I Cor. 15:22

[A Beautiful Truth]

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."

Who is made alive?

Certainly I Cor. 15:23 answers? Those who are Christ's at His coming. So even though it says, "all" it only means those who "receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness" (Rom.5:17)

This word *all* can be troublesome, no?

[John Reece]

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."

Who is made alive?

Certainly I Cor. 15:23 answers? Those who are Christ's at His coming. So even though it says, "all" it only means those who "receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness" (Rom.5:17)

This word *all* can be troublesome, no?

That reminds me of one of the sayings of the Professor of Semitic Languages at Duke in the middle of the last century (William F. Stinespring, who taught me Hebrew): "Beware of the all fallacy." He was referring to Hebrew Grammar, but the saying has broader application.

[A Beautiful Truth]

That reminds me of one of the sayings of the Professor of Semitic Languages at Duke in the middle of the last century (William F. Stinespring, who taught me Hebrew): "Beware of the all fallacy." He was referring to Hebrew Grammar, but the saying has broader application.

And what do you say of Paul's use of "all" when he says, "as in Adam all die". I take it to mean mankind because of the context of the scriptures. Some would like to include animals in here as well, but I don't think that is good exegesis.

[John Reece]

And what do you say of Paul's use of "all" when he says, "as in Adam all die". I take it to mean mankind because of the context of the scriptures. Some would like to include animals in here as well, but I don't think that is good exegesis.

I have not given it much thought, but I tend to agree with you.

[A Beautiful Truth]

If Christ's at His coming are raised to eternal life in their new incorruptable material spiritual bodies, then the text is clearly referring to spiritual death as a contrast to our future spiritual life at the resurrection when it says, "as in Adam all die", no? If it is referring to spiritual death (physical death obviously followed Adam's sinful disobedience--his spiritual death--I do not deny that. But the portion of scripture is not referring to the way animals die--only mankind) then it is exclusive to humans--it cannot include animals. Animals did not die "in Adam", nor will they be raised "in Christ." If we include animals in dying in Adam, we would have to include them in being made righteous and being raised in Christ if we wanted to be consistent in our exegesis.

It is not the case that animals will be made righteous and resurected in Christ, therefore, I Cor. 15 cannot be used to support that animals died in Adam.

[John Reece]

If Christ's at His coming are raised to eternal life in their new incorruptable material spiritual bodies, then the text is clearly referring to spiritual death as a contrast to our future spiritual life at the resurrection when it says, "as in Adam all die", no? If it is referring to spiritual death (physical death obviously followed Adam's sinful disobedience--his spiritual death--I do not deny that. But the portion of scripture is not referring to the way animals die--only mankind) then it is exclusive to humans--it cannot include animals. Animals did not die "in Adam", nor will they be raised "in Christ." If we include animals in dying in Adam, we would have to include them in being made righteous and being raised in Christ if we wanted to be consistent in our exegesis.

It is not the case that animals will be made righteous and resurected in Christ, therefore, I Cor. 15 cannot be used to support that animals died in Adam.

Charleen,

Do you know someone who believes that 1 Cor. 15 supports a belief that animals died in Adam and that they will be made righteous and resurrected in Christ?

Blessings,

John

[Dee Dee Warren]

Charleene I fear you have greatly misunderstood (and I think you are referring here to Soc or other YEC). No YEC makes the argument you are presenting here, at least not on this forum. Since I know you would not misrepresent an argument, there is a big misunderstanding. We YEC here believe that Adam's fall resulted in anaimal death, but do not use the "all" in that verse to support that.

[GrayPilgrim]

I would tend to agree with you that this passage is not teh primary one for discussing the subjugation of the animal world to death, that could be better made from other passages like Romans 8.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I agree.

[A Beautiful Truth]

Charleene I fear you have greatly misunderstood (and I think you are referring here to Soc or other YEC). No YEC makes the argument you are presenting here, at least not on this forum. Since I know you would not misrepresent an argument, there is a big misunderstanding. We YEC here believe that Adam's fall resulted in anaimal death, but do not use the "all" in that verse to support that.

Dee Dee,

I was sure I had heard YEC's use I Cor. 15 as an evidence that Adam's sin caused animal death. But I am glad you don't...

~Charleen

[Dee Dee Warren]

Charleen, and I am reconsidering the strength of my words to you - I apologize if they were too strong. But no YEC I personally know of uses that argument, or if they have, it slipped my notice. "All" in that verse has nothing to do with animals. If some YEC is using that verse to say that, I would agree with you that such would be incorrect.

[A Beautiful Truth]

Charleen, and I am reconsidering the strength of my words to you - I apologize if they were too strong. But no YEC I personally know of uses that argument, or if they have, it slipped my notice. "All" in that verse has nothing to do with animals. If some YEC is using that verse to say that, I would agree with you that such would be incorrect.

I understand. I will ask about Romans 5 in a thread as well to see what YEC's on Tweb think about that.