A Bizarre Problem for a Woman

[elysian]

My husband cares about two things: beer, and gambling. Perhaps he might have some affection toward his toady buddy he parties with who I have to put up with every weekend, but I'm pretty sure they're not doing the nasty. When he's not drunk, stoned or at work, the only conversation he has with me is ordering me around to do his errands, fix meals, clean up after him, etc. It's like I pay him (because guess who pays the bills..) to be his maid. That being said, either he or me (or likely both) is/are completely bizarre.

I hear women complain that all their husbands want is sex. I'm lucky to get it two or three times a year and I always have to initiate it. What really sux about this is that I enjoy sex (and I think part of his "frigidity" is that he knows it really torques me.) I didn't get married to be celibate- and quite frankly I don't have any desire to work two jobs -as well as living in a state of permanent frustration- which is what this marriage seems to be about- me being a slave.

My question is: is it "normal" for a man to be absolutely disinterested in sex? He says his complete lack of libido has nothing to do with me but I don't believe it. He will not see a doctor about it either because he knows a doctor will blame his beer drinking and he's not about to give THAT up. There's no way I'd ever be as high on his priority list as beer is! I will freely admit, I'm no Demi Moore -but I am very particular about such things as dress, cleanliness and hygiene. It's not like I'm grossly fat, or have excessive body hair or have nasty teeth or poor dental hygiene and I do bathe both thoroughly and daily, etc. I do have nasty disfiguring scars from my c-section and they are gross no matter what I do but he knew about those before we got married. Either he has some kind of medical problem or perhaps a mental problem? Anyone have a thought? And yes, if it weren't for what I believe about marriage (that it should be life-long) believe me I'd have traded up long ago. That's not an option.

[themuzicman]

Having been married 19 years, I can tell you that my wife is attractive to me because I choose to be attracted to her, because I value her as a person.

I can also tell you that our sex life has been down a bit lately, mainly because we're too exhausted from running kids from hither to yon and life in general. So, if he isn't generating and reserving some energy for sex, he's not going to be attracted to anyone except maybe a 20 something honey who takes a liking to him, and even then he'd probably be ill equipped to handle her.

The problem is fully his and not yours.

(What would happen if you told him to do it himself?)

Michael

[elysian]

Having been married 19 years, I can tell you that my wife is attractive to me because I choose to be attracted to her, because I value her as a person.

I can also tell you that our sex life has been down a bit lately, mainly because we're too exhausted from running kids from hither to yon and life in general. So, if he isn't generating and reserving some energy for sex, he's not going to be attracted to anyone except maybe a 20 something honey who takes a liking to him, and even then he'd probably be ill equipped to handle her.

The problem is fully his and not yours.

(What would happen if you told him to do it himself?)

Michael

Well I did have occasion to discuss some of this (but I kept off the libido issue, because he gets defensive when I bring it up) last night. I know he has a lot going on at work- winter is the busy season for body shops and he has a lot of responsibility at work. But he doesn't leave work at work, and his idea of "reducing stress" is to drink beer with his buddies and gamble at the Moose. So by the time he gets home he's wasted and broke and frankly not worth talking to. If not for my income and the fact that part of his check is direct-deposited we would be in dire financial straits- but I don't let him near the checkbook for obvious reasons. So the money he blows (arguably it would be far better if it were saved) is "disposable income" but I have to admit the poor stewardship of money disturbs me.

I know I can't uphold a non-believer to Christian standards so as long as I can keep the bills paid I shouldn't complain, but it still bothers me. What's worse than the money is the time, and I did let him know that it makes me feel as if I am nothing more than a live-in maid when he spends all his time getting drunk with his buddies. I let him know (and I have approached this before, but admittedly I was angry and it wasn't approached in a nice way) that I deeply resent the weekly house pest- his obnoxious buddy- camping out at our house every weekend. Whether or not he will do something about that I don't know. The past couple of nights he has been coming home right after work and he pleasantly surprised me last night. I was rinsing out my hair color (and yes, most women over 30 color their hair-whether they admit it or not- I started going grey when I was 26) and he came up behind me and helped me rinse out my hair and get the excess color off my neck. It was a sweet gesture in that he seldom touches me or approaches me in any way unless he wants me to do something for him.

Maybe the problem is I'm extremely low-maintenance. I was taught from earliest childhood to be independent and to fend for myself, and I tend to be a bit of a loner as well. When I was about 12 my mother injured her back and was bedridden for 6 months and Dad worked long hours, I ended up being responsible for cleaning, laundry and meals (because my sisters were in sports, etc. they were never at home to order around) and this continued until I moved out when I was 21. So I was used to just doing what needed done, and I was used to my Dad barking orders. You just did it and if you knew what was good for you, you didn't argue. I have to admit he could be harsh, but I learned the value of hard work. He did pay me for working at his automotive repair shop (I worked there during high school and college, as well as doing all the chores and cooking at home) and I always had a car to drive, and some spending money, when most of my friends didn't.

I have tried to encourage Jerry to do more- occasionally to fix himself a meal for instance, but he grew up in an environment where his mother and sisters did everything for him. Long after he moved out his mother brought him meals and she would even do his laundry for him. He is 46 years old and has never washed a dish or done a load of clothes in his life. One of his attempts at cooking (microwave popcorn) ended in him catching the microwave on fire (five minutes is WAY too long in a 1000 watt microwave) so I'm a bit protective of the appliances...though I will admit he does OK with the boxed frozen meals because the cook time is on the box. The man didn't need a wife, he needed a mommy.

So I'll see how this weekend goes. Tonight we are having some of our son's friends over so Jerry can't have his buddy over tonight (YAY!!!) and he can't drink beer. This will be good, and perhaps he will have a good time playing with and looking after the boys.

[themuzicman]

Why don't you take a few nights every week and just go out? Tell him you're going to be with some friends and just go have some fun. And then do it! Make it a regular thing.... Go out for dinner with them (so you don't have to cook), and spend until 9 or 10 having fun!

[elysian]

Why don't you take a few nights every week and just go out? Tell him you're going to be with some friends and just go have some fun. And then do it! Make it a regular thing.... Go out for dinner with them (so you don't have to cook), and spend until 9 or 10 having fun!

I do go to Bible study one or two nights a week depending on which classes we have going on. But I've not thought about maybe having dinner with some of the ladies from class... that would be fun!

[themuzicman]

Make it a regular thing, and then make him take some of the duties around the house, when you're gone. Marriage doesn't mean you're a doormat, you know.

[Rahab]

(((((Elysian))))))

Your posts contain a wealth of information as to what could be the underlying reasons for your hubby to be both "not interested in sex" and on the heavy drinking side. I doubt he is drinking that much beer because he likes its taste....depending on how long he has been drinking, he is somehow "drowning" his personal unresolved issues into drinking.
Have you considered exploring the possibility that he may be an alcoholic? I know you have not stated so.....but I must ask. If you come to that conclusion, one important advice.... do not become co dependent. That may already be in place in the way he orders you around and you seem to react to his demands. There is already something dysfunctional happening in the way you relate to one another. You seem to rearrange and reorganize your life around his. Are you attempting to promote normality in your home? do you find yourself thinking ahead of time what you must be prepared to do in case he does one thing or the other?
I am asking you those questions not to probe but to help you reflect on them.

If you establish that you may be already co dependent....contact Al Alanon. Their support groups are very helpful to guide spouses of alcoholics. You will have to help yourself first. You are the one person to be preserved and encouraged for now.

One thing which can happen in that age group of men, is that they "do not like themselves". If they dislike their physical appearance, they are not so enclined to have sex. They can also doubt their ability to "perform" sex efficiently. That insecurity can demean their libido. Nearing the fifties can be a crisis for both men and women.....Men need to have our admiration. They really do. And it is probably very difficult to tell a drunk hubby " oh I love the expression in your eyes". You might have to make an effort there to reflect on what you can tell him SINCERELY which may make him the appealing man you were first attracted to years ago.......You can guide " how he feels about himself".

For the time being, seeking counseling for yourself is my advice. Secondly, establish whether or not he has an addictive personality. If yes...only his willingness to recognize it and consider what he may lose (his family) will be the first step to his recovery. I am giving you a realistic approach. A bit brutal I realize. When the sense of loss becomes greater than the pseudo gain of any addictive behavior, it triggers the willingness to quit. It will be up to your counselor to help you make those difficult decisions.

In the meantime you MUST take care of yourself. You are not expandable. No matter how self reliant you may be, you are a human being who has a legitimate need to be valued and loved. And you need to recapture the wonderful creature God has made you to be. Look for various books from Kay Arthur who has a vibrant ministry for women in all kinds of difficult relationships or circumstances.

If you need spiritual support and prayer or a shoulder to vent or rant or weep on, feel free to contact me on PM.

Holy Hugs..... Veronique.

[elysian]

Thanks, Veronique.

I have been seeing a Christian counselor for the past year or so- in the past 5 years I've really needed to deal with a number of issues, and be set free from a number of bondages. By God's grace I no longer drink or smoke (these were big issues for me) and I have had to learn new perspectives on work as well as nutrition and attitude. I literally almost worked myself to death at one point. Most of my adult life I have drowned my pain in intense overwork (sometimes as much as 80 hours or more a week) as well as in sex and drinking. I was a chain smoker for many years too. So I'm not exactly a paragon of mental health- in fact I'm just getting to the point where I'm being able to be comfortable dealing with me and confronting all the things I ran from in the past.

I am thankful that by God's grace I am learning to set boundaries. One is that I go to church and to Bible study and I volunteer with the middle school kids. Those are non-negotiable, no matter how much he doesn't want me to go to church. I am also learning to let him suffer the consequences for his behavior and I am encouraging him to do simple things like warming up meals. It isn't easy. But I'm unrealistic to think that just because by God's grace He is helping me be healed that the same things will happen in the same timing for him. Part of it too is impatience on my part- I see the ladies at church whose husbands support them in their faith - and I see my sisters' husbands who treat them nice and take the leadership role in their house and it discourages me. Even though it's my own fault and the consequence of my own rebellion, I resent coming home to being treated like dirt. I loathe his toady buddy invading our house every weekend. I know he doesn't know any better, but I wish he could learn.

I appreciate your support and prayers.

[Rahab]

Dear Elysian...... I am reassured that you have been seeing a counselor. You are definitly recovering and taking major steps to healing. A big BRAVO to you.

What is extraordinary in your own process is that no matter which wrong choices you may have made, His Grace does utilize those choices to help you grow. He never gives up on us. It is good that you have been confronting your own issues and not lived in denial of them. You are a courageous Lady Elysian!

You remain in my thoughts and prayers. Veronique.

[BeHereNow]

Elysian,

Your situation hurts for me to read. I cannot bear to see people with such kindness trampled like that.

My first reaction was to suggest dumping him, but I've realized that he is also human. As Rahab said, he's drowning something with the beer (and weed? you mentioned stoned..), so he has pain also. Whether or not he shows it, or even knows it, I'd be willing to bet that he does appreciate you.

I'd caution against berating him for his gambling or smoking. "Nagging" is what it will seem like, which will likely inspire him to continue. If he knows your position on the issues, leave it at that. I would build on what Muzicman suggested, but add this - go out together. See if you can convince him to go out with you once or twice a week, and just do something fun with him. Don't tell him he can't drink, because then he won't want to go with you. But maybe join a bowling league, or visit a new restaurant once a week together.

In fact, you really don't need to go out. The key is "together". Maybe he likes a certain board game? Or perhaps you could offer to give him a massage once a week? But definitely try to do something that is interactive (not watching a movie or TV).

One more thing - if you see him cutting back on the beer or the gambling, praise him for it. For example, if he doesn't drink one night, tell him, "You know, it was so great spending time with you last night! I really enjoyed it." I realize it might sound like you're treating him as a 5-year-old, and grown men don't need to be showered with praise, etc., but what it does is cause him to positively associate his activity last night with your admiration. Rahab is right that men really do need their wife's admiration.

That's all the advice I can offer right now. Rahab has raised excellent questions about co-dependancy. While you do not want to appear "bitchy" at him, you also don't want to go out of your way to make his bad habits more comfortable (making you an enabler).

Praise: It's great that you've quit smoking and drinking; neither of those are easy to give up. I'm also moved by your loyalty to someone, despite how they make you feel (now, if he were abusing you, that would be different...).

Cheers.