The Tree of Life-WHAZZUP WITH THAT?

[Daywalker]

Hello, readers. I have a question for those of you that believe that the tree of life will indeed be around someday.

Revelation 21:4-5 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Okay, now, the above texts demonstrate that one day God will create the New Heaven and New Earth. When he does, why is it that during that reign the TREE OF LIFE is needed for the HEALING OF THE NATIONS? Keep in mind, the "curse" is already lifted...GOD has ALREADY made all THING NEW. Death and Pain is PASSED AWAY, etc. etc.

I have come up with various theories to explain this, but none that I am settled on.

THOUGHTS? Please keep in mind that I think that this WILL LITERALLY HAPPEN...PHYSICALLY.

Thanks!
-Mike

[dizzle]

Are you under the presupposition that literal must equal physical in such a wooden sense? If I say to you that it will be raining cats and dogs don't I literally mean that you had better get an umbrella? Would you be interpreting me correctly if you got a kennel?

[Daywalker]

Are you under the presupposition that literal must equal physical in such a wooden sense?
The fact remains that in THOSE TEXTS it IS literal and PHYSICAL. I think that it makes much better SENSE for God to spell it out for us in simplictic fashion than to have us ASSUME it to be something that it might not be. Otherwise, who is to say who is right or wrong?


If I say to you that it will be raining cats and dogs don't I literally mean that you had better get an umbrella? Would you be interpreting me correctly if you got a kennel?
God's wants us to PLAINLY understand his word. He does not desire to hide the truth from us. If I read Rev.21-22 I PLAINLY see that that MUST take place physically. Presuppositions are not even an issue-at least not from my standpoint.

[dizzle]

The fact remains that in THOSE TEXTS it IS literal and PHYSICAL. Nice ipse dixit. Caps don't make it any more so.



I think that it makes much better SENSE for God to spell it out for us in simplictic fashion than to have us ASSUME it to be something that it might not be. Otherwise, who is to say who is right or wrong? Circular and failed to deal with my point and analogy. I sure hope you are poking your eyes out the next time you see an attractive woman.



God's wants us to PLAINLY understand his word. Mormoms PLAINLY understand that the Father has a body and lives on a planet and literally begets children. Well then do you think God has a really big nose which blasted apart seas? Or feathers? It is the hyperliteralists who got in more trouble with Jesus than anyone else.



He does not desire to hide the truth from us. If I read Rev.21-22 I PLAINLY see that that MUST take place physically. Presuppositions are not even an issue-at least not from my standpoint. That would be funny if you were not serious. Your presuppositions are more glaring than the nakedness of the Emporer. Your whole post I am responding to one is one big presupposition. You assume that wooden literalness is key and then point to your assumption as proof. Nice circle. Just how BIG will that chain have to be that is binding satan in the pit.

[Daywalker]

Circular and failed to deal with my point and analogy. I sure hope you are poking your eyes out the next time you see an attractive woman.
DeeDee, say what you will. I never expect an opponent to admit their errors, so I can see no reason to make you the exception-especially when I use unrefutable, scriptural evidence.
Oh, brother...Let's try this...
If I tell you that my dog is taking a dump in your yard, you know exactly what I mean. IF, however, we used an already established expression that sounded just like that, you know that it might not be happening. Maybe the dog is just "tearing up your yard" or who knows what else. Guess what? Those verses listed are not FOUNDED on pre-established expressions or figures of speech. Therefore, by default, it should be taken as literal until proven otherwise. Only a Preterist trying to defend his or her doctrines would need to argue in such "circular reasoning". But I understand, Preterism is founded on allegorizing the Bible away, so to stay consistent that is just the way that it must continue.

Mormoms PLAINLY understand that the Father has a body and lives on a planet and literally begets children. Well then do you think God has a really big nose which blasted apart seas? Or feathers? It is the hyperliteralists who got in more trouble with Jesus than anyone else.
ohhhh no...don't try that one on me. So far, you have presented nothing that would show that I am a hyperliteralist. DeeDee, you are closer to being a full preterist than I am to being a hyperliteralist.

That would be funny if you were not serious. Your presuppositions are more glaring than the nakedness of the Emporer.
Just how many Emporers have you seen, DeeDee? :rofl: :eww:

Your whole post I am responding to one is one big presupposition. You assume that wooden literalness is key and then point to your assumption as proof. Nice circle. Just how BIG will that chain have to be that is binding satan in the pit.
Why do you ask, DeeDee?..fellow Preterist?

[kofh2u]

Hello, readers. I have a question for those of you that believe that the tree of life will indeed be around someday.

Revelation 21:4-5 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Okay, now, the above texts demonstrate that one day God will create the New Heaven and New Earth. When he does, why is it that during that reign the TREE OF LIFE is needed for the HEALING OF THE NATIONS? Keep in mind, the "curse" is already lifted...GOD has ALREADY made all THING NEW. Death and Pain is PASSED AWAY, etc. etc.

I have come up with various theories to explain this, but none that I am settled on.

THOUGHTS? Please keep in mind that I think that this WILL LITERALLY HAPPEN...PHYSICALLY.

Thanks!
-Mike


You are correct in seeing these things as concrete.

The answers you are looking for are within the texts, OT and NT. To see through the cloudy induendo and veiled meanings, necessarily the result of symbolic language and the multiplicity of technical devices in scripture, you MUST start with the correct pre-set psychological insight.

This is hard to do.

Before we read anything, it would be wonderful to know enough in advance that the meanings of what we are about to read would be easily assimilated. Right?

With scripture, so often, just those people who will prove unable to answer questions, such as those you pose in your post, they set our psychology. With the scriptures, most people read them as if they already sort of got "the idea." How? From those other people. They have been talking about what they thing they understand, ignoring to tell you in advance of the vast multiplicity of things they are debating with others.

As you evidence here, they do not have the (4) winds of understanting, the four "R's": realistic, rational, reasonable, ready answers.

With this said, let me assure you that the most current Bible translation presently available answers all your qurstions, those you point to in the last book, Revelation, in the last chapters, no less.

The snswers begins with what read concerning The Tree of Life mentioned in Genesis, the first book.

Consider that there actually is a "Tree of Life."

Biologically, we are mere vines on this Biological Tree of Life, a branch off the trunk, members of the twevlth Phylum, Chordata.

But, man has a genetic heritage.
That genetic resurrection of mankind, one generation, flowering after the next, is a physical resurrection of Modern Homo Sapiens. It is also accompanied by the operating instruction of the Unconscious Mind. That part of our mind remains unconscious during our lifetime. Yet, it controls heart beat, metabolism, etc. It is a storehouse, also, of genetic memory.

It remembers, in it's own way, all the way back... to creation. Consider that man has been maturing, developing, and GROWING... mentally, more and more conscious, slowly.

But, if you want more of my opinion, read this verse from Genesis, compare it with the archaic language of KJV.

If you like the Freudian Bible Interpretation, I have more which gets specific on Rev 22. Especially noting that there is no more "sea" of unconsciousness, and, in such an awakening of tge presently Unconscious Mind, in that facility of past memory, "Death, where is thy sting?"

Gen. 2:9 And out of this material chemistry, an immaterial mind made Father Nature, to grow every idea that is pleasant to the sight, and good for the food of thought; the Collective Unconscious also in the midst of this mind, and the sub-conscious Anima/animus, the source of knowledge of good and evil.

[Daywalker]

You are correct in seeing these things as concrete.

The answers you are looking for are within the texts, OT and NT. To see through the cloudy induendo and veiled meanings, necessarily the result of symbolic language and the multiplicity of technical devices in scripture, you MUST start with the correct pre-set psychological insight.

This is hard to do.

Before we read anything, it would be wonderful to know enough in advance that the meanings of what we are about to read would be easily assimilated. Right?

With scripture, so often, just those people who will prove unable to answer questions, such as those you pose in your post, they set our psychology. With the scriptures, most people read them as if they already sort of got "the idea." How? From those other people. They have been talking about what they thing they understand, ignoring to tell you in advance of the vast multiplicity of things they are debating with others.

As you evidence here, they do not have the (4) winds of understanting, the four "R's": realistic, rational, reasonable, ready answers.

With this said, let me assure you that the most current Bible translation presently available answers all your qurstions, those you point to in the last book, Revelation, in the last chapters, no less.

The snswers begins with what read concerning The Tree of Life mentioned in Genesis, the first book.

Consider that there actually is a "Tree of Life."

Biologically, we are mere vines on this Biological Tree of Life, a branch off the trunk, members of the twevlth Phylum, Chordata.

But, man has a genetic heritage.
That genetic resurrection of mankind, one generation, flowering after the next, is a physical resurrection of Modern Homo Sapiens. It is also accompanied by the operating instruction of the Unconscious Mind. That part of our mind remains unconscious during our lifetime. Yet, it controls heart beat, metabolism, etc. It is a storehouse, also, of genetic memory.

It remembers, in it's own way, all the way back... to creation. Consider that man has been maturing, developing, and GROWING... mentally, more and more conscious, slowly.

But, if you want more of my opinion, read this verse from Genesis, compare it with the archaic language of KJV.

If you like the Freudian Bible Interpretation, I have more which gets specific on Rev 22. Especially noting that there is no more "sea" of unconsciousness, and, in such an awakening of tge presently Unconscious Mind, in that facility of past memory, "Death, where is thy sting?"

Gen. 2:9 And out of this material chemistry, an immaterial mind made Father Nature, to grow every idea that is pleasant to the sight, and good for the food of thought; the Collective Unconscious also in the midst of this mind, and the sub-conscious Anima/animus, the source of knowledge of good and evil.
Thank you for taking the time to try to help. :smile:
Grace be with you,
Mike

[dizzle]

DeeDee, say what you will. I never expect an opponent to admit their errors, so I can see no reason to make you the exception-especially when I use unrefutable, scriptural evidence. Not to mention your irresistable humility.


Oh, brother...Let's try this...
If I tell you that my dog is taking a dump in your yard, you know exactly what I mean. IF, however, we used an already established expression that sounded just like that, you know that it might not be happening. Maybe the dog is just "tearing up your yard" or who knows what else. Guess what? That made no sense whatsover. And to someone from another culture it may not be so obvious. The Bible didn't drop out of the sky in this century.

Those verses listed are not FOUNDED on pre-established expressions or figures of speech. First, where is the time machine that you traveled back into the first century to prove that? Second, neither are the words "breathe of his nostrils." Neither are the words "gouge out your right eye". Neither are a lot of words. You are forgeting the genre of the book in question (apocolyptic literature) and a host of other factors.

Therefore, by default, it should be taken as literal until proven otherwise. And what verse is that? 3 Eisgesis 10:1?


Only a Preterist trying to defend his or her doctrines would need to argue in such "circular reasoning". But I understand, Preterism is founded on allegorizing the Bible away, so to stay consistent that is just the way that it must continue. The cheap shots are supposed to impress who exactly? I will leave off the various cheap shots I could take at X28 dispensationalism.


ohhhh no...don't try that one on me. So far, you have presented nothing that would show that I am a hyperliteralist. I quoted your own statements pressing the panic button. On the comment I omitted - if you goal is to "win" points at all costs then I have better things to do. I will overlook your shockingly bad taste this one time.


Just how many Emporers have you seen, DeeDee? :rofl: :eww:

I don't know any DeeDee. Were you speaking to me? And was this just cause you had to say something because it made no sense?


Why do you ask, DeeDee?..fellow Preterist? Assuming you are speaking to me,that again made no sense.

You may have the last word. This is not going anywhere. Perhaps one day I will participate in an open thread with you on literalism and related issues. I am certain you want this thread to continue on the specific subject of the opening post and our jousts are not encouraging that at that point. I hopefully will be seeing you on my article thread once I finish my rebuttal to NonTrin on my Alpha and Omega article.

On another note, if you are interested in doing a KJVO debate ever on Paltalk with Jaltus or know someone who is, get with me privately.

[Daywalker]

Not to mention your irresistable humility.

That made no sense whatsover. And to someone from another culture it may not be so obvious. The Bible didn't drop out of the sky in this century.

First, where is the time machine that you traveled back into the first century to prove that? Second, neither are the words "breathe of his nostrils." Neither are the words "gouge out your right eye". Neither are a lot of words. You are forgeting the genre of the book in question (apocolyptic literature) and a host of other factors.

And what verse is that? 3 Eisgesis 10:1?

The cheap shots are supposed to impress who exactly? I will leave off the various cheap shots I could take at X28 dispensationalism.

I quoted your own statements pressing the panic button. On the comment I omitted - if you goal is to "win" points at all costs then I have better things to do. I will overlook your shockingly bad taste this one time.



I don't know any DeeDee. Were you speaking to me? And was this just cause you had to say something because it made no sense?


Assuming you are speaking to me,that again made no sense.

You may have the last word. This is not going anywhere. Perhaps one day I will participate in an open thread with you on literalism and related issues. I am certain you want this thread to continue on the specific subject of the opening post and our jousts are not encouraging that at that point. I hopefully will be seeing you on my article thread once I finish my rebuttal to NonTrin on my Alpha and Omega article.

On another note, if you are interested in doing a KJVO debate ever on Paltalk with Jaltus or know someone who is, get with me privately.
Dear little amatuer warrior princess wanna-be:
By now you must realize that your "theological insight" and "impartation of knowledge" is entertainment only to mental midgets, such as yourself.

You have done, as I have suspected. It is a shame that you were not willing to bring forth the word of God, but then again-who needs a Bible in Preterism? And who knows? Maybe Jesus was only figurative too!

Take it to the locker room, Tyson. This has no place in debate.

-Mike

[dizzle]

Really nice there Mike. I hope you feel better about yourself now. :no:

[Amazing Rando]

So, WHAZZUP wit dat tree o life, yo? :b_woot:

[kofh2u]

Hello, readers. I have a question for those of you that believe that the tree of life will indeed be around someday.

Revelation 21:4-5 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Okay, now, the above texts demonstrate that one day God will create the New Heaven and New Earth. When he does, why is it that during that reign the TREE OF LIFE is needed for the HEALING OF THE NATIONS? Keep in mind, the "curse" is already lifted...GOD has ALREADY made all THING NEW. Death and Pain is PASSED AWAY, etc. etc.

I have come up with various theories to explain this, but none that I am settled on.

THOUGHTS? Please keep in mind that I think that this WILL LITERALLY HAPPEN...PHYSICALLY.

Thanks!
-Mike


You are correct in expecting to understand these things in concrete terms of ratioal thought. We must always remember that before Abraham all societies founded tgeir relgious precepts upon Animism. The use of imagination to explain things not understood, the invention of external spirit dimensions, the concepts of anthropomorphism, all, are Animistic and opposed to the Hebrew idea of Almighty.

The answers you are looking for are within the texts, OT and NT. To see through the cloudy induendo and veiled meanings, necessarily the result of symbolic language, and the multiplicity of technical literary devices in scripture, you MUST start with the correct pre-set psychological insight. Without this, the parables, analogies, metaphorical expressions, even the literal, and especially the symbolism will mislead to unbelievable ideas demanding the faith we are supposed to reserve for Jesus.

This is hard to do.

Before we read anything, it would be wonderful to know enough in advance such that the meanings of what we are about to read would be easily assimilated. Right?

With scripture, so often, just those people who will prove unable to answer questions, such as those you pose here, they are the ones who pre- set our psychology.

With the scriptures, most people read them as if they already sort of got "the idea." How? From those other people, of course. They have been talking about what they thing they understand, ignoring to tell you in advance of the vast multiplicity of things they, themselves, are debating with others. Proof enough that they have no real clue at all.

As you evidence here, they do not have the (4) winds of understanting, the four "R's": realistic, rational, reasonable, ready answers.

With this said, let me assure you that the most current Bible translation presently available answers all your qurstions, in particular, those you point to in Revelation, in the last chapters, no less.

The answers begins with what we read concerning The Tree of Life mentioned in Genesis, the first book. In this, the first will be last and tge last book, we discuss now, first. Strange.

Consider that there actually is a "Tree of Life."

Biologically, we are merely vines on this Biological Tree of Life, a branch off the trunk, members of the twelveth Phylum, Chordata.

But, man has a genetic heritage.
The genetic recreation of man, born from the womb, one generation, after the next, is a physical resurrection of Modern Homo Sapiens.

This physical flowering from the gentic vine of our ancestors is also accompanied by the brain which can think pretty well even at birth. This mind that comes eith the body is the operating instructions of the Unconscious Mind. That part of our mind, the Unconscious, remains unconscious during our lifetime. Yet, it controls heart beat, metabolism, etc. It is a storehouse, also, of genetic memory. We call this instinct, but it is way more.

It remembers, all the way back... to earliest creation, because the same genes are being reused again and again to produce each subsequent generation, right?.
Consider that man has been maturing, developing, and GROWING... mentally, more and more conscious, slowly. Dying. Genetically reformed from the same human chromosomes... 22, one for each letter in the Hebrew Alphabet,... plus the sex chromosome, a 23rd which proclaims tge coming of the son of man in the Y-chrosome.

But, if you do not want more of my opinion, read this verse from Genesis, compare it with the archaic language of KJV.

If you like the Freudian Bible Interpretation, I have more which gets specific on Rev 22. Especially note that there is no more "sea."

This clues us to expect the end of Unconsciousness. We shall be changed. Our vast storehouse of remembrances will awaken!

In such an awakening of the presently Unconscious Mind, in that facility of past memory, "Death, where is thy sting?"

Gen. 2:9 And out of this material chemistry, an immaterial mind made Father Nature, to grow every idea that is pleasant to the sight, and good for the food of thought; the Collective Unconscious, also in the midst of this mind, as is the sub-conscious Anima/animus, the source of knowledge of good and evil.

[Daywalker]

So, WHAZZUP wit dat tree o life, yo? :b_woot:
LOL.

Oh, and Dee Dee, the same could be said to you for what you posted. By the way, our discussions are done. Hey, I asked people to come on this thing to answer a sincere question that I had and you "Ms. TF" was to practice your hobby of Futurist Trouncing.
You will get no apology from me. Sometimes I do apologize, but I will not do so in this case.

[dizzle]

Well sorry to hear that but I am not too proud to apologize if I offended you or was inappropriate. If I did, I aplogize, and if I was, I apologize. Even I in actuality was not (for only I know my intents you do not) but you took it that way, an apology is in order. However, I did not criticize your person but your doctrine. You insulted my person on multiple levels and disrespected the forum by breaking the rules in doing so.

[kofh2u]

Hello, readers. I have a question for those of you that believe that the tree of life will indeed be around someday.

Revelation 21:4-5 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Okay, now, the above texts demonstrate that one day God will create the New Heaven and New Earth. When he does, why is it that during that reign the TREE OF LIFE is needed for the HEALING OF THE NATIONS? Keep in mind, the "curse" is already lifted...GOD has ALREADY made all THING NEW. Death and Pain is PASSED AWAY, etc. etc.

I have come up with various theories to explain this, but none that I am settled on.

THOUGHTS? Please keep in mind that I think that this WILL LITERALLY HAPPEN...PHYSICALLY.

Thanks!
-Mike

You say:I have come up with various theories to explain this, but none that I am settled on.

I like that you are coming uo with ideas!

Here is one to consider from the Freudian Bible Interpretation:


Revelation 21:4-5 And the awakened Unconscious Mind shall control tears from their eyes; and in genetic memories of prior existences there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, as experienced in the phenomena of hypnosis: for the former kind of life experience are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all human experience new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of conscious awareness, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the Homoiousian Brain and of the Homoiousian Mind. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river of thoughts, was there the Left and the Right Hemispheres, which bore the twelve Cortex Functional Areas for thinking, and Homoiousian births multiplied every month: and the Cortex Functions of thinking within the Homoiousian brain were for the solving the problems of the nations. And there shall be no more Unconsciousness: but the Homoiousian Brain and of the Homoiousian Mind shall be in it; and his once subconscious archetypes shall serve the totally conscious mind:

[Daywalker]

You say:I have come up with various theories to explain this, but none that I am settled on.

I like that you are coming uo with ideas!

Here is one to consider from the Freudian Bible Interpretation:


Revelation 21:4-5 And the awakened Unconscious Mind shall control tears from their eyes; and in genetic memories of prior existences there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, as experienced in the phenomena of hypnosis: for the former kind of life experience are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all human experience new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Revelation 22:1-3 And he shewed me a pure river of conscious awareness, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the Homoiousian Brain and of the Homoiousian Mind. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river of thoughts, was there the Left and the Right Hemispheres, which bore the twelve Cortex Functional Areas for thinking, and Homoiousian births multiplied every month: and the Cortex Functions of thinking within the Homoiousian brain were for the solving the problems of the nations. And there shall be no more Unconsciousness: but the Homoiousian Brain and of the Homoiousian Mind shall be in it; and his once subconscious archetypes shall serve the totally conscious mind:
Thanks for your input.
Grace,
Mike