Dee Dee Warren
March 28th 2003, 06:23 AM
Okay this thread is for commentary on the debate between Scepticbud and JPHolding on alleged contradictions between John and the Synoptics located here:
Bottles are prohibited, face paint is encouraged.
Please note that debate participants are not permitted to post in the comments thread for their particular debates until such debate is over. At that time, they are free to post and address any spectator commentary that they choose.
April 14th 2003, 03:12 AM
Bother! Lost my original post when I timed out! Oh well, here goes for reconstructing it.
JPHolding states that Origen (Horumes/Child of Horus) could not be a native of the Middle East given that his father's name was Leonidas. I find this difficult to accept for the following reasons:
1) They were Alexandrians, and as such likely to have Greek influenced names
1a) As far as I can tell, his emphases are characteristically Egyptian.
2) Many of the names in the Oxyrhyncus papyri are Greek
3) St Anthony (pAgios Antonius) was a native of the Fayyum, with a Roman name
4) St. Serapion was a native of Antioch (2nd century bishop of Antioch) with an Egyptian name
5) Mara bar Serapion was an Aramean (from Samosata?) whose father and son shared the same Egyptian name
Regarding 'ma besay-il', do we have any evidence for it in the writings of Gregory Abu'l Faraj bar Hebraeus? What about the account of Rabban Sawma and Rabban Marqos?
I believe we will find it in Targum Jonathan, but wonder about Targum Onkelos. (Not having either, I must rely on general impressions)
What non-Biblical documents from the period exhibit this approach?
Note, Holding could have refuted the reference to Origen and Celsus by stating that 'ma besay-il' was characteristic of those from Aramaic-speaking areas, as both Origen and Celsus were apparently Egyptian, but I am not sure that he wants to so limit it, nor am I aware that there is any evidence for the attitude being found primarily in Levantine areas.
Interestingly, the Antiocheans were more interested in the historical reading of the Scriptures, while the Alexandrians were more interested in the alegorical reading.
Dee Dee Warren
April 19th 2003, 12:25 AM
Now that the debate is over, the participants are free to post in this commentary thread.
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