we must not have private interpretation on the Bible .

[Joe Gofish]

It sure can!

Is Romanism one? Yes, its one confused religious mess of false doctrines. It truly is a Chritianized form of heathenism. "And all the world waondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast" (Rev. 13, 3&4) "And I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet-colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: and upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw a woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration" (Rev. 17:3-6)

Is Romanism holy? Jesus said, "By their fuits you will know them" - 5,000 sexual abuse cases by their priesthood upon children in the USA alone. Holy, not hardly!

Is Roman Catholicism Catholic (universal)? Yes, the apostasy of the early church of God beame universal and evolved into Romanism. The great apostasy, falling away affected the church universal. The early church of God had the truth, and a remnant always has had the truth and are still the church of God, the body of Christ - just like those New Testament saints of the first century. But man rule came in and corrupted the purity that was the early true church. Peter refers to this subject in these words: "But there were false prophets also among the people even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways: by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of" (2 Peter 2:1,2).

Is Romanism apostolic? Christians in the early church of God, just like true Christians today, do not follow paganism, like Romanism does. The high priest of the pagan religion in the Roman empire was called Pontifex Maximus, and he claimed spiritual and temporal authority over men. The Pope of Rome borrowed the title and made the same claims, even being clad in the same attire. The heathen wore scapulars, medals, and images for personal protection. Romanists wear the things and for the same purpose. Pagans, by an official process called deification, raised men, after their death, to a dignified position and accorded them special honors and worship. Papists, by a similar process called canonization, exalt men after their death to the dignity of saints and then offer up prayers to them. Papists' adoration of idols and images was also borrowed direct from the heathen; for all such practices were absolutely forbidden by the Mosaic law and had no place in the church of God of the first century. Romanisms religious orders of monks and nuns were also in imitation of the vestal virgins of antiquity. The "great things" and "blasphemies" (Rev. 13:5) spoken by this beast are doubtless the prerogatives and rights belonging to God alone which are claimed by this apostate church, that calls itself the Holy Roman Catholic Church!!

The writting of a Lunatic off his meds .