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Dee Dee Warren
March 28th 2004, 12:05 AM
BALANCE IN THE CHURCH

By Bill Cosner A.K.A. “Bill the Cat”


During my years in the church, I have grown from casual attendee, to disciple, to disciple maker. Lately, I, as well as several other well-respected Christians, have noticed an unbalance in their respective churches. There seems to be a tremendously unfair unbalance between outreach and inreach. While exploring and studying this issue even further, I have found that it seems to be a common problem across the world. This inspired me to write an article. With the help of a few of my friends on TWeb, I have gathered some interesting observations and ideas. Before I get started, let me take a moment to thank immensely my fellow T-Webbers for their input and direction. But most of all, I thank God for directing the flow of ideas in me and these other men of God.


How to Run a Successful Empire

I know it already sounds strange, but let me elaborate. What better way to compare the success or failure of today’s church than to compare it to the greatest earthly empire of all time – the Roman Empire? Research and discussion has led me to what I believe are 5 main areas for gauging a successful empire. They are Expansion, Supplies and Funds, Fortification, Longevity, and last, but most important, Leadership. As we all know, at the height of it’s power, Rome had each of these qualities in spades. It would not be known as the greatest empire of all time if it did not display all of these qualities. However, lack of these same qualities was the cause of Rome’s downfall.


The Rise and Fall of Rome

The Roman Empire didn’t start out as the global power that it became. They started conquering land close to them. But “the Romans were not content with conquering land near to them. They realized that land further away might also have riches in them that would make Rome even wealthier. Hence their drive to conquer Western Europe. At the height of its power, around AD 150, Rome controlled the greatest empire ever seen in Europe at that time. Many of the conquered nations benefited from Roman rule as the Roman way of life was imposed on those conquered societies. Ironically, the sheer size of the empire, which many marveled at, was also a major reason for the collapse in the power of the Romans. The Romans had great difficulty in maintaining power in all of the empire and supplying their army was a major problem as their lines of communication were stretched to the limit. The power of the empire rested with the success of the Roman Army [conquering enemy territory]. When this success started to weaken, the empire could only start to collapse.” 1


Expansion

The Roman Empire could not survive and thrive in the presence of Carthage and other threats without extending its borders at the expense of their enemies. The Roman troops won because they were disciplined and because they fought as a single unit. The Roman front line needed not only training, but also each other in order to survive. But nothing can survive without growth. The Church must conquer enemy territory. That means bringing the Good News to the lost. Jesus came to seek and save the lost (Luk. 19:10). We have parables of the lost sheep (Luk. 15:3-7), the lost coin (Luk. 15:8-10) and the Prodigal Son (Luk 15:11-32) to bear witness to that. We must evangelize. It’s not an option. Evangelism is crucial to our survival as a church. Just as Rome, we must have a well-equipped army to spread the Good News. However, we seem to be doing this almost too abundantly right now. Sidewalk Sunday School is a weekly occurrence for some churches. “Servant Evangelism” – although a good concept – has come to replace the mission of the church itself. It must, like all successful empires, be balanced with other factors. Most important of all, we must not expend all our effort conquering enemy territory for fear that we will become solely dependant on evangelism as Rome was on its army.


Supplies and Funds

One of the downfalls of the Roman Empire was that it was stretched too thin for the available resources. It would take days to get supplies across the empire. Thanks to UPS and the like, we no longer have that problem. Yet, we are still challenged with the lack of supplies and funds for our churches. As the old adage goes: “Nothing in life is free.” As Rome expanded, more armies were needed, and thus more money to pay them. As time went on, money and resource became hard to come by, and expansion became more and more difficult. We as a church must equip our “armies” with the supplies they need. We also must have the funds available to get these things done. However, not all of our resources need to go to conquering new territory. While bringing in new converts is important, we are obligated to provide the resources to lead, teach and disciple them. We must also continue to lead, teach, and disciple those already within our territory. Rome made the critical mistake of getting overextended. “In 565 Justinian died in his early eighties. Though his accomplishments were great, he left the Empire overextended and in the seventh century much of the Empire is over run.” 2 We as a church must not make that same mistake, or our fate will be Rome’s.


Fortification

Part of Roman survival was their fortification of Rome and their existing territory. For Rome, they did not expend all their armies at the battlefront. Armies were left in Rome to reinforce, or fortify, the interior from sneak attack. We as the church must invest resources on what we already have – leading the leadership, discipling the leadership, FORTIFYING the leadership. We as a church must do more to build the house instead of just laying thousands of foundations with no one equipped to continue the job.

But what of the Great Commission? “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and son and the Holy Spirit”. 3 As my friend Owen says: “it seems to me that most churches, even most Christians use the “Great Commission” verse as a command to evangelize, spread the good news, lead others to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Which is great (I guess that is why we call it the “Great” Commission)”. 4 But, is it possible to focus too much on evangelism? I believe it is, especially when it is pop evangelism and is done at the expense of discipleship. If we really take a hard look at the text, we find that it does not say just to make “converts”, it says to make “disciples.” The Greek verb “to disciple” means to teach, instruct. It is a lifelong growing process, one in which we never fully mature – at least until our faith is made sight.

“Unfortunately, the trend in the church today seems to lean toward “quick fix” salvation. By that I mean getting them saved and then moving on to the next lost soul, without taking the time to properly disciple them. This “quick fix salvation plan”, in most cases, produces one of two unacceptable situations. First, we get a new believer who is ill equipped to grow into a useful and productive member of the body of Christ or to develop any level depth in their relationship with Christ. Second, and worst, we get a person who is still lost, but believes that they are saved” 5. We must preach and teach how to conform to His image – therefore making disciples! My friend, Tony says it like this: “If the Word is not being ministered: if the preaching is centered around seeker services, rather than feeding the sheep; if it’s milk, not meat; if it’s pep talk, not ‘Christ and Him crucified’, then there will be little forming. We will have churches full of spiritual infants, and carnal adults. A convert is for now; a disciple is for life.” 6

Discipleship is reinforcing what we already have – or fortifying our Rome. Discipling is what the Lord commanded as primary. The going and baptizing are also necessary, but secondary. In the Greek text, the occurrence of “disciple” in Matthew 28:19, is not a noun but a verb. The word disciple in the Great Commission is an action, not a person! Therefore, those who are more mature in the faith are called to disciple others. Without fortification, the Church will be ill equipped to withstand attacks from the enemy. How many churches do you know of where the enemy came dressed in sheep’s clothing and devoured it to the core because it was spiritually ill equipped and the members were not fortified with the tools necessary to identify and defeat the adversary?


Longevity

The Roman Empire existed for a long time because of their constant training of new recruits. They were never satisfied that they were good enough. More recruits were brought in and then trained. New techniques were taught, and pride in being in the Roman Army was instilled. Soldiers were constantly training. The same is needed in the Church today. We also need to be constant in training all of the Body of Christ, not just the new converts. “Discipleship is a life long activity, not something we put a new recruit through so that they can fit into whatever role the church needs [like Sunday School teacher, Nursery worker, or front door greeter]. 7 “Discipleship is the changing of self, indeed the denial of self, the turning from self unto God, the calling on the Name of the Lord in all things. 8 If we do not diligently seek to disciple others and ourselves, how can we conform to the mind of Christ and continue the Church long after we are gone? How can the next generation be properly and doctrinally prepared when all they know is how to share their testimony?


Leadership

Rome was infamous for their military leaders and emperors (Julius Caesar, Nero, Titus, etc.). When their leadership failed, Rome suffered and eventually fell. Leadership, as with Rome, will make or break a local church body. We as a Church must train up effective leaders. But as with Rome, unqualified, untrained, undisciplined, or just plain bad leaders will ruin a local church body every time. “We have in I Corinthians, a clear example of undisciplined disciples (pun intended). Here, Paul constantly applies the doctrine of the cross to their situation, since they thought they were all grown up, and in fact they were selfish babies, crowing about their liberty and freedom, about what they can do, what they know, and what the Spirit does through them. And Paul says, “You are just like the world, you are children, immature, carnal. See me? See my sufferings? My privations? My foolishness? My glorying in the Cross? My labours? Imitate that. That is the pattern for you to follow.” 9 He invests a good part of the book of First Timothy to instructing on good leadership. He also did not just make converts and leave, but he would stay in place for some time and appoint leadership and then follow up on that leadership (note the letters to Timothy and Titus along with Philemon). Paul was an excellent model of a Church leader; the Corinthian leaders were not. Paul knew that the imitation and knowledge of Christ was the pattern to follow. We must strive to have good leaders that pattern themselves after Christ now in order to train up new leaders for the future. One of the keys to fixing this problem of ill-equipped leaders is to have discipleship as the main focus in our church services. The once a week feel good, “love ‘em into the Kingdom God fix” is not enough. Local small group studies led by competent leaders are also necessary. New convert classes can also benefit both new believer and leader. We can learn about the needs of the lost through those new in the faith instead of knocking on door after door asking if we can rake their leaves. We need to follow the examples of Jesus and wear out the pages of the scriptures instead of wearing out our garden tools.


Conclusion

In conclusion, I have discovered that churches that solely focus on evangelism (expansion) and making new converts are falling into the same traps as Rome did. More converts does not mean a healthy empire, or church. We must provide resources to all areas in order to be successful. We must make disciples, not believers. We must reproduce Christians whose sole focus is to immerse themselves in Christ and speak as Jeremiah did when he said: “But if I say, "I will not remember Him or speak anymore in His name," then in my heart it becomes like a burning fire shut up in my bones; and I am weary of holding it in, and I cannot endure it.” 10 If the local church body properly balances these qualities for success, then evangelism will be a natural and inevitable byproduct.



Endnotes

1.Article on the Roman Empire courtesy of http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/roman_empire.htm

2. http://www.chainmailstore.com/mw/Assets/2001Garb/November01.pdf

3. Matthew 28:19, NASB

4. Faramir of TheologyWeb

5. Faramir, ibid

6. Solly of TheologyWeb

7. Solly, ibid

8. George Blaisdell of TheologyWeb

9. Solly, ibid

10. Jer 20:9, NASB


300

[b]Notice - The featuring of a particular member article does not constitute endorsement of every single item or point of view contained therein by each and every member of TheologyWeb leadership. We strive to have a varied cross-section of representations of differing opinions on secondary Christian issues. The only requirement for the featuring of a particular article is that said article must not contradict the essentials articulated in the TheologyWeb statement of faith found here in our Mission Statement (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/mission/)or be blatantly offensive to the Christian worldview of the site Owners.

jabberwocky
March 28th 2004, 07:20 PM
I find this article curious in that it addresses the same balance issue that's of late at issue in my local church, but emphasising the need for the half of the balance that we've got in abundance - we've got great teaching and discipleship and so on, but are working hard trying to better reach out to our community and friends.

If I had written this article, I would have written it the other way around: it's important for us to build each other up in the faith we have, but I'd emphasise that the "armies" are the key - and they are (your article agrees) absolutely critical to success.

Is the western Church in general good enough at evangelism? From my perspective, not so.

Furthermore, I'd put it to you, dear reader, that when we step out and share our faith, that's when it's most stretched and grown; that's been my experience, anyway.

cbro
March 28th 2004, 10:39 PM
I believe that the kind of leadership it has will be why it is called an empire or a kingdom, and why it keeps those five sections in balance enought for it to grow to the level of a kingdom or empire, as well as why it continues for however long it does so.
I also believe that it is only by God's Grace that people get Godly leaders instead of leaders like themselves.So our getting Godly leaders starts with our individual 'inreach' resulting in our agreeing with God on what kind of leaders we need and what we need to do to get them. We then are like an addict wanting help in overcoming the addiction. Instead of help to continue the good feelings with not worring about the bad results continuing to happen. Such as the person in my signature addicted to being correct.

Solly
March 29th 2004, 03:31 AM
I'm a footnote... :teeth:

Faramir
March 29th 2004, 05:19 PM
I'm a footnote... :teeth:
:grin: I know :grin:

Me too. :thumb:

cbro
March 29th 2004, 09:30 PM
I don't know what it means to be a footnote

Dee Dee Warren
March 31st 2004, 11:20 PM
I am quite disappointed that I am not a footnote. First I get left off Minn's List and now this.

cbro
April 1st 2004, 09:53 PM
I don't want to seem dumb, but if I knew what means to be a footnote, I would know if I was one or not.

Bill the Cat
April 2nd 2004, 06:28 PM
I find this article curious in that it addresses the same balance issue that's of late at issue in my local church, but emphasising the need for the half of the balance that we've got in abundance - we've got great teaching and discipleship and so on, but are working hard trying to better reach out to our community and friends.

As a church body, your church seems to be doing things that a majority of the churches are skipping. congratulate your Pastor and teachers. As personal Christians who are properly discipled, your church's members should realize the importance of sharing their faith every opportuniy they get. That to me is proper evangelism. It is at a personal level while teaching and discipleship are at a local body level.


If I had written this article, I would have written it the other way around: it's important for us to build each other up in the faith we have, but I'd emphasise that the "armies" are the key - and they are (your article agrees) absolutely critical to success.


It must be properly balanced though. We can't be "all army" or "all teachers"


Is the western Church in general good enough at evangelism? From my perspective, not so.


mine either. the evangelism is too "quick fix" centered. Proper evangelism is birthed out of a discipleship focus, not a "save 'em and move on" attitude.


Furthermore, I'd put it to you, dear reader, that when we step out and share our faith, that's when it's most stretched and grown; that's been my experience, anyway.

true statement. thank you for sharing with us!!

Bill the Cat
April 2nd 2004, 06:29 PM
footnotes are quotes from someone used in an article and noted at the end as to who they came from.

P.S. Sorry Dee Dee.... :nsm:

rossum
April 3rd 2004, 07:57 PM
the greatest earthly empire of all time - the Roman Empire
<pedantic>I suspect that the Chinese Empire has this title, mainly on the grounds of longevity.</pedantic>


Rome controlled the greatest empire ever seen in Europe at that time
That I can agree with.

rossum

fototune
April 4th 2004, 01:56 AM
:ahem: To get a more complete picture of Rome's empire, in a single volume, besides the obvious "Rise & Fall," by Gibbons, is Donald R. Dudley's book, "The Civilization of Rome." To compare the church to the Roman empire is logical. "The Second Century saw the development of a universal organization (the Catholic Church) based upon the structural system which then existed, within the Roman government's political stystem." To this day the Roman Catholic church still uses the same Greek word, Diocese, to define the jurisdiction of a Bishop, as Rome did to define an administrative division, for a procurator, or governor. However, I don't think that this is something to emulate, and I think that it has always been the downfall of the church.



BALANCE IN THE CHURCH

By Bill Cosner A.K.A. “Bill the Cat”


During my years in the church, I have grown from casual attendee, to disciple, to disciple maker. Lately, I, as well as several other well-respected Christians, have noticed an unbalance in their respective churches. There seems to be a tremendously unfair unbalance between outreach and inreach. While exploring and studying this issue even further, I have found that it seems to be a common problem across the world. This inspired me to write an article. With the help of a few of my friends on TWeb, I have gathered some interesting observations and ideas. Before I get started, let me take a moment to thank immensely my fellow T-Webbers for their input and direction. But most of all, I thank God for directing the flow of ideas in me and these other men of God.


How to Run a Successful Empire

I know it already sounds strange, but let me elaborate. What better way to compare the success or failure of today’s church than to compare it to the greatest earthly empire of all time – the Roman Empire? Research and discussion has led me to what I believe are 5 main areas for gauging a successful empire. They are Expansion, Supplies and Funds, Fortification, Longevity, and last, but most important, Leadership. As we all know, at the height of it’s power, Rome had each of these qualities in spades. It would not be known as the greatest empire of all time if it did not display all of these qualities. However, lack of these same qualities was the cause of Rome’s downfall.


The Rise and Fall of Rome

The Roman Empire didn’t start out as the global power that it became. They started conquering land close to them. But “the Romans were not content with conquering land near to them. They realized that land further away might also have riches in them that would make Rome even wealthier. Hence their drive to conquer Western Europe. At the height of its power, around AD 150, Rome controlled the greatest empire ever seen in Europe at that time. Many of the conquered nations benefited from Roman rule as the Roman way of life was imposed on those conquered societies. Ironically, the sheer size of the empire, which many marveled at, was also a major reason for the collapse in the power of the Romans. The Romans had great difficulty in maintaining power in all of the empire and supplying their army was a major problem as their lines of communication were stretched to the limit. The power of the empire rested with the success of the Roman Army [conquering enemy territory]. When this success started to weaken, the empire could only start to collapse.” 1


Expansion

The Roman Empire could not survive and thrive in the presence of Carthage and other threats without extending its borders at the expense of their enemies. The Roman troops won because they were disciplined and because they fought as a single unit. The Roman front line needed not only training, but also each other in order to survive. But nothing can survive without growth. The Church must conquer enemy territory. That means bringing the Good News to the lost. Jesus came to seek and save the lost (Luk. 19:10). We have parables of the lost sheep (Luk. 15:3-7), the lost coin (Luk. 15:8-10) and the Prodigal Son (Luk 15:11-32) to bear witness to that. We must evangelize. It’s not an option. Evangelism is crucial to our survival as a church. Just as Rome, we must have a well-equipped army to spread the Good News. However, we seem to be doing this almost too abundantly right now. Sidewalk Sunday School is a weekly occurrence for some churches. “Servant Evangelism” – although a good concept – has come to replace the mission of the church itself. It must, like all successful empires, be balanced with other factors. Most important of all, we must not expend all our effort conquering enemy territory for fear that we will become solely dependant on evangelism as Rome was on its army.


Supplies and Funds

One of the downfalls of the Roman Empire was that it was stretched too thin for the available resources. It would take days to get supplies across the empire. Thanks to UPS and the like, we no longer have that problem. Yet, we are still challenged with the lack of supplies and funds for our churches. As the old adage goes: “Nothing in life is free.” As Rome expanded, more armies were needed, and thus more money to pay them. As time went on, money and resource became hard to come by, and expansion became more and more difficult. We as a church must equip our “armies” with the supplies they need. We also must have the funds available to get these things done. However, not all of our resources need to go to conquering new territory. While bringing in new converts is important, we are obligated to provide the resources to lead, teach and disciple them. We must also continue to lead, teach, and disciple those already within our territory. Rome made the critical mistake of getting overextended. “In 565 Justinian died in his early eighties. Though his accomplishments were great, he left the Empire overextended and in the seventh century much of the Empire is over run.” 2 We as a church must not make that same mistake, or our fate will be Rome’s.


Fortification

Part of Roman survival was their fortification of Rome and their existing territory. For Rome, they did not expend all their armies at the battlefront. Armies were left in Rome to reinforce, or fortify, the interior from sneak attack. We as the church must invest resources on what we already have – leading the leadership, discipling the leadership, FORTIFYING the leadership. We as a church must do more to build the house instead of just laying thousands of foundations with no one equipped to continue the job.

But what of the Great Commission? “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and son and the Holy Spirit”. 3 As my friend Owen says: “it seems to me that most churches, even most Christians use the “Great Commission” verse as a command to evangelize, spread the good news, lead others to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Which is great (I guess that is why we call it the “Great” Commission)”. 4 But, is it possible to focus too much on evangelism? I believe it is, especially when it is pop evangelism and is done at the expense of discipleship. If we really take a hard look at the text, we find that it does not say just to make “converts”, it says to make “disciples.” The Greek verb “to disciple” means to teach, instruct. It is a lifelong growing process, one in which we never fully mature – at least until our faith is made sight.

“Unfortunately, the trend in the church today seems to lean toward “quick fix” salvation. By that I mean getting them saved and then moving on to the next lost soul, without taking the time to properly disciple them. This “quick fix salvation plan”, in most cases, produces one of two unacceptable situations. First, we get a new believer who is ill equipped to grow into a useful and productive member of the body of Christ or to develop any level depth in their relationship with Christ. Second, and worst, we get a person who is still lost, but believes that they are saved” 5. We must preach and teach how to conform to His image – therefore making disciples! My friend, Tony says it like this: “If the Word is not being ministered: if the preaching is centered around seeker services, rather than feeding the sheep; if it’s milk, not meat; if it’s pep talk, not ‘Christ and Him crucified’, then there will be little forming. We will have churches full of spiritual infants, and carnal adults. A convert is for now; a disciple is for life.” 6

Discipleship is reinforcing what we already have – or fortifying our Rome. Discipling is what the Lord commanded as primary. The going and baptizing are also necessary, but secondary. In the Greek text, the occurrence of “disciple” in Matthew 28:19, is not a noun but a verb. The word disciple in the Great Commission is an action, not a person! Therefore, those who are more mature in the faith are called to disciple others. Without fortification, the Church will be ill equipped to withstand attacks from the enemy. How many churches do you know of where the enemy came dressed in sheep’s clothing and devoured it to the core because it was spiritually ill equipped and the members were not fortified with the tools necessary to identify and defeat the adversary?


Longevity

The Roman Empire existed for a long time because of their constant training of new recruits. They were never satisfied that they were good enough. More recruits were brought in and then trained. New techniques were taught, and pride in being in the Roman Army was instilled. Soldiers were constantly training. The same is needed in the Church today. We also need to be constant in training all of the Body of Christ, not just the new converts. “Discipleship is a life long activity, not something we put a new recruit through so that they can fit into whatever role the church needs [like Sunday School teacher, Nursery worker, or front door greeter]. 7 “Discipleship is the changing of self, indeed the denial of self, the turning from self unto God, the calling on the Name of the Lord in all things. 8 If we do not diligently seek to disciple others and ourselves, how can we conform to the mind of Christ and continue the Church long after we are gone? How can the next generation be properly and doctrinally prepared when all they know is how to share their testimony?


Leadership

Rome was infamous for their military leaders and emperors (Julius Caesar, Nero, Titus, etc.). When their leadership failed, Rome suffered and eventually fell. Leadership, as with Rome, will make or break a local church body. We as a Church must train up effective leaders. But as with Rome, unqualified, untrained, undisciplined, or just plain bad leaders will ruin a local church body every time. “We have in I Corinthians, a clear example of undisciplined disciples (pun intended). Here, Paul constantly applies the doctrine of the cross to their situation, since they thought they were all grown up, and in fact they were selfish babies, crowing about their liberty and freedom, about what they can do, what they know, and what the Spirit does through them. And Paul says, “You are just like the world, you are children, immature, carnal. See me? See my sufferings? My privations? My foolishness? My glorying in the Cross? My labours? Imitate that. That is the pattern for you to follow.” 9 He invests a good part of the book of First Timothy to instructing on good leadership. He also did not just make converts and leave, but he would stay in place for some time and appoint leadership and then follow up on that leadership (note the letters to Timothy and Titus along with Philemon). Paul was an excellent model of a Church leader; the Corinthian leaders were not. Paul knew that the imitation and knowledge of Christ was the pattern to follow. We must strive to have good leaders that pattern themselves after Christ now in order to train up new leaders for the future. One of the keys to fixing this problem of ill-equipped leaders is to have discipleship as the main focus in our church services. The once a week feel good, “love ‘em into the Kingdom God fix” is not enough. Local small group studies led by competent leaders are also necessary. New convert classes can also benefit both new believer and leader. We can learn about the needs of the lost through those new in the faith instead of knocking on door after door asking if we can rake their leaves. We need to follow the examples of Jesus and wear out the pages of the scriptures instead of wearing out our garden tools.


Conclusion

In conclusion, I have discovered that churches that solely focus on evangelism (expansion) and making new converts are falling into the same traps as Rome did. More converts does not mean a healthy empire, or church. We must provide resources to all areas in order to be successful. We must make disciples, not believers. We must reproduce Christians whose sole focus is to immerse themselves in Christ and speak as Jeremiah did when he said: “But if I say, "I will not remember Him or speak anymore in His name," then in my heart it becomes like a burning fire shut up in my bones; and I am weary of holding it in, and I cannot endure it.” 10 If the local church body properly balances these qualities for success, then evangelism will be a natural and inevitable byproduct.



Endnotes

1.Article on the Roman Empire courtesy of http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/roman_empire.htm

2. http://www.chainmailstore.com/mw/Assets/2001Garb/November01.pdf

3. Matthew 28:19, NASB

4. Faramir of TheologyWeb

5. Faramir, ibid

6. Solly of TheologyWeb

7. Solly, ibid

8. George Blaisdell of TheologyWeb

9. Solly, ibid

10. Jer 20:9, NASB


300

[b]Notice - The featuring of a particular member article does not constitute endorsement of every single item or point of view contained therein by each and every member of TheologyWeb leadership. We strive to have a varied cross-section of representations of differing opinions on secondary Christian issues. The only requirement for the featuring of a particular article is that said article must not contradict the essentials articulated in the TheologyWeb statement of faith found here in our Mission Statement (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/mission/)or be blatantly offensive to the Christian worldview of the site Owners.

jabberwocky
April 15th 2004, 09:19 PM
As a church body, your church seems to be doing things that a majority of the churches are skipping. congratulate your Pastor and teachers. As personal Christians who are properly discipled, your church's members should realize the importance of sharing their faith every opportuniy they get. That to me is proper evangelism. It is at a personal level while teaching and discipleship are at a local body level
...
It must be properly balanced though. We can't be "all army" or "all teachers"
...
the evangelism is too "quick fix" centered. Proper evangelism is birthed out of a discipleship focus, not a "save 'em and move on" attitude.
Evangelism: individual or collective?

I don't completely agree that "proper evangelism" is only at a personal level. The body level can be effective at impacting local communities in terms of social justice and even simple community development. This kind of activity is important to demonstrate to those outside the church what our God is like, and (hence) what our purpose and desire is. As the church body is such a key part of an individual's faith (mine at least), it's very important to me when I relate my faith to others personally that I'm involved in a group who are collectively involved in loving and evangelistic ministries.

Likewise, personal discipleship (aka mentoring) is, I think, a valuable and important part of discipleship.

Balance, but not separation

It's helpful, but the concept of "balance" may also be slightly misleading and unhelpful, as fototune intimates. There are different ways of working, people with different gifts, but one God and, really, one purpose. As you say, if we were all "army" or all teachers, we'd be deficient. And discipleship is a key part of an evangelism strategy. But I think it's just as true that evangelism is a key part of discipleship.

cbro
April 19th 2004, 07:38 PM
The Ultimate Truth is that there is no Ultimate Truth including the Ultimate Truth that it is not Ultimate.

HerodionRomulus
April 23rd 2004, 04:28 PM
Good article Bill but......
one other element is needed for the church to have balance and that is service and social ministry as well as ignoring issues of justice.
You know, feed the hungry, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, support the weak and marginalized---the helpless the hopeless and the hapless. Matt. 25:31ff.

Too many churches are insular, focused only on it's own members and potential members and ignoring those in need.

Big Ed
April 23rd 2004, 11:38 PM
A very intresting article. Which i agree with much. I think there is much of a "alamo" attitude out. Of churchs seeing themsleve be assault by the culture. staying in our bastions, rather then reaching the lost.

I also agree that our agenda should be not just quick fix evalegism but true dispicleship. which means evanlegism can't be our only focus.

There are two things that are very important, butr were not covered.

The first is Love. Christ said "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." john 13:35

At times this this love seems very much lacking in the church at large. I think to often we are more worried about being right then loving one another.

Another important element is prayer. We need to pray for the lost as well as pray for one another.