Help! re Nero Caesar and 666 ... is there an Aramaic scholar out there in T World?

[calvin]

Preterism is commonly held by the Roman Catholic Church to deflect prophecy that points to the papacy as being the numbered beast (Historicism) ... pointing to Rome and Nero instead.

The preterist takes a form of Nero's name and adds an "n" resulting in Neron Caesar, next the Latin is transliterated into Aramaic (some on tbis site say Hebrew) resulting in "Nrwn Qsr" ... which when using the numeric eauivalents of the letters sum at 666 if the "nun final" is counted as 50 rather then its normal "final" equivalent of 700.

Question: Is "Nrwn Qsr" Aramaic or Hebrew? ... and, is it true that the letter values of Aramaic differ from those of Hebrew? A site I found (and lost) showed them as being quite different values. thank you

He has risen!

[Stephen]

Hm. I'm a preterist and have never heard of that. Then again, I'm not exactly an eschatology buff.

[John Reece]

Although I have read the Aramaic sections in the Hebrew Bible (which are written via the Hebrew alphabet), I do not pretend to be an Aramaic scholar.

However . . .

Question: Is "Nrwn Qsr" Aramaic or Hebrew? ... and, is it true that the letter values of Aramaic differ from those of Hebrew?

It's the same in Hebrew and Aramaic, when the Aramaic is present in the form of the Hebrew alphabet, as in the documentation quoted below.

From Before Jerusalem Fell (pages 198-199), by Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr. [Note: the Hebrew letters and the equivalent numbers are reverse to the presentation in Gentry's book, because, for some reason beyond my imagination, the Hebrew reverse order programming hooks the numbers and the "=" sign into an order reverse that in which I have written them]:

As a great many scholars have come to conclude with a satisfying degree of confidence, the name which fits the circumstances most admirably is that of the nefarious Nero Caesar. And as noted just above, it would not be the first time Nero was the subject of a cryptogram. Earlier we noted a riddle based on the Greek spelling of his name. Here we must realize the name “Nero Caesar,” if spelled according to a Hebrew spelling (John and most first century Christians were of Hebrew extraction), gives us precisely the value 666. Hebrew or Aramaic spelling of “Nero Caesar” (although not the most common one), was “Nrwn Qsr,” which can be enumerated as follows:

n = 50

R = 200

W = 6

n = 50

Q = 100

S = 60

R = 200

thus:

nRWn QSR=666

According to Stuart, Professor Benary of Berlin noted long ago that in the Talmud and other Rabbinical writings Nero was spelled thus. In fact, “the secret [i.e., the Neronic identity of the referent 666] has been almost simultaneously rediscovered of late years by Fritzsche in Halle, by Benary in Berlin, by Reuss in Strasbourg, and by Hitzig in Heidelberg.” Although it is true “Caesar” was often spelled in Rabbinic literature with an additional letter, Hort notes that there is “excellent authority” for the precise spelling required. The same observation was made by Jastrow and Ewald. Indeed, even were there no such evidence, Swete observes that today hard archaeological documentary evidence for just such a spelling of Nero’s name has been found in a Murabba’at document of the Qumran community.

It may now be pointed out that in an Aramaic document from Murabba’at . . . dated to the “second year of the emperor Nero,” the name is spelled nRWN QSR as required by the theory [i.e., that 666 signifies Nero]. The last two consonants of QSR are damaged, but enough is preserved to show that no vowel-letter was written between the Q and the S.

[dizzle]

Thank John I am saving that!

[calvin]

Stephen, check out www.historicism.com this is an excellent site
sincerely calvin the one you love to hate!

[dizzle]

Joe the owner of historicism.com is a member here.

[Stephen]

I'll take a wild guess, is that the one who's name is Historicism.com?

[dizzle]

Funny how that works isn't it.

[Ted]

It should be noted that in the example from the second year of Nero, the transliteration uses a final nun, not a nun. The value of finalnun is 700, completely invalidating the idea that nrn qsr equates to 666.

Further, gematria is part of neoPlatonic qabalism (similar to gnostic numerology), which didn't become active in Hebrew culture for some time later. Thus, when John wrote in Greek to a Greek-speaking audience, it is clear that the number of the beast is a Greek issue. Of course, to mega therion does have a gematria value of 666. John was rubbing their noses in their supposed knowledge.

[Jude3b]

According to Hislop, Nero Caesar when written in Hebrew letters, equals 666.

Unlike the Greeks and Hebrews, the Romans did not use all letters of their alphabet for numbers. They only used six letters: D,C,L,X,V and I:
D=500, C=100,L=50,X=10,V=5,I=1 = 666

[studyhound]

It should be noted that in the example from the second year of Nero, the transliteration uses a final nun, not a nun. The value of final nun is 700, completely invalidating the idea that nrn qsr equates to 666.




Funny Ted every Gematria site I found on the web gave nun a value of 50 and only one gave it a value 700 but that is on the modern style of nun.



For example

Nun Is The Fourteenth Letter Of the Aleph Bet {Hebrew Alphabet}

The Nun means to shine, to flourish, to sprout, to spread, to be established[/size]

This study is dedicated in the loving memory of Mr. Arnold Student Litman, may he rest in peace.

Gematria value = 50
Gematria value of word Nun = 106
Gematria Mispar Godal of the Word Nun = 756

The direction of the Nun is center extroverted. In other words the direction is flowing out from the center letter to the exterior letters. Even when one considers the Mispar Godal of the second Nun it is still center extroverted.



So it seems that 666=Nero still has some validity.



:studyhound:

[calvin]

I wouldn't hang your hat on that point!

[studyhound]

I wouldn't hang your hat on that point!
I don't. :teeth:

I have other points aside from the 666 point that I (collectively) hang my hat on. :wink:

:studyhound:

[Just The Facts]

Hi

First Daniel is Clear Beasts are kingdoms NOT MEN.

Revelation is written in Greek and just like Latin every letter has a numerical value.

Spell out the Greek name for the Kingdom add up the value of each letter and you will get 666.

The 1st century Greeks did not call Rome, Rome, nor did they call the Roman citizens Romans, but rather the Greek term for Rome or a person from Rome, or the Legendary Founder of Rome (Romulus) was Lateinos. When a Greek in the first century was referring to Rome or its armies or its citizens they would say those Lateinos. It is quite common in Greek literature of the 1st century AD.

So for the Greeks of the 1st century AD. The Roman Empire was the Lateinos Empire.

L(Lambda) = 30, A(Alpha) = 1, T(Tau) = 300, E(Epsilon) = 5, I(Iota) = 10, N(Nu) =50, O(Omicron) = 70, S(Sigma) = 200. Total 666.