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Dee Dee Warren
April 27th 2004, 09:51 PM
CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH (http://www.jamesrobison.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID236518%7CCHID438620%7CCIID1016124,00.html)

EFFECTIVE EVANGELISM: Witnessing to the Nation of Islam

by Jerry L. Buckner

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan called for the Million Man March to take place in Washington, D.C., on October 16, 1995, and black men across America responded. The response was so enthusiastic that not even the march on Washington by the late Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., surpassed the crowds that Farrakhan was able to bring together. Why was the Million Man March so effective? Many saw it as a way the black community could stand together. Moreover, it encouraged black males to stand up and be men in their homes and communities.

The official membership of the Nation of Islam has been estimated to be between 19,000 and 30,000. Others have said they have 60,000 across America. Whatever the case, they have far more influence than their numbers would indicate, as the Million Man March demonstrated.

The Nation of Islam represents a serious threat to the Christian community. The growing presence of the Nation of Islam and their attacks on essential Christian doctrines make it difficult to continue ignoring them. The black church must awake to the challenge. There have been two problems the black church has faced in rising to this challenge: (1) the lack of evangelism in fulfilling its role to the community and (2) the lack of biblical discipleship for church members.

Meanwhile, members of the Nation of Islam have proven themselves to be highly motivated and successful in their outreach efforts in the community. Not only are they encouraging young black males to join the Nation of Islam, but they are also recruiting them from our churches. In addition, they have a strong presence in the jails and prisons. This was how Malcolm X and Mike Tyson were recruited. They are out in the community and on the streets training young black males in their peculiar version of Islam. Should we be afraid of the Islamic threat? No, but we should embrace this opportunity to sharpen our beliefs and strengthen our witness.


BASIC BELIEFS

Many African-Americans, including some Christians, regard the Nation of Islam as a Christian organization that is a positive motivating factor in the black community. A review of their basic beliefs, however, will demonstrate that the Nation of Islam is one of the fastest-growing American cults.

The whole basis of the beliefs or theology of the Nation of Islam is an attempt to answer two major questions: (1) "Who are we as a people?" and (2) "What is sin?" The Nation of Islam denies the essentials of the historic Christian faith. The following list of beliefs includes excerpts from the Nation of Islam?s own writings.

Polytheism. The Nation of Islam is a polytheistic religion. Several references in their literature point to a belief in many gods, and there is reference to a council of 24 scientist-gods who write history. One of them acts as God, while the others do the work of getting the future together for the Nation. Black men are themselves referred to as being gods. "You [the black man] are walking around looking for a God to bow to and worship. You are the God!"Elijah Muhammad, Our Savior Has Arrived (Newport News, VA: United Brothers Communications, n.d.), 35.

The Gods Are Not Eternal. According to the Nation of Islam, although the spirit of Allah (God) lives on, the gods are not eternal. "We all know that there was a God in the beginning that created all these things and do know that He does not exist today."Elijah Muhammad, Message to the Blackman in America (Philadelphia: House of Knowledge Publications, 1965), 9.

God Is a Man. They teach that Allah "came to us from the Holy City of Mecca, Arabia, in 1930. He used the name of Wallace D. fard."Elijah Muhammad, The Supreme Wisdom, vol. 1 (Newport News, VA.: The National Newport News and Commentator, 1957), 11. "God is a man and we just cannot make Him other than man, lest we make Him an inferior one; for man?s intelligence has no equal in other than man."Muhammad, Message, 6.

"Yakub Myth." A basic teaching in their belief system is the "Yakub myth." Yakub was one of the council of 24 black scientist-gods. He rebelled against Allah and the council, causing havoc. He created the white race as a race of devils to strike back at the black race. Elijah Muhammad said that black people are not sinners, but that the white man is at fault for their problems.

The Trinity. The Nation of Islam denies the Trinity. "The Christians refer to God as a 'Mystery' and a 'Spirit' and divide Him into thirds. One part they call the Father, another part the Son, and the third part they call the Holy Ghost ? which makes the three, one. This is contrary to both nature and mathematics. The law of mathematics will not allow us to put three into one."Muhammad, Message, 1.[/fotnote] "Making the Son and the Holy Ghost the equal with the Father is absolutely sinful."Muhammad, Our Savior, 152.

Deity of Christ. The Nation of Islam rejects the essential Christian doctrine that Jesus is both God and man. Jesus "did not consider himself to be God or a son of God or equal of Him....Jesus was only a man and prophet of Allah."Elijah Muhammad, The Supreme Wisdom, vol 2 (Hampton, VA: U.B. & U.S. Communications, n.d.), 80. In a four-hour videotape of Louis Farrakhan's 1994 Easter Service, "The Crucifixion of Jesus: The Imprisonment of Minister Farrakhan," Farrakhan discusses the crucifixion and relates it to himself, saying, "I am hanging on the cross right now. I?m on Calvary right now and the more I suffer, the more our people are raised to consciousness....you don?t have to look for Jesus. I represent him. I was born to die for you and I love the thought of dying for you."Videotape of 3 April 1994 Easter message by Louis Farrakhan delivered at Mosque Maryam, Chicago, Illinois, entitled, "The Crucifixion of Jesus: The Imprisonment of Minister Farrakhan."

The Holy Spirit.The Nation of Islam denies that the Holy Spirit is God. They view the Spirit as a "spook."

The so-called Negroes think of God in terms of something without form (spirit or spook) and they believe that His throne is somewhere in the sky....The teachings of Christianity have put God out of Man into nothing (spirit). Can you imagine God without form but yet interested in our affairs who are the human beings? What glory would an immaterial God get out of a material world? We also learn that a spirit is not self-independent; it is dependent upon air, water and food. Without it, the spirit can have no life. So how can a spirit be God?Muhammad, Supreme Wisdom, vol. 2, 9-10.

The Bible. Although they do make use of it when it does not contradict their own teachings, the Nation of Islam believes the Bible has been tampered with by the white man. "The Bible is now being called the Poison Book by God Himself, and who can deny that it is not poison?...the Book can't be recognized as the pure and Holy Word of God."Muhammad, Message, 94.

Atonement and Salvation. The Nation of Islam rejects the essential Christian doctrines of atonement and salvation. "We know we have a Savior. In 1877 a Savior was born ....A Savior is born, not to save the Jews but to save the poor Negro....A Savior has come to save you from sin, not because you are by nature a sinner but because you have followed a sinner."[footnote]Ibid., 237.

[b]The Human Race. As we've seen, the Nation of Islam teaches a racist doctrine that the black race is divine and righteous by nature. They were the creators of the universe, and they are taught they are black gods.

Heaven and Hell. Members of the Nation of Islam do not believe in the hereafter, whether it be heaven or hell. "I have no alternative than to tell you that there is not any life beyond the grave. There is no justice in the sweet bye and bye. Immortality is NOW, HERE."Ibid., 19. To the Nation of Islam, heaven and hell are regarded as special conditions here on earth now, not as special places to go after death. "The Christians say, 'Confess the Lord Jesus Christ or you (who are other than the
Christians) will burn in hell forever.' That hell must not be so hot that one can burn in it forever and never burn up."Muhammad, [i]Supreme Wisdom, vol. 2, 42.

The Nation of Islam teaches other anti-Christian doctrines besides those that have been cited above. But the examples we have considered are certainly among the most significant and should be sufficient to acquaint you with their theology.


WITNESSING TO THE NATION OF ISLAM

African-American Christians and white Christians have different responsibilities in witnessing to the Nation of Islam. Much can be learned from the Nation of Islam itself. If the church can learn the things that attract people to the Nation of Islam, then they will be better able to witness to those in the group. The success of the Nation of Islam is not so much due to what the they are doing but to what the church has failed to do.

The Responsibility of Black Churches. The black church today has been passive and impotent in addressing racism as a sin. The church must address racism in the black community; if this is not done, then many black youths will be lost to the Nation of Islam. The reason why the Nation of Islam is extremely appealing to black men is because they address white racism and have a leader, Louis Farrakhan, who boldly defends black racism. The church must address these issues.

The church must develop a strong presence not only in the black community, but also in the jails and prisons especially ministering to young black men. Jesus warned, "I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me" (Matt. 25:43, NIV).

The church must develop economic empowerment programs for the community. The Nation of Islam has a strong economic base and is very good at providing for the have-nots in our society. They have designed a system of economic education and empowerment for the black community. The church can do more than the Nation of Islam in this area, if Christians all work together. The church can develop economic education programs that will have a dynamic effect on the black community.

The church needs to be involved in the communities and clean them up. The Nation of Islam emphasizes eating better, avoiding drugs, alcohol, and smoking. They work on cleaning up the ghettos and slums by getting rid of drug pushers, prostitutes, and other negative elements in the community. The church can also do these things and more.

The Nation of Islam emphasizes a strong family structure including fatherhood and black manhood. The church needs to provide mentorship and strong surrogate fatherhood to young black men who are without a good male role model. The church can have Christian black males work with young black males in the community in the areas of developing friendships, providing information, or obtaining jobs while helping them with housing and assisting with their educational activities or endeavors. The church needs to have more youth activities. Much can be done to get youth in the community excited about Christian activities.

The Responsibility of White Churches. It is very difficult for white Christians to approach members of the Nation of Islam in an evangelistic way. This is true because of all of the racism that has taken place. As a reaction to white racism, black racism took form. The Nation of Islam's emergence was a direct response to racism. Nevertheless, even though it is difficult to approach a member of the Nation of Islam, there are things white Christians can do.

White Christians need to take an aggressive stance against racism in America. They need to join hands with the black church to fight against any form of racism, because it is a sin. They need to strategically join together in an evangelistic reconciliation, a Christlike endeavor, in order to break down the barriers of racism. They need to worship together a black church coming together with a white church, even exchanging pulpits. They can join hands as co-laborers to reach people in the inner cities. The white pastor can preach sermons from the pulpit against racism. Every person who comes to the local church must be received with open arms, no matter what color he or she is.

The white church needs to work with the black church in developing
partnerships around mentorship and surrogate fatherhood to black males in the urban cities. One pilot project in Houston serves as an example of successful mentorship. Several white suburban churches joined some urban black churches in an effort to do something about crime in the black community. Their idea was in direct correlation to the fact that most crimes in the black community were committed by young black males who lacked a positive male role model in their lives. The churches provided substitute fathers for many of the fatherless black youths in the city. Results were astounding. Crimes committed by blacks, especially black youths, dropped dramatically. Having a father image made a significant impact upon these black youths.

One thing is certain: We need to develop an agenda for reaching the black community.

Don'ts of Witnessing to the Nation of Islam. Don?t try to convince them to get saved through your own strength. Trust the Holy Spirit to convince them to believe in Jesus. If God could save the apostle Paul, He can also save Louis Farrakhan and members of the Nation of Islam.

Don't become hostile with the members of the Nation of Islam. They are not enemies to be conquered. They are fellow human beings for whom Christ died on the cross.

Don't overwhelm them with Scripture. They will not listen if they are overwhelmed.

Don?t use a King James Bible because, according to some Muslims, King James himself translated this version and corrupted it. I recommend using the New International Version or the New American Standard Version in witnessing to them. Don't use a Bible in which you have written notes or made marks. This indicates disrespect for the Word of God to members of the Nation of Islam.

Avoid all pictures of God, Jesus, or other biblical personalities as white with blue eyes and blond hair.

Don't use the word "Trinity" because this word often connotes the worship of three gods to the Nation of Islam. You can let them know from the Scriptures that God is indeed one Being, and this one Being exists eternally as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit three persons.

In dealing with the members of the Nation of Islam, remove all offenses except the cross. They view Christian symbols as offensive.

Do's of Witnessing to the Nation of Islam. Remember your greatest weapon in witnessing is prayer. This is true when witnessing to any cultic group.

Learn to demonstrate love and patience when witnessing. "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (John 13:35, NIV).

Know what you believe and why you believe it regarding the essentials of the historic Christian faith before you even begin witnessing. Know the original even before beginning to attempt to learn about the counterfeit.

All Muslim groups are different. Know which Black Muslim group you are witnessing to. Share the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as God manifested in the flesh with the Nation of Islam members. Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life: No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6, NIV). Remind those in the Nation of Islam that according
to the Koran, "No true prophet of God can lie." If that?s true, since they believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, then Jesus told the truth about being the only truth and way to God.

Let the Nation of Islam members know that true righteousness doesn't come through man's so-called righteousness, but through the righteousness of Christ's perfect life imputed as a free gift to those who believe.

Elijah Muhammad told his followers, "The greatest hindrance to the truth of our people [members of the Nation of Islam] is the preacher of Christianity."Muhammad, Message, 18. My message to you is, Keep on being a hindrance and telling them what is right. Be encouraged! There are many who have come out of the Nation of Islam to become strong Christians in the church.

This article first appeared in the Winter 1998 issue of the Christian Research Journal.

Dr. Jerry L. Buckner holds a Bachelor’s Degree from California Baptist College of Riverside CA; a Master’s Degree from Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary of Mill Valley CA; and a doctorate from San Francisco Theology Seminary of San Francisco CA. He is currently working on a PhD at Trinity Theology Seminary of Newburg IN while also serving as the Pastor of Tiburon Christian Fellowship of Tiburon CA and as part-time Professor at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary.

Dr. Buckner’s radio ministry Contending for the Faith is aired in the Bay Area of California on KFAX AM 1100 (http://www.kfax.com/lifeline.asp) where he answers apologetics and Biblical answers. He has a passion for the defense of the faith and is available for lectures and seminars at local Churches on the issue of the Nation of Islam, the Trinity, and issues facing the African-American Christian community. He may be contacted at:

Contending for the Faith
POB 553
Tiburon, CA 94920
510-713-1100

Dr. Buckner’s website and ministry can be found here (
http://www.jamesrobison.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID236518%7CCHID438620%7CCIID1016124,00.html) which has many useful materials for your reference and edification. Please feel free to contact Contending for the Faith with any questions or advise for reference. Please look out for Dr. Buckner’s articles in the Christian Research Journal including this featured article (http://www.equip.org/journal/index.asp?Volume=79)
as well as an examination of the teachings of T.D. Jakes in the Vol 22 No 2 (http://www.equip.org/journal/index.asp?Volume=86) issue and look forward to an upcoming examination of departures from orthodoxy in African-American churches.

Dee Dee Warren
April 27th 2004, 09:52 PM
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FormerFundy
April 28th 2004, 09:51 AM
"Black churches" and "white churches"?

Is this condoning racism?



White Christians need to take an aggressive stance against racism in America. They need to join hands with the black church to fight against any form of racism, because it is a sin.

How about integrating the churches as a first step?

Dee Dee Warren
April 28th 2004, 10:38 AM
"Black churches" and "white churches"?

Is this condoning racism?

Only if you are looking to condemn something. The author is black. He is stating a reality not condoning it or saying that is the ideal situation.




How about integrating the churches as a first step?

I do believe he mentions that in principle. My church is pretty integrated in that the percentages of black versus white attendees reflect the county demographics. However.... I attend a church with about fifteen thousand of my closest friends, in other words, it is a county-wide mega-church. Most churches are much more smaller community based meaning they draw their membership from the surrounding community. If the community is a racial mix, so will there congregation be, so the problem isn't generally a forced segregation in our churches, the churches are a reflection of the segregation and racial lines that still exist in our communities, so let's be fair.

FormerFundy
April 28th 2004, 10:51 AM
Only if you are looking to condemn something. The author is black. He is stating a reality not condoning it or saying that is the ideal situation.


Just asking the question.



I do believe he mentions that in principle. My church is pretty integrated in that the percentages of black versus white attendees reflect the county demographics. However.... I attend a church with about fifteen thousand of my closest friends, in other words, it is a county-wide mega-church. Most churches are much more smaller community based meaning they draw their membership from the surrounding community. If the community is a racial mix, so will there congregation be, so the problem isn't generally a forced segregation in our churches, the churches are a reflection of the segregation and racial lines that still exist in our communities, so let's be fair.

I agree it is not a forced segregation (it used to be in the South but very rarely these days). However, is it not somewhat strange that the most segregated institution in the US (except for prisons) is the Church? Should this not be of concern to Christians?

You say:
the churches are a reflection of the segregation and racial lines that still exist in our communities, so let's be fair

Should the church be reflecting the community or should the church be showing the way for the community to follow?

Dee Dee Warren
April 28th 2004, 11:02 AM
I agree it is not a forced segregation (it used to be in the South but very rarely these days). However, is it not somewhat strange that the most segregated institution in the US (except for prisons) is the Church? Should this not be of concern to Christians?

Really? I think hockey is. And who says it is not? The author deals with that issue in principle.




Should the church be reflecting the community or should the church be showing the way for the community to follow?

Do you suggest forced bussing? People come voluntarily to churches. Now churches can have more intracommunity efforts and cooperative issues but attendance is largely driven by the community in which they exist. In commuities that are more integrated the churches are as well. A church that has predominantly black members is not necessarily prejudiced against whites, it is simply the neighborhood demographics. You cannot tell bias until you see how a white attendee is treated or how they interact with churches of predemoninatly different groups, and vice versa. Attendance is neceesarily not reflective of a church's attitude on such things whatsover.

Solly
April 28th 2004, 11:10 AM
IN the UK, a significant number of pentecostal denominations are almost wholly black, even in my town where we do not have ethnic quarters. that's the way it is. We tend to have middle and working class churches too. And churches with different demographics according to age as well.

The situation in America does, however, seem to reflect upon a segment of society that has fallen through the net, and has now asserted its own identity, rather than have one forced upon it. Nothing new there. NoI seems to be mainly a sociological phenomenon. Malcolm X and MLK has similar discussions I believe.

elysian
April 28th 2004, 12:11 PM
Yes it is a sad reality that our churches in large part have remained segregated even though the rest of society is integrated. One exception I see is the Roman Catholic church- many RC churches in my area are very racially integrated but this may be a regional anomaly.

The Lutheran church is growing more in Africa than anywhere else in the world, yet in the US when most people think of Lutherans the perception is that we are all ethnic Germans. The sad part is that in the Midwest (especially Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri) that stereotype is generally true. Some churches are so attached to the idea of ethnic preservation that they become de facto closed societies. Some churches (not just Lutherans) even had a tradition that families could buy pews- an assigned seat with a plaque on it that no one else could sit in! Talk about becoming territorial!

The first Lutheran church I belonged to was in the process of trying to overcome that closed society idiom, (they had just begun teen outreach, adult catechism and evangelistic ministry) and I have visited others that appear to be almost hostile to visitors. Traditionally Lutheran churches in the US didn't seek out adult converts or minister to new Christians- you were born into a family that belonged to the church and then you were baptized and raised in the church. So the ethnic traditions continued because everyone in the church was of a certain ancestry, (in the US you would typically be of German, Norwegian or Swedish descent) because you were brought to the church by your family. Today's society doesn't work that way- very few people are "born" into the church they will remain in for their entire life. People move away or even choose a different denomination- so actively ministering to adults "outside" of the church is essential. Ministering to people of all ages, stages, cultures and ethnicities is essential as well for a healthy church.

I would assume some of the historically Black churches have a similar dynamic- I know some Black churches were established specifically as Black churches because they weren't allowed in the "white" church :sad: which really makes me sad. I have Black friends who are impassioned for the Lord, yet they feel uncomfortable going to worship with white people or in a "white" church out of fear of discrimination or not being made to feel welcome. I understand that the style of worship varies based on culture, but isn't the message the same? (or at least it should be.)

Part of the difficulty in integrating churches is the differences in cultures and not necessarily race. The challenge for a truly evangelistic church is to embrace a variety of different cultures and worship styles. It means that we challenge tradition without challenging the Gospel, and it means that we must open our doors and our hearts in hospitality and welcome to those who are different from us. For after all we are all one Body of Christ.

FormerFundy
April 28th 2004, 01:54 PM
Really? I think hockey is. And who says it is not? The author deals with that issue in principle.



Hockey, if you are talking about the NHL is not open to everyone. It is based on talent just like the NBA. That is not racism. Not only that, hockey does not claim to have special revelation from God and to be God's people on earth as the church does. I think the church as a little more responsibility.




Do you suggest forced bussing? People come voluntarily to churches.


Of course not that is absurd. Yes people come voluntarily to churches but evangelical churches are supposed to have outreach. I speak from personal knowledge here as one who grew up in conservative Baptist churches in the South. I know of dozens of churches which moved from their neighborhoods to farther out suburbs in order to avoid the influx of black people. The First Baptist Church of Atlanta, Charles Stanley, is a perfect example. He moved the church from downtown to outside the perimeter because the "neighborhood had changed."

I also know of a specific situation in the late 1970's when the one of the largest Baptist churches in the Atlanta area spun off a separate "Black church" in order to avoid the split that was threatened by the deacons if they dared to baptize a "negro" in our baptismal along with white kids.

This is personal experience and knowledge. I think it has changed tremendously over the years but I still think it reflects poorly on the church in which there is supposed to be "neither Jew nor Gentlie but one in Christ".

Dee Dee Warren
April 28th 2004, 07:27 PM
Hockey, if you are talking about the NHL is not open to everyone. It is based on talent just like the NBA. That is not racism. Not only that, hockey does not claim to have special revelation from God and to be God's people on earth as the church does. I think the church as a little more responsibility.


I suggest you study up on racism within the NHL. From what I understand there is deep seated racism in it though I am hardly a hockey expert. And no one denied the responsibility of the church.



Of course not that is absurd. Yes people come voluntarily to churches but evangelical churches are supposed to have outreach.

And many do.



I speak from personal knowledge here as one who grew up in conservative Baptist churches in the South. I know of dozens of churches which moved from their neighborhoods to farther out suburbs in order to avoid the influx of black people. The First Baptist Church of Atlanta, Charles Stanley, is a perfect example. He moved the church from downtown to outside the perimeter because the "neighborhood had changed."

I don't know about the Stanley situation but no one is denying that there are situations which are incorrect.




I also know of a specific situation in the late 1970's when the one of the largest Baptist churches in the Atlanta area spun off a separate "Black church" in order to avoid the split that was threatened by the deacons if they dared to baptize a "negro" in our baptismal along with white kids.

Okay. No one is denying things can and have been wrong. This thread though is not about your grudge against the church. Your posts here are notoriously absent of what is being done. Are you expecting perfection in the Church? You will be horribly disappointed.



This is personal experience and knowledge. I think it has changed tremendously over the years but I still think it reflects poorly on the church in which there is supposed to be "neither Jew nor Gentlie but one in Christ".

When such situations happen it certainly does reflect poorly.

BurntOffering
May 6th 2004, 12:05 PM
I think this featured post is the result of an "African American's" white wash; failure to see Minister Farrakahn as His brother; or even a Son of Father's Abraham's also.

It begins with the million man march, and then starts talking about the segrations between white and black churches. I have always felt that it was "A Shame Before God" that when farrakahn called for the million Man march he stood Alone. I think Black America needs to know; God promised Hagar; (a black woman) and Mother of Abrahams first son was also promised A Great Nation; such as America or Ours.

But then again; Some people arent interesting in talking about the Plight of Black People in America, or All over the world cause they dont think its significant; but will turn around and make this the Featured post; but claim not to have a opinion one way or the other...... Hog Wash.

Peace out

anthrogirl
May 6th 2004, 12:46 PM
CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH (http://www.jamesrobison.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID236518%7CCHID438620%7CCIID1016124,00.html)

EFFECTIVE EVANGELISM: Witnessing to the Nation of Islam

by Jerry L. Buckner

The Nation of Islam represents a serious threat to the Christian community. The growing presence of the Nation of Islam and their attacks on essential Christian doctrines make it difficult to continue ignoring them.
I find it very sad that these religions are so hung up on the war metaphor, the battle for supremecy, despite God/Allah's preferance for peace. It all seems pathetically racist and self-aggrandizing (for all parties).

Are we living in the Dark Ages? Do we really want to face another Crusade (be it physically, spiritually, or intellectually violent)?

The Million Man March was a wonderful event--not an afront to Christianity. It served as an epoxy to an otherwise bruised and fragmented Black community. To cheapen the experience with religious dogma and dualism robs the world of the poignancy of freedom. Are we not compelled to respect religious choice?

anthrogirl

fototune
May 8th 2004, 03:52 PM
Really? I think hockey is. And who says it is not? The author deals with that issue in principle.



Do you suggest forced bussing? People come voluntarily to churches. Now churches can have more intracommunity efforts and cooperative issues but attendance is largely driven by the community in which they exist. In commuities that are more integrated the churches are as well. A church that has predominantly black members is not necessarily prejudiced against whites, it is simply the neighborhood demographics. You cannot tell bias until you see how a white attendee is treated or how they interact with churches of predemoninatly different groups, and vice versa. Attendance is neceesarily not reflective of a church's attitude on such things whatsover.

:smile:
I once interviewed Andra`e Crouch, the gospel singer. He pastors the church his father started, and he talked about why black people are successful in some sports, while conspicuously absent from others. Take hockey, as an example. You have to have skates, stick, puck, ice rink, etc. Depending where you live, like LA, there may not be any ice, unless you have money to go pay a rink. Whereas basketball, baseball, football, and track can be performed anywhere, and with much less of an investment. It’s all economic. The almighty buck. The root of all evil. Karl Marx, the seminary student recognized this, and tried to level the playing field. Unfortunately Lenin, and Trotsky got off to a bad start.