Acts 9 Dispy's Only Please

[GrayPilgrim]

I have heard the term, but still have no clue what it is. I would like this to be a place where you Acts 9'ers could spell it out and those of us who don't know can ask questions of clarification. :huh: I do not want this to be a debate thread. If this should be in a different forum please move it.

[truthman]

I agree that terms should be spelled out.

RightIdea, you wanna take it from here? I'm leaving town in less than a day and still have class tonight and still have to pack.

truthman

[yxboom]

Since this is directed to a specific group I am moving this to the Liberal Arts Dept.

[Jade]

I'm surprised no one else has answered this one. I know I'm not the only Acts9 dispensationalist around here. Anyway, I'll give a brief summary of the position and if anyone wants to fill in the details, they are more than welcomed to.

This view teaches that God originally planned to win the world through God's chosen -- the Jews.

Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD. Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days [it shall come to pass], that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard [that] God [is] with you. --Zec 8:23

During the dispensation of Law, the Israelites were expected to obey all of the law that God gave them (both moral and symbolic) to the utmost of their ability. They were to offer sacrifices (with a repentant heart) every year, asking God to "pass over" their sins (Lev 16:34) (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Lev/Lev016.html#34). And they had to have faith that God would cover their sins until the time that the Messiah could come and make a once time sacrifice for them (The book of Hebrews explains how this dispensation would operate after the Messiah had come). Also every child that was born of Jewish parentage was automatically a part of this dispensation as was anyone who became a Jewish citizen.

However the Jews rejected this plan; killed their own Messiah; and even when given an extra year to straighten up their act and produce "figs," continued to reject this plan. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "

--Luke13:9

This extra year ended (just after the stoning of Stephen) when God called Saul (soon to be, Apostle Paul) to His service.

At this time God set Israel (as a nation -- not the individual) aside for a time. God began the dispensation of Grace in which all can come directly to God by faith alone during this present dispensation of Grace. We, as individuals, are given the choice to either continue in our sins or accept Jesus' death and resurrection as payment for our sins. This dispensation is not based on parentage, but rather our own free will.

When God calls an end to this depensation of Grace, He will bring the nation of Israel back into his plan (as Paul mentioned in Romans 11:15).

I think that's a pretty good summary.

[Xmansmommy]

Jade:
I think that's a pretty good summary.
Ditto sister!

[truthman]

I agree Jade, that is a decent summary.

Might I add that the reason we are call Acts 9 dispensationalists is because that is the period of time during which Saul (Paul the Apostle) got saved and became the first member of the vacant Body of Christ.

Paul was the first person to be filled with the Holy Spirit before being water baptism.

truthman

[Sheepdog]

Interesting.

I'd rather consider this age to have started at Pentacost as described in Acts 2 or even at Christ's resurrection, but i can certainly see the reasoning behind placing it in Acts 9 (i am not settled on my eschatology).

Now, i've noticed a lot of OVers around here are also Act9 dispies. What I am curious of, is this just a coincidence, or is there some sort of relationship between the systemaic theology and the eschatology?

[truthman]

sheepdog,

Two things.

1. So that I'm not accused of putting words in your mouth, what evidences are you beginning to see that this 'age' began during the Acts 9 time period versus the Acts 2 time period?

2. The relationship between OV and Ax9 (or really any dispensational hermeneutic) is that we just don't see how God either predetermined or even foreknew man's failure (specifically Israel's). The reason I say that is because every dispensation begins because mankind failed the faith expression requirements of the previous dispensation.

truthman

[truthman]

Moderator, can someone please move this thread somewhere where discussion can happen?

Thanks in advance.........truthman

[yxboom]

it is up to Graypilgrim otherwise you can always create a thread in the appropo forum and link it from here to continue the discussion.

[Xavier]

:digger:

Look I found a lost text fragment...

...Liberal Arts Department...

Archeologists are baffled... :teeth:

[truthman]

:huh:

GrayPilgrim, what do you think?

truthman

[Xavier]

Oops... I misread the year in Sheepdog's latest... I thought he was apart of the original string from Jan of 2003... Ignore me.

[Sheepdog]

sheepdog,

Two things.

1. So that I'm not accused of putting words in your mouth, what evidences are you beginning to see that this 'age' began during the Acts 9 time period versus the Acts 2 time period? i don't see any evidence for it, to be honest. i'm just noting that starting the new age at Acts 9 used to seem arbitrary to me, but now i see there is a reason for it.

2. The relationship between OV and Ax9 (or really any dispensational hermeneutic) is that we just don't see how God either predetermined or even foreknew man's failure (specifically Israel's). The reason I say that is because every dispensation begins because mankind failed the faith expression requirements of the previous dispensation. i see. at the risk of setting up a strawman, it sounds like i notion here i that we are plan B. and, from an OV theology, this fits well with the facts.

i place the new age as being ussuring in at the cross. it was there that the law was fulfilled, and a new covenant was made between God and his people (which now was opened up to the Gentiles more). this, however, wasn't plan B, but was anticipated and even decreed. some think there is even an allusion to Christ's victory over the Devil as early as Gen. 3:15.

i hold to EDF, so i do believe God anticipated Isreal's rejection of their Messiah.

[yxboom]

Sheepdog, your post is preserved in whole until GP responds this post will be put on hold. If you wish to have the contents of this post to start another thread in the appropriate forum linking it to here you are more than welcome to do so.

[Sheepdog]

my apologies. i keep forgeting the protocol for this section.

[GrayPilgrim]

my apologies. i keep forgeting the protocol for this section.

I had completely forgotten about this thread so I'll let Sheepdog's post fly