Strange Mormon practice

[truthman]

I have been an evangelist for years and have shared the gospel with many Mormons. I know quite a bit bout their faith and practice. But recently, I saw something that puzzled me.

I was sitting at the coffee shop in town and looking outside when two Mormon missionaries were getting in their car. The driver got in while the passenger went to the back of the car and waved him on, as if to say "You're clear back here, it's safe to back out of the parking space". This reminded me of the time a few years ago in another town, when I saw two other Mormon missionaries do the same thing.

Is anyone here aware of this practice, and is it only for safety reasons, or are there spiritual implications as well.

truthman

[Bill the Cat]

From what I know of the missionaries, they are not paid directly by the church and therefore don't have a great deal of money. They have to be extra careful not to get into any fender benders, because their insurance would go up and since they are representing an organization, the LDS church can be held liable.

Rare that they drive though. Usually, they bike.

[truthman]

Out here in the country, you gotta drive. Everything's a long way away.

For me it's a 20 minute drive just for a gallon of milk.

truthman

[Trout]

The LDS missionaries are required to back up their vehicles in a certain manner, one standing behind the vehicle, and one operating the vehicle. Since the LDS church is self-insured the "back up" rule is one way for the church to avoid un-necessary liability and litigation.

(A co-worker of mine recently returned from a mission)

My friend said that the back up rule while embarrassing, actually has cut down on the frequency of accidents caused by blindly backing over things, including people.

[Jade]

I was sitting at the coffee shop in town and looking outside when two Mormon missionaries were getting in their car.
You mean they actually parked within view of a coffes shop!? :shocked: Perhaps you should have invited them in to share a cup with you. :wink:

[truthman]

I had a Mormon friend who went with the original proclamation that they were not supposed to drink hot beverages. That proclamation, he claimed, later got skewed into meaning no caffeinated drinks. Since many hot drinks are caffeinated, the two subjects blended.

So, my friend woult often join me at the coffee shop for Iced Chai.

truthman

[Jade]

I had a Mormon friend who went with the original proclamation that they were not supposed to drink hot beverages. That proclamation, he claimed, later got skewed into meaning no caffeinated drinks. Since many hot drinks are caffeinated, the two subjects blended.

So, my friend woult often join me at the coffee shop for Iced Chai.

truthman
tsk tsk tsk :ahem:

[Jin-Roh]

Well, if you ever don't want to deal with Mormon Missionaries, I guess a coffee shop is a good place.
The caffience thing in itself is some strange dogma.

[NSMinistries]

and yet they used to own quite a bit of Pesi cola stock didn't they?

[Trout]

Caffeine isn't the no no, it's the tantic acid contained in beverages such as coffee and tea that the LDS are told to avoid.

[Ric]

I had a Mormon friend who went with the original proclamation that they were not supposed to drink hot beverages. That proclamation, he claimed, later got skewed into meaning no caffeinated drinks. Since many hot drinks are caffeinated, the two subjects blended.

So, my friend woult often join me at the coffee shop for Iced Chai.

truthman
Don't tell your friend that Iced Chai (or any Chai) has caffeine!

[Ric]

Caffeine isn't the no no, it's the tantic acid contained in beverages such as coffee and tea that the LDS are told to avoid.
Chai is the Indian (Hindi) word for tea.

[{Tim}]

Well, if you ever don't want to deal with Mormon Missionaries, I guess a coffee shop is a good place.
The caffience thing in itself is some strange dogma.
Strange how? I personally avoid caffeine (especially large doses) because I don't like the effect it has on me. It seems to me this could be a valid reason for proclaiming this as a "word of wisdom" (though not as obvious as avoiding alcohol IMO).
But I actually think that these should be things left to the individual believers to decide.

Caffeine isn't the no no, it's the tantic acid contained in beverages such as coffee and tea that the LDS are told to avoid.
Where did you hear this? It's certainly new to me, I don't think I've even heard of tantic acid before. Why should it be avoided?


{Tim}

[decoski]

I was parking my car to go into the grocery store when I noticed three Mormon missionaries loading groceries into the car in front of mine. I noticed one of them taking a 12-pack of Mt. Dew out of the cart. I chuckled to myself and nearly asked them why they were going to drink caffeinated beverages.

[just Johnna]

Where did you hear this? It's certainly new to me, I don't think I've even heard of tantic acid before. Why should it be avoided?


It's tannic acid, you guys. You can google up the pros and cons.

The LDS observe the Word of Wisdom because it's revealed advice and counsel that we voted onto ourselves in the 1930s. Explanations or justifications from science (and economics) are fun, but secondary.

Your mountain-dew drinking missionaries may have offended those who are zealous for the law, but they've not prevented themselves from serving in any calling. There are some things left for individual believers to decide among the mormons, too.

just Johnna

[Xmansmommy]

Your mountain-dew drinking missionaries may have offended those who are zealous for the law, but they've not prevented themselves from serving in any calling. There are some things left for individual believers to decide among the mormons, too.

just Johnna

Interesting you say that Johnna, because it is an issue when trying to get a temple recommend. Sure individuals are able to decide for themselves, at the expense of obtaining their recommend in some cases, yes?

[just Johnna]

Your mountain-dew drinking missionaries may have offended those who are zealous for the law, but they've not prevented themselves from serving in any calling. There are some things left for individual believers to decide among the mormons, too. Interesting you say that Johnna, because it is an issue when trying to get a temple recommend. Sure individuals are able to decide for themselves, at the expense of obtaining their recommend in some cases, yes?
Perhaps I assumed too much familiarity with LDS practices in my remark. Since the 1930s, a person getting a temple recommend affirms he does not use tobocco, coffee, tea, alcohol, or illegal/recreational drugs. That's one of about ten questions in the interview. Belief in God is the first. Mountain Dew appears no where.

Where I'm coming from, we seek to keep the Word of Wisdom in its proportionate place. It's too easy to overextend rules to oneself (!) or to others (!!!). In fact, we might say it's natural, which would be the opposite of what you might call "regenerate." I can without reservation recommend the Word of Wisdom practice, fwiw. I'm not better than smokers and drinkers, let alone consumers of Pepsi. My small experience with family members with drug addiction is that it can be overwhelming to negotiate and I very obviously need the Lord to sustain my faith and patience and grant wisdom so I can be of any use. Superority doesn't turn out to be of any use.

Something in the thead doesn't fit together, to crow about missionaries with mountain dew, while mocking how legalistic we seem to you guys.


Johnna
=======================
"The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the Fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the Atonement of Christ the Lord"

[Xmansmommy]

Perhaps I assumed too much familiarity with LDS practices in my remark. Since the 1930s, a person getting a temple recommend affirms he does not use tobocco, coffee, tea, alcohol, or illegal/recreational drugs. That's one of about ten questions in the interview. Belief in God is the first. Mountain Dew appears no where.

Correct. But we do know it is highly frowned upon to drink any caffinated beverage. And oftentimes members give in to the pressure. The fact is however, that those things you listed aren't technically up to the individual to decide, unless they are willing to jeopradize their temple recommend. One of my best friends in the Mormon church couldn't get a recommend b/c she struggled with drinking coffee.

Where I'm coming from, we seek to keep the Word of Wisdom in its proportionate place. It's too easy to overextend rules to oneself (!) or to others (!!!). In fact, we might say it's natural, which would be the opposite of what you might call "regenerate." I can without reservation recommend the Word of Wisdom practice, fwiw. I'm not better than smokers and drinkers, let alone consumers of Pepsi. My small experience with family members with drug addiction is that it can be overwhelming to negotiate and I very obviously need the Lord to sustain my faith and patience and grant wisdom so I can be of any use. Superority doesn't turn out to be of any use.

Something in the thead doesn't fit together, to crow about missionaries with mountain dew, while mocking how legalistic we seem to you guys.


Johnna
=======================
"The natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the Fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the Atonement of Christ the Lord"

I wasn't personally mocking nor crowing. I was asking about the practices since I know how things were done here, I considered they were done the same everywhere regarding the WOW. I didn't want to assume and I wanted to know, so I asked.

[just Johnna]

Correct. But we do know it is highly frowned upon to drink any caffinated beverage. And oftentimes members give in to the pressure.I think social pressure does vary by locale, and insularity. I always have been an independent person, so I probably underestimate social pressure. I also wonder to what extent this will turn out to be a pendulum thing, socially.
The fact is however, that those things you listed aren't technically up to the individual to decide, unless they are willing to jeopradize their temple recommend. One of my best friends in the Mormon church couldn't get a recommend b/c she struggled with drinking coffee.

....I was asking about the practices since I know how things were done here, I considered they were done the same everywhere regarding the WOW. I didn't want to assume and I wanted to know, so I asked.
I think temple recommend standards are consistent throughout the world these days, which is nice. Thirty years ago, some well-meaning bishop told my friend she had to make her kids take naps so she could get a break in her day, or he wouldn't give her her recommend. It's all well and good that he so wanted to underline she should value herself and give her needs priority, which she totally needed to hear, but the benevolent dictatorship methodology is fraught with problems, and practically guaranteed to destructively backfire.

So yes, drinking coffee and the checklist items, would prevent one from entering the temple. I think it goes along with the idea that we are walking temples.

Aren't there behaviors in the wider Christian world that keep one from being a pastor, or are subject to social pressure? Some Christian communities seem to have lists which are longer than ours. I think there's a whole variety of tools communities use for dealing with a fallen world, many of which are only approximate to the task.

I wasn't personally mocking nor crowing.Xmansmommy, do you even know how to mock or crow? :ahem: It would be extremely uncharacteristic of you to do so.

Johnna

[Xmansmommy]

I think social pressure does vary by locale, and insularity. I always have been an independent person, so I probably underestimate social pressure. I also wonder to what extent this will turn out to be a pendulum thing, socially.

I suppose I wouldn't think too much of it if it were any regular old social pressure. But it is religious social pressure taken too far that I have issues with.

I think temple recommend standards are consistent throughout the world these days, which is nice. Thirty years ago, some well-meaning bishop told my friend she had to make her kids take naps so she could get a break in her day, or he wouldn't give her her recommend.

OUCH! :doh:

It's all well and good that he so wanted to underline she should value herself and give her needs priority, which she totally needed to hear, but the benevolent dictatorship methodology is fraught with problems, and practically guaranteed to destructively backfire.

In some areas perhaps it is necessary but certainly not when it comes to getting a break during the afternoon. :lol:

So yes, drinking coffee and the checklist items, would prevent one from entering the temple. I think it goes along with the idea that we are walking temples.

That we are!

Aren't there behaviors in the wider Christian world that keep one from being a pastor, or are subject to social pressure? Some Christian communities seem to have lists which are longer than ours. I think there's a whole variety of tools communities use for dealing with a fallen world, many of which are only approximate to the task.

Sure there are. Paul makes a pretty thorough list, no doubt. If the list is a manmade list, I see it no different than another form of legalism, whether it comes from a Christian community or not. But that's just me.

Xmansmommy, do you even know how to mock or crow? :ahem: It would be extremely uncharacteristic of you to do so.

Johnna

If you only knew! :grin: But I must admit, I have no clue what crowing is. :blush:

[Krusader]

Johanna, while passing through New Mexico, Mormons made tea of a local bush, which is not called the Mormon tea bush. It contains substances (ephedra) which are a lot more dangerous than caffein, which in some instances is beneficial.

[Krusader]

sorry, change "not called" to "now called."

[just Johnna]

Johanna, while passing through New Mexico, Mormons made tea of a local bush, [which is called] the Mormon tea bush. It contains substances (ephedra) which are a lot more dangerous than caffein, which in some instances is beneficial.

Hey Crusader,

Among my friends we used to joke if the Word of Wisdom were a total and complete dietary guide, it would prohibit packaged snack cakes and other such things which lead to diabetes.

"Mormon tea" seems to have been the allergy medicine of its day; there's definitely pseudoephedrine in it. It grows in Southern Utah too. Personally, I'm thankful for safe and regulated modern pharmacies that stock Sudafed instead, or any of the newer classes of allergy medicines.

I think the dangerous diet drug craze over ephedra was done on the chinese cousin, ma hong or something like that. I hadn't heard the mormon tea bush held the same dangers--I had hoped someday to taste the stuff for the sake of historical nostalgia. I hear it's bitter.

You never know what's in herbal infusions, really. The pregnancy books warn to be careful and limit yourself to a cup a day at most. Of course, pregnancy books are pretty much on the paranoid side of health.

just Johnna
survivor of the "Best Odds" diet.

[Trout]

Johanna, while passing through New Mexico, Mormons made tea of a local bush, which is not called the Mormon tea bush. It contains substances (ephedra) which are a lot more dangerous than caffein, which in some instances is beneficial.

We always called it "Brigham Tea", we'd bring home part of the bush and my mother would brew it up for us. As a kid I thought it tasted great, but I tried some recently and found it to be pretty nasty.

Maybe mom sugared it up

[PopGoesTheCola]

From what I know of the missionaries, they are not paid directly by the church and therefore don't have a great deal of money. They have to be extra careful not to get into any fender benders, because their insurance would go up and since they are representing an organization, the LDS church can be held liable.

Rare that they drive though. Usually, they bike.

There is a missionary house nearby us, and I have always wondered why they ride bikes. Thanks for the information!

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