New Article on Recent Forgeries In Israel

[Vorkosigan]

Ostraca, Ossuary, Jehoash Tablet.... (http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Goren_Jerusalem_Syndrome.htm) by Yuval Goren.

"During the last decade and especially towards the end of the second millennium AD, a number of archaeological artifacts of unknown origin have surfaced on the local antiquities market. A common feature of these artifacts is their reference to Jerusalem through attributions to major biblical landmarks or personalities such as the Jerusalem Temple, Judahite kings and other officials, or Jesus Christ. This attribution is made both on the item, through a dedication text, and about it, through opinions by persons who are sources of authority in various scholarly fields. Methodologically, it seems that their peculiar treatment by the scientific community may be interpreted as a milder symptom of the Jerusalem Syndrome. In what follows, I would like to present in short the narratives of some of these items as they relate to the hazardous role of the Jerusalem Syndrome in biblical archaeology."

[Dr.GH]

Hershel Shanks, the editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review (BAR), has certainly harmed the scientific standing of BAR. It is interesting to consider that he is victim of a mental illness, "Jerusalem Syndrome."

However, I reject this diagnosis in favor of the simple notion that he is a member of a religious cult demanding that any seemingly supporting evidence(s) be accepted, and all obviously contradictory data be rejected.

I do not think that this cult membership is prima facia evidence of mental illness. Indeed, it is my professional experience that similar submission of thought is common. Humans are thinking beings, and there is an inate attempt to rationalize experience. "Rationization" in this sense means to minimize the number of separate and competing presumptions=axioms. One way is to create barriors between categories of phenomena and thought, and even easier is to reject contradictory evidence which contradicts preconception. I have seen this phenomena in action in many circumstances in both western and non-western situations. This projection of personal "experience" versus emperical fact has been experimentally demonstrated to be countered by social affirmation which is particularly effective when there is a strong difference in the individuals social status.

Thus Shanks, who is editor of a widely distributed journal and therefore of considerable status, is fairly immune from personal contradiction from "mere" scientists.

[Dr.GH]

I expect that this will be of some interest. The "Jesus" box seems to have been seen sans Jesus.

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Meyers_More%20Doubt.htm

I am not overwhelmed even though I agree that the artifact is a fake.

[learning]

I expect that this will be of some interest. The "Jesus" box seems to have been seen sans Jesus.

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Meyers_More%20Doubt.htm

I am not overwhelmed even though I agree that the artifact is a fake.

I have heard that an archaeologist in the U.S. had said that this box was for real, that the 'worn' marks on that name, were from merely cleaning or hands rubbing it.

Oh well, I probably fit into your 'cult' so I thought I'ld give you my idea of Jerusalem. :) I have found that city fascinating, though never have I been there. But here is what I find fascinating about it.
Luke 21:24 "They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

I don't know if this is the end of the Gentiles, but I kinda think that in the past few years, a few things point that way.
One was, the six day war in 1967, when Israeli soldiers got to Jerusalem.
The other is the Knesset, if you go to their website, look under 'Documents' and look under their law for Jerusalem, you will see that in 1980, Israel claimed that Jerusalem was their capital and that they had SOVEREIGNTY over all the religious sites. They allow the different groups, but they claim sovereignty. I don't know a lot about prophecy, but I think that is one fulfilled. Next up, signs in the sky and roaring of seas.

(I know this is getting a little off topic, but I couldn't help it when I read the 'Jerusalem phenomenon') and yes, I do know what that means. :)

[learning]

Well, well, I feel I owe an apology for my ramblings. Not that I believe what I said was wrong, but the spirit I said it in was.You see the Spirit of God isn't 'See, this is right, you can't disprove this.' I'm sorry, I just have been through so much in the past few years. Imagine at 40 having all your 'truth' being shot down the tubes. Where do you stand? Where do you go?
Here is sort of how I have thought about things, the truth, emperical truth?
Is it possible there is a 'truth' beyond 'emperical truth'? But of course, archaeology is dealing with 'emperical truth.'

Well, my quotes from George McDonald
" He cared for nothing but the truth, and yet he could never assure himself that anything was true. The more likely a thing looked to be true, the more anxious was he that it should be unassailable; and his fertile mind would in as many moments throw a score of objections at it, looking after each with eager eyes as if pleading for a refutation. It was the very love of what was good that generated in him doubt and anxiety."

I don't want to be like this person, as George McDonald wrote about.. :)
"...he was getting rather stupid-- one of the chief signs of which was that he believed less and less in things he had never seen."

Why do I bother coming to discuss things with persons who may not, nor want to, ever change their minds, or already have them made up? I think it is not so much for them, except for a few of them, but for those that are searching like I was, for answers to these questions that are thrown at us sometimes. We do not need evidence for God. He says His creation is enough. We do not need evidence for the Bible, His Spirit is enough. How many christians were illiterate, and yet they spoke, moved by the Spirit of God, and the educated ones who heard them were amazed.

I beg any Christians to remember this. God is enough, His Spirit is enough, and anything else is icing on the cake!

But, oh, I do like icing too! :)

[Vorkosigan]

I have heard that an archaeologist in the U.S. had said that this box was for real, that the 'worn' marks on that name, were from merely cleaning or hands rubbing it.

No US archaeologist has been prominently featured in this debacle. You might be thinking of the geologist who had an article in BAR. You should check out the more recent things at Bibleinterp.com, which is a great site for monitoring Christianity/judaism related events and articles.

In any case, a recent Israeli TV documentary and a new book are showing that Golan is the tip of an extensive forgery ring that has been operating for at least a decade.

Vorkosigan

[learning]

Actually, I think it was a geologists, from Texas or New Mexico, and yes, I think I read it in a Biblical Archaeology magazine, and forgive me, maybe I have the wrong 'name' or archaeological artifact. It was the one where it was about, I think James, where he was the brother of Jesus, son of Joseph.
The 'tomb' box, that actually was sent to Canada and got a crack in it on the way?
Is this the one we are talking about?