A Question For Young Earth Creationists Only, Please

[$cirisme]

I will preface this by saying that I'm neither OEC nor YEC, at least not with how either word is typically understood. I have a hard time thinking the earth is Billions and Billions of years old, but I think that 6,000 is far too short as well.

This question I want to pose to YECs... and I'm not looking for a debate at all, just your candid opinion, is what kind of a Biblical timeline are we looking at?

Okay, earth is created in 6 days. We read of people living hundreds and hundreds of years(which in itself seems to make everything hard to squeeze in in a 6000 year period) and floods and the exodus, etc.

How do we squeeze Methusalah's lifespan in with the flood with Israel's captivity, with everything else, including what is seen in history?

I want as clear an answer as possible... and let's try to keep this thread in a good natured and non-debate mood please.

[trueseeker]

I will preface this by saying that I'm neither OEC nor YEC, at least not with how either word is typically understood. I have a hard time thinking the earth is Billions and Billions of years old, but I think that 6,000 is far too short as well.

This question I want to pose to YECs... and I'm not looking for a debate at all, just your candid opinion, is what kind of a Biblical timeline are we looking at?

Okay, earth is created in 6 days. We read of people living hundreds and hundreds of years(which in itself seems to make everything hard to squeeze in in a 6000 year period) and floods and the exodus, etc.

How do we squeeze Methusalah's lifespan in with the flood with Israel's captivity, with everything else, including what is seen in history?

I want as clear an answer as possible... and let's try to keep this thread in a good natured and non-debate mood please.


Cirisme,

I was going to try and post a time line I put together, just by lineages, kings reigns etc., but it was way to wide for the page. If you would like it, PM me, I would be happy to email it to you. It actually isn't all that hard to do, it only takes about half a day if you know where to look, to get you from Creation to the Babylonian captivity of Israel. And it is kind of a fun project.

Methusalah from the timelines appears to have died the year before or the same year as the flood, approximately 1,660 years after creation.

[Socrates]

This question I want to pose to YECs... and I'm not looking for a debate at all, just your candid opinion, is what kind of a Biblical timeline are we looking at?
One formed by a straightforward chronology as given in Genesis 5 and 11. You've certainly got it right -- billions of years invariably comes from imposing outside ideas upon the Bible.

I've already argued why there can be no gaps (not even the bogus extra Cainan (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?p=470423&#post47042)), and asked anyone here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17466&page=3&pp=16) who disagrees to tell me where they are from the text. The great scholar Archbishop Ussher handled the rest, e.g. The forgotten archbishop (http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i2/archbishop.asp) and In the days of Peleg (http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v22/i1/peleg.asp)

Okay, earth is created in 6 days. We read of people living hundreds and hundreds of years(which in itself seems to make everything hard to squeeze in in a 6000 year period)
Not at all. There are only 10 names in Genesis 5 and 9 in Genesis 11 (meaning there was not 10-10 parallelism and thus selectivity, despite common claims to the contrary), and the ages of the father at the birth of the next in line are not that high. But the fact of these ages show that there is a clear time gap between A & B even if you claim that there were people in between.

Also, see Living for 900 years? (http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/years.asp) about why lifespans dropped, and Meeting the ancestors (http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/ancestors.asp) which is an interesting observation that Abraham had almost first hand evidence for the events recorded in Genesis -- Shem could have told him directly about the Flood, and he could have learned about the Fall from his grandfather Methuselah who learned directly from Adam.

and floods and the exodus, etc.
Why? There is plenty of time between Abraham and Exodus--the lifespans are lower.

How do we squeeze Methusalah's lifespan in with the flood with Israel's captivity, with everything else, including what is seen in history?
Methuselah died in the year of the Flood, according to the Masoretic chronology but not the faulty LXX (see Some Remarks Preliminary to a Biblical Chronology (http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/tjv12n1_chronology.asp)), where the most accepted MSS have him surviving the Flood. His name means "when he dies, it shall be sent."

I want as clear an answer as possible... and let's try to keep this thread in a good natured and non-debate mood please.
I'm always good natured.

[A Beautiful Truth]

I'm always good natured.

:glare:

[$cirisme]

I'm always good natured.
:nc:

Trueseeker,

Check your PMs. Thanks! :smile:

[dizzle]

The thread starter has expressed a wish to have a nondebate type of conversation so let's please discuss the issues from our perspective without slamming the others. Charleen unless you are now YEC, you should not be posting in this thread.

[Socrates]

I'm always good natured.
:nc:
Ah, but you did comment once that I was "one of our best posters" :bounce:

Anyways, this chart (from Meeting the ancestors (http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/ancestors.asp)) might help further with your question. Then (from The forgotten archbishop (http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i2/archbishop.asp) , since Abraham entered Canaan at age 75 in 2056 AM (year of the world):

From when Abraham left Haran to enter Canaan and Egypt until the Exodus, exactly 430 years to the day (Genesis 12:10, Exodus 12:40, Galatians 3:17). 2513
Exodus to start of Temple, 479 years (1 Kings 6:1, in the 480th year or after 479 years). 2992
Start of Temple to division of the Kingdom, 37 years (Solomon reigned 40 years, 1 Kings 11:42, temple started in his 4th year). 3029
Division of the Kingdom to destruction of Jerusalem, 388 whole years, plus part of two years (Ezekiel 4:4–6). 3417
Kingdom fell in 588 BC
Hence date of creation = 588 + 3417 - 1 = 4004 BC
This gives a rough idea of how Ussher did his calculations.

[$cirisme]

Trying to prove my statement wrong again? :smile:

Take it to the locker room, I'm not interested in this.

[Socrates]

"Thanx for the helpful on-topic information, Soc!" -- that's what you really meant wasn't it (justifying your earlier comment)? :bounce:

[dizzle]

Let's keep the thread on topic please and take personal issues to the Locker Room if absolutely necessary to state and if topics already stated to be dealt with by PM to the owners and admins is not part.

[kuboes1831]

See how YECs love one another.

I take the traditional orthodox evangelical and fundamentalist view on origins.

[$cirisme]

See how YECs love one another.
Unless you clarify, I presume this means you're not a YEC? If not, please refrain from posting as I requested in the op.

Thank you.

[dtyler]

This question I want to pose to YECs... and I'm not looking for a debate at all, just your candid opinion, is what kind of a Biblical timeline are we looking at?
"Biblical" is the key word. Clocks based on any other foundation can be used to argue for all sorts of timescales. Further, if God has revealed anything about timescales, we need to apply our minds to understanding and receiving this truth.
Okay, earth is created in 6 days. We read of people living hundreds and hundreds of years(which in itself seems to make everything hard to squeeze in in a 6000 year period) and floods and the exodus, etc.
How do we squeeze Methusalah's lifespan in with the flood with Israel's captivity, with everything else, including what is seen in history?
I think this has been answered for the Antediluvian period. The long lifetimes of these patriarchs can be understood coherently - with Methusalah dying in the year of the Flood. Things are different for the post-Diluvian period - and this is where YECs differ.

Some argue for a tight chronology, with no gaps in the record. Others think that there is sufficient in the text for us to conclude that the period from the Flood to Abraham was much longer than the "no-gaps" interpretion would require. One of the good sections of Whitcomb and Morris' book on "The Genesis Flood" was to survey this issue and draw some sensible conclusions.

If YECs do not follow the "no-gaps" chronology, how much time do they suggest. You will be aware that many describe the YEC position as "the earth is less than 10,000 years old" - and this indicates an upper limit IMO. My personal view is that a period of about 2,000 years between the Flood and Abraham is compatible with the biblical requirement for Genesis 11 to be a meaningful record of ancestry and descent.

I hope this helps.

[Jorge]

I will preface this by saying that I'm neither OEC nor YEC, at least not with how either word is typically understood. I have a hard time thinking the earth is Billions and Billions of years old, but I think that 6,000 is far too short as well.

This question I want to pose to YECs... and I'm not looking for a debate at all, just your candid opinion, is what kind of a Biblical timeline are we looking at?The Biblical timeline is clearly spelled out in the Scriptures and this is where we (YECs) get the (close to) 6,000-year date. I'd really like to know what kind of time frame you have in mind and -- let's say it's 200,000 years -- how and with what you would defend that time frame. What I mean is that you don't accept 'billions and billions' nor do you accept 6,000 and so what number did you have in mind?

You had indicated that you did not want a debate and I'm not looking to start one but you need to consider deeply what your present position implies to the Christian view. IOW, in the spirit of I Peter 3:15, if asked by a non-believer what would you answer and how would you defend it?

Jorge

[Lion]

I'm a YEC. That said, I can allow for some variation in Geneaology, mostly since there are obvious gaps in some father-son relationships, but not terribly many. The problem becomes somewhat less complex when we realize there are king lists and contemporary history of kingdoms since 700 BC

The problem is complicated when we try to correlate the history of Egypt There are questions about the history of Egypt and I won't touch that.

I would allow for 7,500 years, not much more. The problem arises when someone tries to bring in the supposed age of fossils. It is my opinion that there is a lot of false information the geological world. I can't accuse them of lying, but I think there are some assumptions not based on good data. I do not believe the geological ages stuff, and some things we have to accept on faith. Is the Bible the word of god? If it is, believe it.