themuzicman
February 19th 2004, 05:26 PM
Well, let's see: we have Jesus and the Father as God in JOhn 1:1-14
In R1 the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
And just in case you didn't see the distinction between Father and Jesus:
John 5:30-27
30 "I R70 can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
31 "If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true. 32 "There is another who testifies of Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true.
33 "You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth. 34 "But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. 35 "He was the lamp that was burning and was shining and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light.
36 "But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish--the very works that I do--testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.
37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38 "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
So, Jesus must be God, but also must be enough distinct from the Father than the Father can testify of Him without bearing false witness. (I believe that's commandment #8.)
So, we have God the Father, and God the Son, so far, with proof soley from scripture. You with me so far? (No this isn't the end, just the beginning.)
Michael
Ezraarah
March 10th 2004, 10:51 PM
Well, let's see: we have Jesus and the Father as God in JOhn 1:1-14
In R1 the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
And just in case you didn't see the distinction between Father and Jesus:
John 5:30-27
30 "I R70 can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
31 "If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true. 32 "There is another who testifies of Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true.
33 "You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth. 34 "But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. 35 "He was the lamp that was burning and was shining and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light.
36 "But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish--the very works that I do--testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.
37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38 "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
So, Jesus must be God, but also must be enough distinct from the Father than the Father can testify of Him without bearing false witness. (I believe that's commandment #8.)
So, we have God the Father, and God the Son, so far, with proof soley from scripture. You with me so far? (No this isn't the end, just the beginning.)
Michael
Ques ; Is There A Difference BetweenThe Father And The Son In The Bible ?
If you ask any Christian who are these Verse pertaining to they would Answer
( WithOut A Doubt In Their Minds ) . that these Verse are Speaking of The Messiah Yashua , Also Take A LQQk At The Many Titles Which Are Attributed To Him . < Biblical Names Attributed To The Messiah Yashua >
The seed of woman < Genesis 3 ; 15 > The caption of Savation < Job 5 ; 13 - 14 > Wonderful < Isaiah 9 ; 6 ; Judge 13 ; 8 > I am that I am < Ex odus 3 ; 14 > The mighty God < Isaiah 9 ; 6 > Emmanuel < Isaiah 7; 14 > The Rose of Sharon lilly of the valley < Song of Solomon 2 ; 1 > Theprince of pace < Isaiah 9- 6 > The Mediator < 1Timothy 2 ; 5 > The helper < Hebrew 13 ; 6> The Rewarder of Faith < Hebrew11 ; 6 > The Branch < Zachariah 6 ; 12 > A Man of sorrows < Isaiah 53 ; 3 > The Bringer of Good Tidings < Isaiah 41 ; 27 > The Chief Cornerstone < Isaiah 28 ; 16 > The Redeemer < Job 19 ; 25 >
This is only a small list of the different names that are Attributed to The Messiah Yashua Without Even His Name Being Mentioned . I Repeat The Name '' Yashua / Jesus '' IS NOT FOUND IN ANY OF THESE VERSE . HowEver , You Have Christian Will Undoubtedly Tell You That These Verse Are In Fact Speaking About The Messiah Yashua < NOT >
I Again Repeat The Name '' Yashua / Jesus '' IS NOT FOUND IN ANY OF THESE VERSE .. OverStand SomeThing Ok I Deal Only In Facts Ok
Ans. There is a distinction made between the father , And the son John 5 ; 19 ''Then Answered Jesus And Said Unto Them , Verity , Verily , I Say Unto You The Son ( Hwee - Os ) . Can Do Nothing Of Himself , But What He Seeth The Father ( Pat - Ayr ) Notice Greek Word For Son is Spell ( Hwee - Os )
Bible - New Testament , 2John 1 - 3 ( With Greek Insert ) states , Grace be with you , mercy , and peace , from God the Father , and from the Lord Jesus Christ , theSon of the Father , in truth and love , '' .... Then when you go to 1John 4 ;14 - New Testament ( With Greek Insert ) A Letter To His Girl Friend Cyria , You Read ;... And We Have Seen And Do Testify That The Father Sent The Son To Be The Saviour Of The World '' And In 1John 2 ; 22 - New Testament ( With Greek Insert ) You Read , '' Who Is A Liar But He That Denieth That Jesus Is The Christ ? He Is Antichrist , That Denieth The Father And The Son '' These quotes above aremaking it clear that Jesus and God are not the same being or person , NoMore Then You And Your Father Are TheSame Person . LQQking at these quotes from Your King James Version of the Bible , Jesus could not have possibly been The Son And The Father . He has to be Either one or the other , And it is very clear which one is The Son That's All Just like all of Us are Children Of God ( John 10 ; 34 - 36 ) . So now as far as when They say in The Greek Translation John 1 ; 1 - New Testament ( With Greek Insert ) , It States ... '' In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God and the Word was God , <> They are really saying '' In The Beginning Their Was An Oath And That Oath Was The Word , ;....The Greek Word For In Is
'' En '' Which is also The Sumerian Word '' En '' or An '' Name Of The Highest And It Denotes A Position '' In Place , Time Or States Thus God Must Have Been At A Specific Place , At A Specific Time '' In The Beginning '' And Was God The Word ( Logos ) or Was The World ( Logos ) With God . Because It Couldn't Be With God And Be God . < Statement In Itself Would Contradict Itself ; The Word In Greek Log -Os Was A '' Speech , Saying , Decree '' From the Root Word Leg - O meaning '' Say , Speak '' Which In Hebrew would be Daw - Bar '' Word , Saying , Speech , Utterance '' Genesis 15 ; 1 , 4 , And The Greek Word Used For Beginning Is Ar - Khay Meaning '' Chief ( Order , Time , Place , Or Rank ) ;....Beginning , Corner ( At The , The ) First ( Estate ) Magistrate . Power , Principality . Principle , Rule ''
American Heritage Dictionary Defines Arch . As ;
Chief , Principal . From Middle English . Arche From , Old English , Arce , Erce , From Latin , Archi - Arch - , Fr Greek Arci . Are , Meaning '' Leader , Chief Ruler ' From The Stem Of Arceiv , To Begin , Rule '
In Serveral Quotes In The New Testament Jesus Made It Clear That You Are To Worship God And Not Him When He Made Reference To God He Used The Third Person Singular '' Him '' Not The First Person Singular Me In Luke 4; 8 Jesus Says And I Quote He Said Worship Him Not Me
In John 4 ; 23 - 24 Jesus States Againt In The Red Letter Writting Of Your Bible And I Quote He Said Worship Him And Not Me .
And In John 14 ; 10 Jesus Gives All Praise And Gratitude To His Heavenly Father And I Quote He Used The Word He Not Me
The ( Trinity ) Is Of ( Pagan ) Origion And Every ( Pholytheistic ) Culture Has Their Own Reprentation Of It ... Common Sense Should Tell You That Three Person Yet One God Theory Is Impossible ..
( 1 ) Plus ( 1) Plus 1
God The Father God The Son God The Holy Ghost
Three Cannot Go Into One , With Yashu'a Was God How Could He Forsaken Himself (Matthew 27 ; 46 ... Mark 15; 34 ) And If He Was God Who Was He Calling Out To Himself ? I Thought God So Loved The World , That He Sent His Son To Die For You .. If That's True As John 3; 16 Says , Then Jesus Had Nothing To Do With It It Was That Father That Sent Him . In Matthew 6 ; 9 As Jesus Say '' Our Father Who Art In Heaven '' Because Jesus Say In John 13 ; 16 '' I Am Not Greater Than He Who Sent Me '' And In John 5; 30 He Says Again That '' I On My Own Accord Can Do Nothing '' Call No Man Father , Because There Is One Father Who Art In Heaven And Jesus Says Clearly In Matthew 23; 9 '' And Call No Man Your Father Upon The Earth
Truth Is Truth And If It Was About His Father's Will Then Why Did Jesus SAy In Matthew 26; 38 >> If Be Possible Let This Cup Pass By Me ; Nevertheless Not As I Will , But As Thou Wilt ''
Let Me Point Out A Few Points From Your Bible Stating That Jesus Couldn't Possibly Be God ..
Mark 15 ; 34 >> Jesus cried out with a loud voice My God , My God Why have thou Forsaken Me . <<< If Jesus was God who could he be praying to if he is the only God , and to cry is a human Weakness .
Mathew 4; 1 >>Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil << If Jesus was God how could the devil Possibly be able to tempt him without him knowing >> And What Could The Devil Possibly Offer The Creator Of Everything .
Luke 14 ; 26 >> If anyman come to me , and hate not his Father And Mother And Wife And Chrildren And Brethren And Sister , Yea And His Own Life Also , He Cannot Be My Disciple . <<< If Jesus was God and he so loved the world why would you have to hate your family And even yourself , when it say in Leviticus 19 ; 1 That Hatred Is A Sin
John 14 ; 2 >> In My Father House Are Many Mansions .>>> Jesus Said In My Father's House , He [ Didsn't Say In My House ] Would It Have Made Sense To Say In My House [ If He Was God ? ]
Luke 2; 49 >> That I Must Be About My Father's Business '>> If Jesus Was God Why Did He Say I Must Be Of My Fathers Business , He Indicated . [ The Distinction Between Him And His Father .
I'm Should You Can Find More If You Open Your Eyes , Thoughout Your Bible It Speak About Jesus Being The Son Of God , And Not God Himself
What Other Proof Do I Have That Jesus And The Father Are Two Separate Beings ..?
Was Only A Man >> Matthew 1 ; 25 ...... Was Baptized >>>> Matthew 3; 13
Was Tempted >>>> Matthew 4; 1 ...... Slept >>>> Matthew 8 ; 24
Ate >>> Luke 24 ; 42 ...... Hungered >>>> Matthew 21 ; 18
Weakened >>> John 4; 6 .... Said Something He Shouldn't Have John 20; 17
Cried At Lazarus Grave >> John 20; 17
What Is A Trinity ?
The Word For Trinity In Aramic / Hebrew Is Shelesh , And ;; Triad '' It Is Mentioned Only In 1Chronicles 7; 35 And Thalaathatin In Ashuric / Syriac / Arabic Found In The Koran 4 ; 171 , 5;73 And Means ; Trinity , Triad , Triple , The Greek Word For Trinity Is Triad ( 1John 5 ; 7 ) . Triad Simply Means Tri Which Means Three ( 3 ) . When You Take Any Three Things And Say They Make Up Any One Thing That Would Be A Trinty , There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing , In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son . This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One .
The Prophet Messiah Yashu'a / Jesus Is Not Alive And The Father Is God Not The Son .. The Prophet Messiah Yashu'a / Jesus Accodring To The Christian Teaching Die At The Age Of 33 , By Saying That He Is '' Alive Again '' Mean God Died Before ????? !!!!!! < Mrs. Nancy > Smileing >> That Make Absolutely No Sense . You Stated Now That He Is Alive Again Forever He Is God . So What You're Saying Is That God Died And Came Back To Life , And At Some Point He Stopped Being God God Is All Existing . And Made It Possible For All Things To Exist . If He '' Dies '' What Do You Think Would Happen To The Rest Of Us . Exactly . We Would All Cease To Exist As Well Because We Are All Apart Of The Heavenly Father . Also , If The Prophet Messiah Yashu'a / Jesus Is God The Who Was He Praying To In Matthew 6 ; 9 - 13 He Says Our Father Who Art In Heaven '' , So He's Not God Or Otherwise He Would've Been Praying To Himself . Let Me Point Out To You That The Prophet Messiah Yashu'a / Jesus Was And Israelite . It Is Common Sense That The Prophet Messiah Yashu'a / Jesus Would Not Violate Such A Powerful Israelite Judaic Command As The Worship Of God Alone ( Exodus 20; 3 - 4 ) By Claiming To Be That Very God Whom He Pray To In Matthew 26 ; 39 .
'' AND HE WENT A LITTLE FARTHER
AND FELL ON HIS FACE AND PRAYED
( SAYING , O FATHER MY FATHER )
Think About It . It Doesn't Make Much Sense For Jesus To Pray To Himself . If Jesus Was God , He Wouldn't Have No Need To PRAY . In Several Quotes In The New Tesament The Prophet Messiah Yashu'a / Jesus Made It Clear That Your Are To Worship God AndNot Him . When He Made Reference To God , He Used The THIRD Person Singular '' Him '' Not The First Person Singular '' Me '' In Luke 4 ; 8 JesusSaysAnd I Quote ;
AND JESUS ANSWER AND SAID
UNTO HIM GET THEE BEHIND ME
SATAN ; FOR IT IS WRITTEN , THOU
SHALT WORSHIP THE LORD THY GOD
AND HIM ONLY SHALT THOU SERVE ''
He Said Worship Him Not Me
In John 4 ; 23 - 24 Jesus States Again In The Red Letter Writting Of Your Bible And I Quote
'' BUT THE HOUR COMETH AND NOW IS WHEN THE TRUE WORSHIPPERS SHALL WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH ; FOR THE FATHER SEEKETH SUCH TO WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH . < He Said Worship Him And Not Me .
And In John 14 ; 10 JesusGive All Praise AndGratitude To His Heavenlt Father And I Quote ;
BELIEVEST THOU NOT THAT I AM IN
THE FATHER , AND THE FATHER IN ME ?
THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU I
SPEAK NOT OF MYSELF ; BUT THE FATHER
THAT DWELLETH IN ME , HEDOETH THE WORKS
He Used The Word He Not Me
No Man's Body Can Contain God , Not If You Mean That He Has The Essence Of His Father In Him , Then All Man Are God's Son And Daughter , Read Genesis 2 ;7 When God Breathe Into Man The Breath Of Life '' And The Lord God Formed Man From The Dust Of The Ground , And Breathed Into His Nostrils The Breath Of Life ; And Man Became A Living Soul . .. However , Getting Back To The Point Whether He Incarnated Or Came Himself There Still Wouldn't Be Any Need For Him To Pray Or Ask For Assistance From Anyone If He Was God , The Creator . Can't You See That ?Not Only Would He Not Need To Pray He Would Have No Desire To Eat Meat
Luke 24 ; 41 , Beg That Death Passes Him Matthew 26 ; 39 , Feared AndRan For His Life John 18 ; 3 Which Means That '' God Has To Run From His Creation . It Seems Like You Totally Ignored All Of These Scriptures And Found One That Sound Good To You , And Built A Whole Doctrine From It . Another Quality That The Prophet Messiah Yashu'a / Jesus Did Not Possess According To Roman 13 ; 1 And
2Corinthians 1 ; 23 Is The Power To Assign The Soul Their Positions In The Hereafter According To The Author Of These 2 Books Which Was Paul . Only The Heavenly Father Possess Such Power . Exalting Jesus Beyond The Truth Is Shown To Be A Form Of Idolatry . Once Again In Matthew 7 ; 21 Jesus Tells People To Do The Will Of The Father . ... In Both Luke 4 ; 8 And Mathew 4; 10 We Come Across An Incident That Clearly Contradicts The Concept Of Jesus Claining Absolute Divinity . According To These Two References Matthew 27 ; 46 And Mark 15 ;34 Jesus Was Put On The Cross Left To Die . Then According To Those Who Believe The Crucifixion Story , At That Time Jesus Cried In A Loud Voice . If Jesus Was God He Would Not Have To Say Any Of These Things In The First Place . How Could You Possibly Forsake Your Ownself ? If HeWas God Or Eli As It Is Used In This Quote , He Would Not Need Consent From Anyone . Overstand ... This Could Not Possibly Be The Words Of A person Who Saw Himself As The The Controller Of All Life And Death Because He Cried Out '' My God '' It Simply Isn't Logical . The Prophet Messiah Yashu'a / Jesus Never Encouraged Anyone To Worship Him Instead , He Taught Others To Worship His Father .. As I Have Just Shown You By Useing The Scripture .
.
apologetics
March 11th 2004, 04:36 PM
This is the second thread (on this exact same topic) that I have seen Ezraarah posting in and he uses the exact same posting format. Is anyone reading all of it? It is by far the most annoying posting format that I have seen to date on Tweb.
I will gladly give anyone here rep point/and or pearls if you are actually reading all of it. You actually deserve a medal of valour or a purple heart.....
Ezraarah....just my opinion, but your posts are completely goofy. From the little bit I have read, I completely disagree with your conclusions and have seen enough to know that you are an eisegetical wizard....getting the Bible to say just about anything YOU want it to say.
I have gotten to the point that I will not even read a single word of your posts. You appear to be fanatical....or possibly maniacal.
jason
March 11th 2004, 06:32 PM
I will gladly give anyone here rep point/and or pearls if you are actually reading all of it. You actually deserve a medal of valour or a purple heart.....
I read one of his posts in its entirety in the the other thread.
He was way of base and claimed to be presenting "facts" so he is either simply ignorant of them, or is a deceiver.
Either way, he is not worth paying attention to.
Jason
jason
March 11th 2004, 06:42 PM
Ques ; Is There A Difference BetweenThe Father And The Son In The Bible ?
If you ask any Christian who are these Verse pertaining to they would Answer
--snip--
And despite all your unreadable ramblings you don't answer why Jesus would accept worship as God ("My Lord and My God" John 20:28).
If what you say is true that Christ is not God then he is in reality as Blasphemer.
And yet, this was a post-resurrection appearance at which this took place.
Will one of you non-trinitiarian heretics please answer that question.
Preferably in a manner that is actually readable and not just a page of cut and paste ramblings.
Jason
Ezraarah
March 12th 2004, 07:52 PM
First You Name Tell Who You Are . And I Can Tell By Some Of The Threads You Have Written. That You Have About Enought Knowledge About Your Belief And Bible As And Eye Of A Needle A Small Needle At That . At AnyTime You Feel Like You Can Prove AnyThing I Say Is Wrong The Bring On . Don't Hide Under dee dee warren Dress . And As For As [ Cuting & Pasteing ] , Again That Show You Can't Tell ReSearch SomeThing You Don't Know AnyThing About According To Some Of The Threads You A Posted . If AnyOne Is Cuting And Pasteing It's dee dee warren Her Threads LQQk Like It Been Copy Right Out Some Book Even You Should Be Able To See That ...What She Fears Is I Have More Knowledge Of The Bible Then She Does And She Knows It .. Because I Have As Her If I Could Ask Her Some Question And She Say No ..Guess She Didn't Want To Lose Control Over Her Some Ups
jason
March 12th 2004, 09:26 PM
First You Name Tell Who You Are . And I Can Tell By Some Of The Threads You Have Written. That You Have About Enought Knowledge About Your Belief And Bible As And Eye Of A Needle A Small Needle At That .:lmbo:
At AnyTime You Feel Like You Can Prove AnyThing I Say Is Wrong The Bring On . Don't Hide Under dee dee warren Dress .Umm ... you don't reply when anybody points out errors you make.
And As For As [ Cuting & Pasteing ] , Again That Show You Can't Tell ReSearch SomeThing You Don't Know AnyThing About According To Some Of The Threads You A Posted .:lmbo:
What She Fears Is I Have More Knowledge Of The Bible Then She Does And She Knows It ..For a guy that doesn't even know when Jerome did his translation and when the doctrine of the trinity was first formulated, you have some hide suggesting someone else has less understanding than you.
But I think everybody has already worked out exactly what you are.
I'm just wondering are you a relative of Ted Kaczynski by any chance ? Your style seems similar.
Jason
mickiel
March 12th 2004, 11:41 PM
Does anyone have Scriptural references to support the Trinity? If so, I would like to see them. I only take proof from the infallible Word of God.
There are no scriptures, there is only the mind of christianity, which is a whole nother book. Any brain that list scriptures under this thread, is living in fantasy island, or the world of traditional thought. Notice how short and misguided these answers will be. Perhaps when this is finished, you can take the lack of help as your answer, or the futile use of scripture as the evidence your mind is afraid to admit. Peace.
jason
March 13th 2004, 01:59 AM
There are no scriptures, there is only the mind of christianity, which is a whole nother book. Any brain that list scriptures under this thread, is living in fantasy island, or the world of traditional thought. Notice how short and misguided these answers will be. Perhaps when this is finished, you can take the lack of help as your answer, or the futile use of scripture as the evidence your mind is afraid to admit. Peace.You made exactly this claim in the other thread.
Then you got spanked.
Now you are making the claim in this thread.
Do you think you could actually answer the questions in the other thread rather than just running over here and saying the same thing you completely failed to defend in the other thread ?
Jason
mickiel
March 13th 2004, 11:44 PM
You made exactly this claim in the other thread.
Then you got spanked.
Even this supposed spanking is in your mind.
Now you are making the claim in this thread.
Do you think you could actually answer the questions in the other thread rather than just running over here and saying the same thing you completely failed to defend in the other thread ?
Jason
I have no need to defend against those who speak different lanquages than I. But if it offends you that I am in this thread, I will post no more here, or anywherelse you would like me to leave. Simpoly list the threads you would like me to leave.
jason
March 14th 2004, 07:42 AM
I have no need to defend against those who speak different lanquages than I. But if it offends you that I am in this thread, I will post no more here, or anywherelse you would like me to leave. Simpoly list the threads you would like me to leave.No what I want you to do is to answer the questions asked of you and defend your position as apologetics and myself have done.
Not just run from one thread to another making the same claim but not defending it.
Jason
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