A.C. is not against Christian Churches

[David]

The following post is intended for futurists that know that prophecy concerns the future and that we have to know it to understand the present and future Prophecy. The other basics you would have to know is that the Lord is not nationalistic, and that the Lord's people are few and not in the millions and billions composing whole countries. If you know these basics, then the following may make sense to you in the 'Spirit' and in the present tense as this insane war breaks out...

God bless you in your understanding of the future....

***************************

The A.C.is Not against the Christian Church System


Church prophecy usually says that the A.C. is against their churches and will fight their so-called Christian countries.This false doctrine then allows them to preach, that their congregations should fight all non-Christian countries, especially the Muslims. Why, because they consider the Anti-Christ to be a madman from some Muslim country, that will amass Muslims around the world and try to dethrone the Christian/Jewish domination on world power. For in doing this, they can declare that their oboxious mix of Christianity and nationalistic patriotism is justified according to their doctrine. And hence they can condone and encourage war upon any country that is not aligned to their nationalistic god. But this is absolutely contraryto what the Bible teaches, and what the Lord himself taught.

For according to Jesus, the Anti-Christ will say he is Christ, and will try to win the church Christians to himself. He will say he is the 'Messiah', and try to win the Jews to himself. And he will try to say he is the 'Madhi', and try to win the Muslims to himself. In other words, he will attempt to teach and show them and demonstarte to them through his exploits and conquests that he is a fulfillment of all thier prophecies and expectations .... and that they therefore should bow to him and serve him because he will say he is the Christ and he is GOD.

But when does this one embodiment of the Anti-Christ come into power ? Well according to Daniel 7, and other scriptures the one and only Anti-Christ that is destined to lead the 8th World Empire, will arise after the Covenant of Daniel is signed, for he will be against it. ( SEE 7 Kingdoms of Man ). And then shall start the Great Tribulation of 1260 days. (See Daniel Timeline ). So let's go over more verses that show this ...with my comments in ....(...)

Mathew 24:21, 22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. (In other words, the Lord is telling us, that at the start of tribulation ..... many will be saying they are the 2nd coming or even the first coming of Christ. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM, and do not believe the world military and political leader, called the Beast that will be saying he is Christ. Because Jesus does not return until AFTER the Tribuation of 42 months SEE Rapture After the Tribulation )

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Why because at this time, the False Prophet and the A.C. Beast are doing miracles to deceive the whole religious world. Rev 13:13,14 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM !!! )

Mat 24:25,26 Behold, I have told you before. (And only us the elect 144,000 will understand this, because we know scriptures and know he is lying ) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.(Exactly as Jesus is not in the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem, ruling and reigning upon the Throne. that is the ANTI-CHRIST and not the Lord of Lords) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Yes because the Lord comes back in the clouds and in power not as a mere man next time !!)

And so as Paul said .... 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (this meaning that the AC must come before the Lord returns and this AC goes into the 3rd temple and declares that he himself is Jesus, the messiah and the Madhi, all wrapped up in one and that all nations, and all people and all nationalities must worship him and take his Mark.)

Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. (This portion of Daniel istalking about the how the AC will speak against the God of Gods because he will be saying He is God. He won't be anti-religious but pro-religious, because he will be saying he is the answer to all religions)

Revelation 13:5-8 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (He blasphemes because he is saying he is God which is the ultimate blasphemy to the Lord). And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, (Yes because all nations will bow to him whether Christian or Jewish or Muslim as the A.C. will be their God, here on earth, and yet they have chosen poorly and taken his Mark which will bring them eternal damnation. And he and they will fight us, as we flee into the wilderness where we have a place prepared for us by the Lord.)

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Yes these great words the AC beast shall speak are that he is the Christ, and that Christians should follow him and obey him. And even tell them that we are the rebels and terrorists that they must snuff out in order to rid the world of the disobedient SEE We shall be called devils. And we shall be given into his hand for 3 and a half years during the tribulation, as time and times and dividing of times means 3 and a half years SEE We shall fight and die. For even though we battle against him and his forces, he eventually wears us out and almost totally annihilates us. And yet when he thinks he and the world have gotten the voctory by killing our two prophets (Revelation 11), then the Lord returns in the clouds three and a half days later. For then and only then shall our long awaited RESSURRECTION take place as the Lord takes us to be with Him. We party at the 'Wedding Feast of the Lamb', and then return and get the victory behind our leader, JESUS at the Battle of Armageddon

So the A.C. won't be a madman, or a cult leader, or a Muslim dictator like Saddam Hussein, but a well spoken, handsome.leader that will be idolized by ALL religions and all nationalities and all people, except for the Elect. For the Elect of the Lord will know better and will serve the true Lord until the End

According to Scriputres

David

The A.C.is Not against the Christian Church System


Church prophecy usually says that the A.C. is against their churches and will fight their so-called Christian countries.This false doctrine then allows them to preach, that their congregations should fight all non-Christian countries, especially the Muslims. Why, because they consider the Anti-Christ to be a madman from some Muslim country, that will amass Muslims around the world and try to dethrone the Christian/Jewish domination on world power. For in doing this, they can declare that their oboxious mix of Christianity and nationalistic patriotism is justified according to their doctrine. And hence they can condone and encourage war upon any country that is not aligned to their nationalistic god. But this is absolutely contraryto what the Bible teaches, and what the Lord himself taught.

For according to Jesus, the Anti-Christ will say he is Christ, and will try to win the church Christians to himself. He will say he is the 'Messiah', and try to win the Jews to himself. And he will try to say he is the 'Madhi', and try to win the Muslims to himself. In other words, he will attempt to teach and show them and demonstarte to them through his exploits and conquests that he is a fulfillment of all thier prophecies and expectations .... and that they therefore should bow to him and serve him because he will say he is the Christ and he is GOD.

But when does this one embodiment of the Anti-Christ come into power ? Well according to Daniel 7, and other scriptures the one and only Anti-Christ that is destined to lead the 8th World Empire, will arise after the Covenant of Daniel is signed, for he will be against it. ( SEE 7 Kingdoms of Man ). And then shall start the Great Tribulation of 1260 days. (See Daniel Timeline ). So let's go over more verses that show this ...with my comments in ....(...)

Mathew 24:21, 22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. (In other words, the Lord is telling us, that at the start of tribulation ..... many will be saying they are the 2nd coming or even the first coming of Christ. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM, and do not believe the world military and political leader, called the Beast that will be saying he is Christ. Because Jesus does not return until AFTER the Tribuation of 42 months SEE Rapture After the Tribulation )

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Why because at this time, the False Prophet and the A.C. Beast are doing miracles to deceive the whole religious world. Rev 13:13,14 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM !!! )


(Continued at .... http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/ACisnotagainstChruchSystem.html )

[bar Jonah]

03-10-2003 @ 08:36 PM
David:
For according to Jesus, the Anti-Christ will say he is Christ, and will try to win the church Christians to himself. He will say he is the 'Messiah', and try to win the Jews to himself. And he will try to say he is the 'Madhi', and try to win the Muslims to himself. In other words, he will attempt to teach and show them and demonstarte to them through his exploits and conquests that he is a fulfillment of all thier prophecies and expectations .... and that they therefore should bow to him and serve him because he will say he is the Christ and he is GOD.
Really? Jesus said that about the Antichrist claiming to be the Mahdi... even though Islam didn't appear for another seven centuries? Wow!

Is that in the same general part of the Bible that talks about oil companies and the United States?

*visits the Online Bible Gateway, does some word searches*

Ah yes, here it is... in 2 Opinions 17:1-12.

[David]

Right Idea, you have the wrong Idea, for notice how you have twisted things around and made the AC a Muslim devil, whereas over and over again and again it says in scriptures that all the world and all nationalities will worship and serve the AC and all nations shall take His MARK.

The Muslims are hardly powerful and once the NWO, the real devils of this world take over their oil and break their monopoly they will be subdued like all others and be slaves to the borrower.

I mean the NWO has America totally now that Bush has indebted them even further with his trillion dollar war that he borrowed from them. The borrower is slave to the lender. Don;t you know this.

Muslims are NOT going to create a new world order, and are not going to rise up a become the 7th kingdom on Earth.

That is destined for the ten nations that sign the Covenant of Daniel, for it brings peace from this insane war of America. So the NWO order wins, and consolidates the world, and then puts their man in charge.

But the Muslims, ridiculous, they don;t even have a nuclear bomb, sxcept for weak pro-American Pakistan, as America put in their own dictator there.

Israel has nuclear weapons, and the other devoid countries have nuclear weapons. This is how wars are won, a bunch of cavemen are not going to take over the world. The Muslims aren't going to nagate US as prophecy dictates, and the Muslims are not going to riot and negate three nuclear countries with burning effigies.

No, nuclear weapons will decide the next two world kingdoms, that's science, military power, current events and prophecy.

The AC is from Russia and calls himself the Christ, Messiah, and Madhi all in one and creates a ONE RELIGION WORLD. You accept Him or you die Straight forward and simple.

SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Anti-ChristsProphecies.html

And I am sure Right Idea, you will NOT accept His MARK, because you love the Lord and will not be party to an imposter

IMO

David

[bar Jonah]

03-11-2003 @ 07:51 AM
David:

Right Idea, you have the wrong Idea, for notice how you have twisted things around and made the AC a Muslim devil, whereas over and over again and again it says in scriptures that all the world and all nationalities will worship and serve the AC and all nations shall take His MARK.

IMO

David
David, you have the wrong idea, for notice how you have twisted things around and claimed that I believe the AC is a Muslim devil, whereas I have NEVER said any such thing. What on earth are you talking about? I didn't say that anywhere! LOL

:huh:

[Lizard]

03-11-2003 @ 10:40 AM
RightIdea:


David, you have the wrong idea, for notice how you have twisted things around and claimed that I believe the AC is a Muslim devil, whereas I have NEVER said any such thing. What on earth are you talking about? I didn't say that anywhere! LOL

:huh:

Deja Vu?

:argh: :argh:

[David]

Right idea, I must have gotten the wrong idea from your short post, and if you have the right idea that the AC is not Muslim, and that he is not against the System church, then I think you have the right idea.

Nevertheless, my lengthier explanation of what I thought was the wrong idea is still beneficial in straightening out any of those that have the wrong idea, and think that the AC will lead the Muslim world from nowhere to world supremacy.

That is ludicrous to say the least. They just don't have the power.

The Muslims certainly aren't angelic but no worse than the Christians and the Jews who will be accepting their world ruler and god, the Anti-Christ.

So let's reach the few that are willing to drop politics and religion and nationalism, and those that don;t worship materialism and bring them to the true Lord, which is Jesus

David

PS) Faramir .. to get a response you have to say something, so rather than disparaging remarks, try to make a positive statement concerning your beliefs and opinions

Thanks

[bar Jonah]

You and I are significantly different in our view of eschatology, brother David. But on this I agree -- it is the position of GODISNOWHERE that the greatest threat to the Body of Christ today is internal, not external. Post-modernism, liberal theology, relativism, worldliness are infiltrating the Body to an unprecedented degree today. And if the Antichrist is going to appear soon (a big IF), he will surely be a part of that. He surely won't be some Muslim leader.

[Rubia Warren]

I don't take it that David is trying to say that the AC will be a muslim or anything, but rather that he will appeal in some way to all the different groups (religions)... a good way to do that is for things about him and claims that he makes (along with his charisma) to seemingly fulfill not only bible prophecy, but prophecies in other religions as well. In this way, he can gain acceptance across the board, and everyone will love him and embrace him. Well.... not everyone. But for the most part, decieved people of the world.

[Hitch]

:yipee: What this forum needs is a banana with tall rubber boots,,,, nahhh, hipwaders.

[Hitch]

That is destined for the ten nations that sign the Covenant of Daniel, for it brings peace from this insane war of America. So the NWO order wins, and consolidates the world, and then puts their man in charge. Are you speaking of the current proposed action against Iraq?


It would seem so in the light of your earlier ;

I mean the NWO has America totally now that Bush has indebted them even further with his trillion dollar war that he borrowed from them. The borrower is slave to the lender. Don;t you know this.

Trillion eh ? Ive told you a million times not to exagerate.


So it looks to me as though you're saying the action we are involved in presently will be the catalist by which is realized the siging of the 'Covenant of Daniel' as you put.

Correct so far?

H

[Reba]

These are the ONLY references in scripture to antichrist.


1 John 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 7
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Notice the reference numbers are there so you can read the context.

[Hitch]

I forgot something;


GOD BLESS AMERICA

[Hitch]

03-11-2003 @ 07:35 PM
La Rubia:

I don't take it that David is trying to say that the AC will be a muslim or anything, but rather that he will appeal in some way to all the different groups (religions)... a good way to do that is for things about him and claims that he makes (along with his charisma) to seemingly fulfill not only bible prophecy, but prophecies in other religions as well. In this way, he can gain acceptance across the board, and everyone will love him and embrace him. Well.... not everyone. But for the most part, decieved people of the world.
Dave says plainly it will be a Russian.


'The AC is from Russia and calls himself the Christ, Messiah, and Madhi all in one and creates a ONE RELIGION WORLD. You accept Him or you die Straight forward and simple.'


And I wondering.... arent the 'decieved people of this world' following antichrist today?


take care

Hitch

[Rubia Warren]

David, what makes you believe it will be a Russian?

[David]

Couldn;t agree with you more Right idea.... when you say ....03-11-2003 @ 06:10 PM
RightIdea:

You and I are significantly different in our view of eschatology, brother David. But on this I agree -- it is the position of GODISNOWHERE that the greatest threat to the Body of Christ today is internal, not external. Post-modernism, liberal theology, relativism, worldliness are infiltrating the Body to an unprecedented degree today. And if the Antichrist is going to appear soon (a big IF), he will surely be a part of that. He surely won't be some Muslim leader.

As his main religious focus is materialism, but then wows the unbelievers with moracles in thier sight, and absolute miltary might for those that are reticient, and so for weak believers, they are easily overpowered with his charm, charisma, speech, looks and power ...and Yes he surely won;t be a Muslim although fulfilling their ideals as the Madhi as well.

All the Right idea, Right idea
David

PSD) And who cares about being exactly right in the here and now as long as we get the major points exact and that is to put the lord first and know the basics of the future. We will be told the essentials later if are hearts are RIGHT.

[David]

Rubia,

03-12-2003 @ 01:43 AM
La Rubia:

David, what makes you believe it will be a Russian?

To answer your question simply, the AC fills all the criterion of Daniel 11

SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Daniel11Part1.html

He is the King of the North, and change and destruction always seem to come from the North.

Besides only Russia is capable of destroying America, the Whore. America has violated SALT by trying to develop a shield , which means Russia has to try as well. And so Russia gets it first and uses it in a unilateral war against the Whore, as obviously it is not a nuclear war but a unilateral nuclear destruction in Revelation.

SEE Unilateral War http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/Onesidedwar.html

So Russia is evil and yet they know that their Kingdom shall arise, as the dark side has its prophecies as well, and knows his birth place and from whence he shall gather strength with the little people...

SEE http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/RussiaPropheciesabouttheAnti-Christ.html

So don't look to Putin, but his successor, that arises after the Covenant is signed.

In My Opinion from scriptures and esoterics and current events

David

[Hitch]

So Dave what makes you think your datesetting will work out any better than all the other failures before?

Is your garden variety Canuck self-righteousness the key?

What are you going to do when events of the next few months show you a fraud? ( ya know they used to say Russia was about to invade Israel,, then it was changed to the Soviet Union, now its Russia again,,,)

I mean ,will you admit your mistake or just change your timetables and names around to fit the current events of Fall 03? As have the majority of your predesesors? Perhaps you are unaware of the many 'sure signs' that revolved around Stalin's soon to come invasion of Israel...



BTW you didnt answer about where you came up with the trillion dollar figure, how 'bout it?

Take care

Hitch

[David]

I find your tone offensive, Hitch, for calling me a self-righteous Canuck is hardly in the spirit of Christian debate on a serious issue.

So stay objective and not subjective, don;t post personal; condemnations but your opinions and supposed truths to counter my opinions and supposed truths.

Why are my dates correct, well when it says a day it means a day, when it says a year it means a year, and when it is confirmed from every which angle then you should be getting the message..SEE the EXACT days of Daniel posting.

For the closer we get to the end, someone has to get it right and eventually all of the Lord's elect will get what's necessary right. For it isn;t a secret, otherwise why was it written...and if the trumpet give an unclear message who will take notice. Have you not read these things ?

The trillion dollar figure comes from the increased spending for the military, don;t you read the papers. And while giving the rich tax breaks, this further indebts the American people and government to the banks that are owned and operated by the richest of the rich who are the NWO. Don;t you know these things.

Wars aren't free, they are for a reason and it certainly isn't the liberation of the Iraqui people.

And so you say America didn;t know if they were going to war. Ridiculous, when you have 300,000 men and ships and planes there it is costing surely over a billion dollars a day to keep them there for the oil riches.... and so America has to go to war and can not wait for world opinion because of economics. They say they hadn;t decided but that was a con, they decided long ago when deploying troops. For the ships loaded with missiles are now positioning themeslves in the Red Sea for firing.

But don;t worry the war will be short, and yet go on and on and on..... IMO

But you are right Hitch I don;t know when the Covenant will be signed, my total guess is this Fall. But once it is signed, then I can give you the exact timeline as dictated by the prophets daniel and John and others.

If you don't know these things ... study and please, please no more self-righteous canucks comments.

Besides I am NOT nationalistic and think canadian politics and their slippery agenda is just as perfidious. I am a Christian first and foremost and not nationalistic or patriotic.

[bar Jonah]

03-13-2003 @ 08:08 AM
David:

I find your tone offensive, Hitch, for calling me a self-righteous Canuck is hardly in the spirit of Christian debate on a serious issue.

So stay objective and not subjective, don;t post personal; condemnations but your opinions and supposed truths to counter my opinions and supposed truths.
You first.

David, are you allergic to scripture? We're starting to wonder. You STILL haven't even posted so much as one single verse out of the Bible. Don't you have any idea how badly that hurts your case? To be honest, it basically makes your arguments irrelevant by default. If you are willfully abandoning scripture as a defense of your view, and you admit this is all your opinion, then why should we spend another three seconds listening to you?

[Lizard]

David:

Since you addressed this thread to futurist only, I will not discuss my opinions of "The Anti Christ", that you claim is in the world today. However, I do plan to post a new thread asking for biblical evidence that there is one end-time "The Anti Christ".

I will put a link to the thread once I get it posted.

I would really like to see you support your position with scripture

I really doubt that this is going to happen.


Here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=33928#post33928) is the link.

[Hitch]

If you don't know these things ... study and please, please no more self-righteous canucks comments.]

How dare you.

Your whinnings and anti - Bush ,anti-American rantings are the mainstay of nearly every post you make and fill in the areas between wild speculations and unfounded echos of the left. Reminds me of a highschool Psyche class. You are the last one to complain about 'tone'.


But you are right Hitch I don;t know when the Covenant will be signed, my total guess is this Fall. But once it is signed, then I can give you the exact timeline as dictated by the prophets daniel and John and others.



Well at least its just a matter of months before you're proven wrong . My guess is you will come up with a slightly altered plan ,change some names an ddates and continue crying wolf.

Hitch

[Hitch]

Dave, Faramir



Since you addressed this thread to futurist only, I will not discuss my opinions of "The Anti Christ", that you claim is in the world today. However, I do plan to post a new thread asking for biblical evidence that there is one end-time "The Anti Christ".


I noticed that address in the header but I didnt take it to have anything to do with responses and Dave has not made such and indication up to now.

But if that is the case I am anxious to honor his wishes, even to the point of removing my responses . Its a good rule and I use it and will abide by it.


Hitch

[Lizard]

03-13-2003 @ 10:08 AM
David:

I find your tone offensive, Hitch, for calling me a self-righteous Canuck is hardly in the spirit of Christian debate on a serious issue.



David, if you believe that a tweb rule has been violated, you can report it to a moderator. However, remember that that sword cuts two ways.

03-13-2003 @ 11:59 AM
Hitch:

Dave, Faramir

Since you addressed this thread to futurist only, I will not discuss my opinions of "The Anti Christ", that you claim is in the world today. However, I do plan to post a new thread asking for biblical evidence that there is one end-time "The Anti Christ".


I noticed that address in the header but I didnt take it to have anything to do with responses and Dave has not made such and indication up to now.

But if that is the case I am anxious to honor his wishes, even to the point of removing my responses . Its a good rule and I use it and will abide by it.


Hitch



Hitch [/QUOTE]

That's Davids call.

As you know we don't usually enforce that rule unless the thread starter request it (which I belive is stated in the rule), and even then I would not remove a post unless the problem continues.

I started the new thread as a courtesy to David as his initial post stated:

The following post is intended for futurists that know that prophecy concerns the future and that we have to know it to understand the present and future Prophecy.

I did this because this thread is still (more or less) on topic. Instead of shifting the focus, I decided to start a new thread.

Hope this helps.

[David]

Now back to the future which is Prophecy for as we know the End is not anti-climatic but gets worse and worse until the Lord comes.

And yet the AC pretends to be the Saviour of the world, for all religions. he is not against the churchs, mosgues, or synagogues, ashrams or any religion, but pretends to be the Christ

According to scriptures

[Hitch]

**edited by moderator**

I trust you'll refrain from using such veiled profanity from here on out? Not only is it unacceptable behaviour in our community... it makes its user look childish and appear to have a weak argument. I'm sure you don't want that, do ya?

(David vs. Hitch? Why do I have sudden thoughts of old "Godzilla vs. Mothra" movies? God bless both of ya... and God help the rest of us.) :lol:

[David]

Hitch, we all know what **something-or-other** stands for, so please refraim from such gutter talk as Theology Web is suppose to be for serious students of spirituality rather than for trash talk. If you have nothing of interest or importance or a help in the conversation, just say nothing rather than making such rude and crude comments.

After 872 posts I would have thought you would have known the standards. But apparrently not !!

Do edit out **thingy**, which will leave your posting with what it is worth. Thanks ...

**edited it, since it would kind of defeat the purpose of editing his post if I left yours.**

[dizzle]

I would add David, to let a Moderator handle such things. To come in afterwards and post a rebuke is inviting a response and esclation. Please let such things remain in a Moderator's hands. You have done your share of insulting here.

[David]

Today @ 01:57 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=129415#post129415)
Dee Dee Warren:

I would add David, to let a Moderator handle such things. To come in afterwards and post a rebuke is inviting a response and esclation. Please let such things remain in a Moderator's hands. You have done your share of insulting here.

But DeeDee if I had insulted anyone, you would have done what you did to Hitch's comments would you not have.... ?

And it would be obvious to all.

So I don't think it appropriate to accuse me of this, without cause and without my supposed quote.

Thanks

[Hitch]

The only foulness here is your constant expressed notion of the church as a failure in history.

And I will oppose such nonsense when ever feel like it.

[David]

Again I repeat this topic is about how the AC will incorporate all religions and not be against the church system but entice them into following him, for he will pretend to be the second coming of Christ. To the Jews he will pretend to be their Messiah, to the Muslims, their long awaited Madhi, to the New Age to the present Avitar. He will bring them all in and those who oppose him will not be called Christians, they will be called 'devils and rebels' and worse... as Jesus said...For if they have called the Master of the House Baalzebub, how much more they of his household. We shall be called devils.

http://forums.about.com/Mysteries1/messages

So if responding do follow this thread topic rather than your own peronsal views on yourself. Thanks

All objective views are welcome

Thanks

David

[dizzle]

Today @ 11:18 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=129458#post129458)
David:



But DeeDee if I had insulted anyone, you would have done what you did to Hitch's comments would you not have.... ?

And it would be obvious to all.

You cannot ask for Moderator intervention and then rub salt in the wound. Either ask for a Moderator to handle it, or handle it yourself.

So I don't think it appropriate to accuse me of this, without cause and without my supposed quote.

Thanks

Are you denying that you have insulted preterists here? I really don't care but you have engaged in multiple misrepresentations of the preterist view. All I am saying is that you cannot complain when it is your view under the microscope. This is a debate board, and we have honored your request for futurist only participation on several threads, but you need to deal with opposing views or perhaps post in a nondebate area. You cannot win by fiat or by insisting any opposing views be censored.

So if responding do follow this thread topic rather than your own peronsal views on yourself. Thanks

All objective views are welcome


So you are going to subjectively decide what is objective? :rofl: You really need to learn the definitions of those words. I find your views to be higly subjective and Biblicaly incorrect.

[David]

My comments to yours in ....(..)


[QUOTE]Yesterday @ 04:53 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=129482#post129482)
Dee Dee Warren:



You cannot ask for Moderator intervention and then rub salt in the wound. Either ask for a Moderator to handle it, or handle it yourself. (Actually I reported it and responded to Hitch within a few minutes, as I never knew you would do anything)

Are you denying that you have insulted preterists here? (I objectively state that preterism is unscripturial and ask that preterists not respond to my threads because their doctrine makes no sense whatsoever. And that apparently is acceptable according to your rules. Preterists can start their own threads if they choose and disallow prophecy students from responding. Can they not ? )

I really don't care but you have engaged in multiple misrepresentations of the preterist view. (That matters not, for you are here representing a moderater and not a poster, so you should separate the two if you are to be a moderater. For surely preterist have misrepresented the porphetic view point with their preterism. So can I not hold that view ?))

All I am saying is that you cannot complain when it is your view under the microscope. (My thread is NOT about Preterism and past tense philosphy, but the present tense and future tense. Most people can understand the topic title and its implications.)

This is a debate board, and we have honored your request for futurist only participation on several threads, but you need to deal with opposing views or perhaps post in a nondebate area. (Therefore they should debate and not use subjective language but stick to the issue)

You cannot win by fiat or by insisting any opposing views be censored. (No you censorted abbreviations that were rude and crude and hardly worthy of your board. Right ?)

So you are going to subjectively decide what is objective? :rofl: (Rolling on floor laughing is mockery is it not ?) You really need to learn the definitions of those words. (I have and do know the difference, you can oppose a doctrine without opposing and calling a poster names) I find your views to be higly subjective and Biblicaly incorrect. (That's fine then stick to being a poster, but your personal views shouldn't change your moderation principles, so that you make them subjective)

Now back to the topic as mentioned. if preterists know current events and prophetic future events they can respond without name calling.

And I hope they do. Stick to the topic...

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

03-12-2003 @ 12:27 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=32671#post32671)
Reba:

These are the ONLY references in scripture to antichrist.

1 John 2:18
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 7
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Notice the reference numbers are there so you can read the context.

Thanks Reba, that's what this thread needed. I hope everyone notices that ALL biblical references to the Antichrist show that it is something that has been in the world for a long time now, since the first century!

[mercia]

03-11-2003 @ 03:36 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=31977#post31977)
David:

The following post is intended for futurists that know that prophecy concerns the future and that we have to know it to understand the present and future Prophecy. The other basics you would have to know is that the Lord is not nationalistic, and that the Lord's people are few and not in the millions and billions composing whole countries. If you know these basics, then the following may make sense to you in the 'Spirit' and in the present tense as this insane war breaks out...

God bless you in your understanding of the future....

***************************

The A.C.is Not against the Christian Church System


Church prophecy usually says that the A.C. is against their churches and will fight their so-called Christian countries.This false doctrine then allows them to preach, that their congregations should fight all non-Christian countries, especially the Muslims. Why, because they consider the Anti-Christ to be a madman from some Muslim country, that will amass Muslims around the world and try to dethrone the Christian/Jewish domination on world power. For in doing this, they can declare that their oboxious mix of Christianity and nationalistic patriotism is justified according to their doctrine. And hence they can condone and encourage war upon any country that is not aligned to their nationalistic god. But this is absolutely contraryto what the Bible teaches, and what the Lord himself taught.

For according to Jesus, the Anti-Christ will say he is Christ, and will try to win the church Christians to himself. He will say he is the 'Messiah', and try to win the Jews to himself. And he will try to say he is the 'Madhi', and try to win the Muslims to himself. In other words, he will attempt to teach and show them and demonstarte to them through his exploits and conquests that he is a fulfillment of all thier prophecies and expectations .... and that they therefore should bow to him and serve him because he will say he is the Christ and he is GOD.

But when does this one embodiment of the Anti-Christ come into power ? Well according to Daniel 7, and other scriptures the one and only Anti-Christ that is destined to lead the 8th World Empire, will arise after the Covenant of Daniel is signed, for he will be against it. ( SEE 7 Kingdoms of Man ). And then shall start the Great Tribulation of 1260 days. (See Daniel Timeline ). So let's go over more verses that show this ...with my comments in ....(...)

Mathew 24:21, 22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. (In other words, the Lord is telling us, that at the start of tribulation ..... many will be saying they are the 2nd coming or even the first coming of Christ. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM, and do not believe the world military and political leader, called the Beast that will be saying he is Christ. Because Jesus does not return until AFTER the Tribuation of 42 months SEE Rapture After the Tribulation )

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Why because at this time, the False Prophet and the A.C. Beast are doing miracles to deceive the whole religious world. Rev 13:13,14 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM !!! )

Mat 24:25,26 Behold, I have told you before. (And only us the elect 144,000 will understand this, because we know scriptures and know he is lying ) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.(Exactly as Jesus is not in the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem, ruling and reigning upon the Throne. that is the ANTI-CHRIST and not the Lord of Lords) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Yes because the Lord comes back in the clouds and in power not as a mere man next time !!)

And so as Paul said .... 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (this meaning that the AC must come before the Lord returns and this AC goes into the 3rd temple and declares that he himself is Jesus, the messiah and the Madhi, all wrapped up in one and that all nations, and all people and all nationalities must worship him and take his Mark.)

Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. (This portion of Daniel istalking about the how the AC will speak against the God of Gods because he will be saying He is God. He won't be anti-religious but pro-religious, because he will be saying he is the answer to all religions)

Revelation 13:5-8 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (He blasphemes because he is saying he is God which is the ultimate blasphemy to the Lord). And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, (Yes because all nations will bow to him whether Christian or Jewish or Muslim as the A.C. will be their God, here on earth, and yet they have chosen poorly and taken his Mark which will bring them eternal damnation. And he and they will fight us, as we flee into the wilderness where we have a place prepared for us by the Lord.)

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Yes these great words the AC beast shall speak are that he is the Christ, and that Christians should follow him and obey him. And even tell them that we are the rebels and terrorists that they must snuff out in order to rid the world of the disobedient SEE We shall be called devils. And we shall be given into his hand for 3 and a half years during the tribulation, as time and times and dividing of times means 3 and a half years SEE We shall fight and die. For even though we battle against him and his forces, he eventually wears us out and almost totally annihilates us. And yet when he thinks he and the world have gotten the voctory by killing our two prophets (Revelation 11), then the Lord returns in the clouds three and a half days later. For then and only then shall our long awaited RESSURRECTION take place as the Lord takes us to be with Him. We party at the 'Wedding Feast of the Lamb', and then return and get the victory behind our leader, JESUS at the Battle of Armageddon

So the A.C. won't be a madman, or a cult leader, or a Muslim dictator like Saddam Hussein, but a well spoken, handsome.leader that will be idolized by ALL religions and all nationalities and all people, except for the Elect. For the Elect of the Lord will know better and will serve the true Lord until the End

According to Scriputres

David

The A.C.is Not against the Christian Church System


Church prophecy usually says that the A.C. is against their churches and will fight their so-called Christian countries.This false doctrine then allows them to preach, that their congregations should fight all non-Christian countries, especially the Muslims. Why, because they consider the Anti-Christ to be a madman from some Muslim country, that will amass Muslims around the world and try to dethrone the Christian/Jewish domination on world power. For in doing this, they can declare that their oboxious mix of Christianity and nationalistic patriotism is justified according to their doctrine. And hence they can condone and encourage war upon any country that is not aligned to their nationalistic god. But this is absolutely contraryto what the Bible teaches, and what the Lord himself taught.

For according to Jesus, the Anti-Christ will say he is Christ, and will try to win the church Christians to himself. He will say he is the 'Messiah', and try to win the Jews to himself. And he will try to say he is the 'Madhi', and try to win the Muslims to himself. In other words, he will attempt to teach and show them and demonstarte to them through his exploits and conquests that he is a fulfillment of all thier prophecies and expectations .... and that they therefore should bow to him and serve him because he will say he is the Christ and he is GOD.

But when does this one embodiment of the Anti-Christ come into power ? Well according to Daniel 7, and other scriptures the one and only Anti-Christ that is destined to lead the 8th World Empire, will arise after the Covenant of Daniel is signed, for he will be against it. ( SEE 7 Kingdoms of Man ). And then shall start the Great Tribulation of 1260 days. (See Daniel Timeline ). So let's go over more verses that show this ...with my comments in ....(...)

Mathew 24:21, 22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. (In other words, the Lord is telling us, that at the start of tribulation ..... many will be saying they are the 2nd coming or even the first coming of Christ. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM, and do not believe the world military and political leader, called the Beast that will be saying he is Christ. Because Jesus does not return until AFTER the Tribuation of 42 months SEE Rapture After the Tribulation )

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Why because at this time, the False Prophet and the A.C. Beast are doing miracles to deceive the whole religious world. Rev 13:13,14 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM !!! )


(Continued at .... http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/ACisnotagainstChruchSystem.html )


There is no need to attack the Church if the Church has been seduced, deceived, and overcome. And even married itself to the gospel of this world.

“We must continue useing cultural and moral issues to direct Christians toward a conservative free-market ideology, enlisting them in the cause of capitalism”
PBS special, September the 11th, Republican William Buckley)

“God is a capitalist and freemarketeer”
(Marvin Olasky, George W Bush’s religious advisor and spokesman, post election 2000)

The third temple is the human body.
Man already sits in it and denies there is a God. This is the spirit of Antichrist (the falling away has happened - because we have been imbued carnally - that is - after the flesh), and carnal mind cannot be under subjection to God.
The Beast as microcosm or antitype = the papacy
The Beast as macrcosm = the Christian nations after the flesh
The False Prophet is the world Christian superpower that imbues the world via its economic system after the flesh (it gives life to the image of the beast as microcosm), and makes that image corporate (the globalisation/one world monoculture in that image). The image of the beast is of a man lusting after natural riches not spiritual riches. And being imbued [by the false prophet] to live for those affections (motivated as to his animilistic nature) - which consumerism thrives from.

Abraham = the Father
Isaac = son of God, (the true Christ Jesus) and his image
Jacob = The Divine nature (after the spirit) = kingdom of Jacob

Satan = the Adversary
Beast = son of perdition (the false Christ/papacy) and his image
False Prophet = the antitype nature (aftter the flesh) = kingdom of Esau.

The False Prophet imbues us carnally (called giving life to the image of the beast) - and through the globalisation process "so no man can BUY OR SELL". Makes that image corporate. So the Beast is now a type of man that emerged in new world "out of the earth will others grow" (the macrocosm of the microcosm), and who imbued the world after the flesh (i.e told them to sow likewise). The globalisation of their carnal system of things represents the Kingdom of Esua that God is just about to overthrow (and banish everything that imbues us after the flesh).

Prophecy in fulfilled. Or virtually fulfilled. And it points at no one but us (the major Christian gentile nations).
All False Prophets think their own prophecies will point at others. Just as the Pharisees thought it pointed at Rome, yet rather at the plank in their own eye, and every aspect of our current lifestyles (what affections we are motivated by - i.e 666 in the head) - the lusts of the world "all that is goodly and daintly".

Its mark has been in existance now for years, and is global, and is on evverything that we "buy or sell".

The lion, eagle, leopard and bear of Daniel 7 and Rev 13 now represent the major Christian gentile nations that must all be on earth (collectivly) when the ancient of days sit (Dan 7:12).

The Beast out of the Sea represents the crowded old world of "multitudes nations and tounges" (Rev 17:15). Consisting of the ...
lion = UK
eagle = USA
leopard = Germany
Bear = Russia

While the missing symbol from Daniel 7 to Revelation 13 is of course the eagle. So the Beast out of the Earth is the eagle (the current world superpower - that is the U.S.A). How do we know that for sure? Look carefully at Daniel 7:4. Here we see the eagle seperating itself from British rule to grow up "from THE EARTH" Daniel 7:4 and thus "out of THE EARTH" in Revelation 13. As representing the New World. While all the others emerge from the "sea" as representing the crowded old world of "multitudes, nations and tongues". Thus we read "and OUT OF THE EARTH shall others grow" (Job 8:19).
So you can rest assured, Bible prophecy points to no one but the plank in our own eyes (i.e the major Christian gentile nations - all sowing after the flesh - i.e all beasts). Anyone that tells you any differently is prophesying "smooth things", and is a false prophet as the American Evangelicals and their politcal masters who have gave life to the image of the beast - and globalised it.

“We must continue useing cultural and moral issues to direct Christians toward a conservative free-market ideology, enlisting them in the cause of capitalism”
PBS special, September the 11th, Republican William Buckley)

“God is a capitalist and freemarketeer”
(Marvin Olasky, George W Bush’s religious advisor and spokesman, post election 2000)


i.e the oppossite character/image is that of "a beast" the Bible shows "these are brute beasts born to perish". A beast is the anttype of Gods image, the oppossite (a corporate type in these last days). As representing those who are imbued after the flesh (natural riches not spiritual riches), and therefore are spiritually ignorant.
the beasts are nations imbued after those affections, or people imbued after those affections, Daniel 7 tells us what they are.

Daniel 7:17
'The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth.
(Whole Chapter: Daniel 7 In context: Daniel 7:16-18)

But they are also types of people (and nations in the image of those types - as macrocosm).
They are called beasts as they are like animals as to their affections. A beast is like a greedy and ignornant man.
See below.... the Man of Sin is this type of man (i,e modern man) in the image of the beast as microcosm (the papacy), who lusted after natural riches, not spiritual riches, and was spiritually insane (see whole of Rev 18).

Psalm 49:12
But man, despite his riches, does not endure; he is like the beasts that perish.

Psalm 49:20
A man who has riches without understanding is like the beasts that perish.
(Whole Chapter: Psalm 49 In context: Psalm 49:19-21)

Psalm 73:22
I was senseless and ignorant; I was a brute beast before you.... when you awake O Lord you shall despise THEIR IMAGE
(Whole Chapter: Psalm 73 In context: Psalm 73:21-23)

Isaiah 56:9-10
All ye beasts of the field...His watchmen are blind, they are all ignorant, they are all dumb DOGS, they cannot bark; sleeping lying down, lovving to slumber, yea, THEY ARE GREEDY DOGS, which can never have enough, that they ARE SHEPHERDS THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND; they all look to their own way, everyone for his own gain, from his quarter
As the Roman Church and papacy did/do (the beast as microcosm and antitype).

Now look at the image of Nebucadnezzer in Daniel 2. The former world powers are represented as being "in" that image. These are the same as represented in Daniel 7 (that now represent the major Christian world powers at the time of the end) i.e the lion, eagle, leopard and bear. UK, USA, Germany and Russia.

Daniel says Nebucadnesser was "a beast". So this image of him with all the nations/world empires "in" that image is the image of the beast. Now king Neb was the King of Babylon - so what do we see? We see the King of Babylon (who in the Christian era is the papacy) with all the major Christian gentiles nations - literally - "in" him image (visualize it and you will understand bible prophecy). That is why the papacy as microcosm is called "the beast" and the nations in his carnal image (lusting after the same affections) are also called "beasts" as macrocosm.

The papacy is the antitype - the effect now corporate is represented by the New World Man who emerged in the latter day and "gave life" to that image, to those affections, and in the last 10 years (since the leopards fatal would was healed/berlin wall came down) - globalised that image via its economic system, "so no man can BUY OR SELL" without receiving the mark of every product that is bought or sold, identifying this system, and these days. That is the global Universal Product code - Bar code. Everyone of which reads 6-6-6 world wide.
As representing a world lusting after what the papacy lusted after "all that is goodly and daintly... MERCHANDISE OF .." and on and on it goes. i.e CONSUMERISM.

The False prophet imbues us after the Flesh
Jesus imbues us after the Spirit.


Man has lost the capacity to foresee and to forestall. He will end by destroying the earth.

-Albert Schweitzer (1875-1965)


In the kingdom of consumption the citizen is king. A democratic monarchy: equality before consumption, fraternity in consumption, and freedom through consumption. The dictatorship of consumer goods has finally destroyed the barriers of blood, lineage and race.

-Raoul Vaneigem, The Revolution of Everyday Life, 1967


From the 1890s on, American corporate business, in league with key institutions, began the transformation of American society into a society preoccupied with consumption, with comfort and bodily well-being, with luxury, spending, and acquisition, with more goods this year than last, more next year than this. American consumer capitalism produced a culture almost violently hostile to the past and tradition, a future-oriented culture of desire that confused the good life with goods. It was a culture that first appeared as an alternative culture—or as one moving largely against the grain of earlier traditions of republicanism and Christian virtue—and then unfolded to become the reigning culture of the United States.

-William Leach, Land of Desire, 1993


The whole attempt to advance the kind of consumer society that depends for its growth on the ceaseless stimulation of unlimited covetousness among the rich, while the poor majority rot in their poverty—this is surely something against which a Christian should be a nonconformist.

-Lesslie Newbigin (1909-1998), Journey Into Joy, 1972

Give the public the 'image' of what it thinks it ought to be, or what television commercials or glossy magazine ads have convinced us we ought to be, and we will buy more of the product, become closer to the image, and further from reality.

Madeline L'Engle, A Circle of Quiet, 1972

[Hitch]

LOL

[Sher]

/ot Hi :hi: Hitch :smile: How ya been?

:angel:

[Hitch]

'Bout the same... :)

[Sher]

Today @ 04:04 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=135480#post135480)
Hitch:

'Bout the same... :)

/ot Any day above ground ... and all that, huh? (Tell Symphony and the gang hi from me, will ya?) :smile:

[Hitch]

It a shame but that site has turned into a horrible mess...

[Sher]

Today @ 08:17 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=135635#post135635)
Hitch:

It a shame but that site has turned into a horrible mess...

:nc: ... but I feared it was headed that way ... thanks for the heads-up to TWeb

... I owe you big time :kiss: