The Hand Blessing in the synagogue

[kofh2u]

The Jewish cemetery contains engraved headstones showing a pair of hands held out in a strange position. The fork shaped separation of two paired sets of fingers on each hand make them look exactly like those of Spock.

1) These hands are only on graves of dead men named "Cohan."

2) Men named Cohan
are active in the synagogues today, occassionally performing a ritual they call the Hand Blessing. However, they are descendents directly and genetically related to the very first priests, the sons of Aaron, then called Kohanim. (Priest). Their role in the congregation has gone from total and unique priestly authority to a very brief and subservient role, one replaced by rabbi today. What was their full relation to the Aaronic ministration? Were they, especially, commanded to minister for the Jewish congregation then and now?

4) Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand,....

[One Bad Pig]

The Jewish cemetery contains engraved headstones showing a pair of hands held out in a strange position. The fork shaped separation of two paired sets of fingers on each hand make them look exactly like those of Spock.

1) These hands are only on graves of dead men named "Cohan."

2) Men named Cohan
are active in the synagogues today, occassionally performing a ritual they call the Hand Blessing. However, they are descendents directly and genetically related to the very first priests, the sons of Aaron, then called Kohanim. (Priest). Their role in the congregation has gone from total and unique priestly authority to a very brief and subservient role, one replaced by rabbi today. What was their full relation to the Aaronic ministration? Were they, especially, commanded to minister for the Jewish congregation then and now?
:hrm: The priests ministered at the temple. What would a priest do without the temple?

4) Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand,....
What happened to 3)?
I don't know what you're trying to prove with this quote. It refers to a winnowing fork, which is a farming implement.

[kofh2u]

:hrm: The priests ministered at the temple. What would a priest do without the temple?

What happened to 3)?
I don't know what you're trying to prove with this quote. It refers to a winnowing fork, which is a farming implement.

Oh, yeah, 3).

Matt. 3:12 Whose fan (as if a winnowing fork) is in his hand (resurrecting the oral art of the Kohanim), and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

[NeilUnreal]

I attended a lecture and poetry reading by Leonard Nemoy at which he claimed he modeled the Spock hand gesture after his memory of a gesture of blessing he saw someone perform in a Synagog as a child.

[kofh2u]

I attended a lecture and poetry reading by Leonard Nemoy at which he claimed he modeled the Spock hand gesture after his memory of a gesture of blessing he saw someone perform in a Synagog as a child.


Get outta here!

I was so surprised when I saw Spock's hand, thinking it was a synchronism of some mystical origin.

Thank you for the reference!

The Encyclopedia Judaica has just one ancient sketsh of the back of the hand. Always held palm up, facing the congregation, the hand does not evidence back with notations written in Hebrew. This "secret manna" is compounded by the requirement that tge congregation use those shawls (described in Exodus) to cover tgeir heads explicitly so they can not see the hands. Its a no-no to see these hands!

Isa. 44:5 One shall say, I am the LORD’S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.

[NeilUnreal]

… Spock's hand…

It was a very interesting lecture, a long time ago when Mr. Nimoy* was trying to launch his poetry career. It was sponsored by the arts department at a university I was attending.

I’m not much of a “Trekkie,” but a Trekkie friend dragged me along and to my surprise the evening had very little to do with Star Trek at all. The talk was very eclectic, and focused on everything from filmmaking, to poetry, to general life experiences. At the end, he read selections from his poetry. I have to say I was impressed by Mr. Nimoy both as an artist and an individual. He has a presence that can only be described as "avuncular," in the best sense of the word.

Re. the hand gesture: Someone asked him where he got the idea. He said that at the end of the synagogue service, the congregants were required to turn around and face away from the priest or rabbi for the blessing. Being a curious child, he couldn’t resist peeking and saw the hand gesture.

-Neil

*I realize now I misspelled both “Nimoy” and “synagogue” in the original post. What can I say? It was Friday night! :lol:

[kofh2u]

It was a very interesting lecture, a long time ago when Mr. Nimoy* was trying to launch his poetry career. It was sponsored by the arts department at a university I was attending.

I’m not much of a “Trekkie,” but a Trekkie friend dragged me along and to my surprise the evening had very little to do with Star Trek at all. The talk was very eclectic, and focused on everything from filmmaking, to poetry, to general life experiences. At the end, he read selections from his poetry. I have to say I was impressed by Mr. Nimoy both as an artist and an individual. He has a presence that can only be described as "avuncular," in the best sense of the word.

Re. the hand gesture: Someone asked him where he got the idea. He said that at the end of the synagogue service, the congregants were required to turn around and face away from the priest or rabbi for the blessing. Being a curious child, he couldn’t resist peeking and saw the hand gesture.

-Neil

*I realize now I misspelled both “Nimoy” and “synagogue” in the original post. What can I say? It was Friday night! :lol:


Thank God for little kids.
The "secret" is now out because of peeking! Another person told me the same thing.

Note this:

From: journal Lancet
Applying the techniques of modern genetics to members of the ancient
institution known as the Cohanim, the Jewish priesthood which predates
the present system of Rabbi, genetics has allowed them to trace their origins back 3300 years.

Beginning with Aaron, priestly status has been passed down through the
ages, from fathers to sons through word of mouth. To this day, all the
Cohanim are seen as descendants of Aaron, not just figuratively but by
blood. Many, but not all, have the surname Cohen, Kohen, Cohn, Kohn,
Cone, Kone, Cahn, Kahn or Kahane. (Cohan in Hebrew means priest.)

In Orthodox and some Conservative congregations, they are accorded
special respect and are the only ones who can perform certain important
religious duties.

(My note:
The Cohanim Blessing is made by holding the hand with a split between the ring finger and the middle finger- a gesture
decidedly similar in posture to the greeting of Dr. Spock's hand on
"Star Trek.")

The test examined certain portions of the Y-chromosome, which, like the
priestly distinction, belongs only to men, and is passed strictly from
father to son. As the researchers reported in the journal Lancet, the
men who had been told they were Cohanim shared certain distinctive
genetic traits, indicating that they may represent a single line tracing
back to one male forebearer, perhaps even Aaron.

Important to the dating of the time of Exodus, some Rabbis are quick to
point out, the study not only confirms the genetic links among Cohanim, it also validates the reliability of the word-of-mouth, father -to- son transmission of the priesthood. It confirms that the Jewish people have for 3300 years maintained their authenticity and familial integrity. In this, the record measuring 3300 years we have an independent measurement of time, one which sets the date of the Exodus, during the life time of Aaron, at @1200BC.

[kofh2u]

:hrm: The priests ministered at the temple. What would a priest do without the temple?

What happened to 3)?
I don't know what you're trying to prove with this quote. It refers to a winnowing fork, which is a farming implement.


Since this is Archeology, the discussion here seems revivable.

John the Baptist's cave has just recently been discovered. And, an interesting hand print on the wall was shown in the pictures I saw. It seemes to have been chisled on the wall of the cave along with other writings that helped establish the hypothesis that the cave was actually used by John and his followers.

I also read a funny... supposedly funny... take on the meaning of the word "Jud" in the verse Rev 5:5,... "the lion of Judah prevails to open the book sealed with seven seals."

Jud supposedly has some archaic root meaning related to the use of the hand.

Then, of course, Rev 1:16 is a strange symbolism still open to guesses from the experts. Our best Bible authorities have zero, these men throughout the whole Christian Age, who have had 2000 years to help us understand what this all means.

True, I am "trying to prove with this quote" that there is a very significant matter here. Those who ignored references concerning "the hand" miss my point.

It could turn out to be the biggest insight into scripture in the last millennium... unless we consider M. Luther's to be the greatest and unbeatable.

It (the fork in the hand of Jesus) refers to a winnowing fork, which is a farming implement... how? Why?

What are people implying who respond to my post with such comments as asking what amI about? What about Matthew 3:12? Rev 1:16?

Jesus had a hand shaped like a two prong fork?

"How come," that would seem to be an intelligent response... not asking what nerve I have in raising awareness and maybe, just maybe, having a theory about it, where none presently exists... or, does a theory exist? Or just metaphysical supernatural spiritualistic ideas concerning the meaning of Matt 3:12?
Tell me.

[One Bad Pig]

It (the fork in the hand of Jesus) refers to a winnowing fork, which is a farming implement... how? Why?

What are people implying who respond to my post with such comments as asking what amI about? What about Matthew 3:12? Rev 1:16?

Jesus had a hand shaped like a two prong fork?

"How come," that would seem to be an intelligent response... not asking what nerve I have in raising awareness and maybe, just maybe, having a theory about it, where none presently exists... or, does a theory exist? Or just metaphysical supernatural spiritualistic ideas concerning the meaning of Matt 3:12?
Tell me.
Matt. 3:12 refers to a winnowing fork in Jesus' hand, not his hand shaped like a winnowing fork. Surely you see the difference?

[kofh2u]

Matt. 3:12 refers to a winnowing fork in Jesus' hand, not his hand shaped like a winnowing fork. Surely you see the difference?

Hmmmmm....

No. I'm not as sure as you about the difference.

It would be informative in itself, to believe that Jesus, literally, had a winnowing fork, in... as you say,... in his hand. What would we think about that if it were the meaning?

If John was just being metaphorical, saying the fan in his hand was to wave some people in one direction and others away, then why use a word for "fan" that means a two prong fan or fork?
Or, did he really mean... like a winnowing fork, using simile?

It is not clear, in what way did the hand of Jesus relate to his power of baptism? And, how is it that JTB seems to have exalted this "fan in the hand" baptism above his own water ?

Then we have the reference in Revelation 1:16 and 1:20... He comes again with this specific reference to His right hand.

Added to this, a winnowing fork is a two pronged fork, one that is like the way Dr Spock holds his hand, the fingers paired and spread to form a V.

Naaa. I couldn't go for Jesus actually holding a fork,two-pronged or four. Why would John say this,...

Matt. 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand,...

Christ has a fan? And, it is in his hand... or he has a hand in the shape of a winnowing fork, the fingers spread like Spock does?

Now this was very confusing to me before I discovered a picture of the way the Jews in the days of Moses actually held their hand... just like Spock holds his!

I have the picture of the way Aaron, the high priest, held his hand! I got it from the Encyclopedia Judaica. He held it just like Dr Spock! Itlooks like a winnowing fork!

[One Bad Pig]

Hmmmmm....

No. I'm not as sure as you about the difference.

It would be informative in itself, to believe that Jesus, literally, had a winnowing fork, in... as you say,... in his hand. What would we think about that if it were the meaning?

If John was just being metaphorical, saying the fan in his hand was to wave some people in one direction and others away, then why use a word for "fan" that means a two prong fan or fork?
Or, did he really mean... like a winnowing fork, using simile?

It is not clear, in what way did the hand of Jesus relate to his power of baptism? And, how is it that JTB seems to have exalted this "fan in the hand" baptism above his own water ?

Then we have the reference in Revelation 1:16 and 1:20... He comes again with this specific reference to His right hand.

Added to this, a winnowing fork is a two pronged fork, one that is like the way Dr Spock holds his hand, the fingers paired and spread to form a V.

Naaa. I couldn't go for Jesus actually holding a fork,two-pronged or four. Why would John say this,...

Matt. 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand,...

Christ has a fan? And, it is in his hand... or he has a hand in the shape of a winnowing fork, the fingers spread like Spock does?

Now this was very confusing to me before I discovered a picture of the way the Jews in the days of Moses actually held their hand... just like Spock holds his!

I have the picture of the way Aaron, the high priest, held his hand! I got it from the Encyclopedia Judaica. He held it just like Dr Spock! Itlooks like a winnowing fork!
I'm sorry this was so confusing to you. Why must you make it so complicated?
11I baptize you with water for repentance, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to cary his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and will gather his wheat into the granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire. (NRSV)
John contrasts his message of repentance with Jesus' message of judgement. He uses the image of Jesus as a farmer wielding a winnowing fork to separate the wheat from the chaff to illustrate the way Jesus will separate those who follow Him (the wheat) from those who reject Him (the chaff). How hard is that to undestand?

[shunyadragon]

I'm sorry this was so confusing to you. Why must you make it so complicated?
11I baptize you with water for repentance, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to cary his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and will gather his wheat into the granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire. (NRSV)
John contrasts his message of repentance with Jesus' message of judgement. He uses the image of Jesus as a farmer wielding a winnowing fork to separate the wheat from the chaff to illustrate the way Jesus will separate those who follow Him (the wheat) from those who reject Him (the chaff). How hard is that to undestand?As symbolism or simile it is not hard to understand, because it is an older tradition in Judaism for a blessing.

Actually whether literal or symbolic the meaning is likely the same. I prefer the symbolic jesture.

[Sacrificial Ram]

The Jewish cemetery contains engraved headstones showing a pair of hands held out in a strange position. The fork shaped separation of two paired sets of fingers on each hand make them look exactly like those of Spock.

1) These hands are only on graves of dead men named "Cohan."

2) Men named Cohan
are active in the synagogues today, occassionally performing a ritual they call the Hand Blessing. However, they are descendents directly and genetically related to the very first priests, the sons of Aaron, then called Kohanim. (Priest). Their role in the congregation has gone from total and unique priestly authority to a very brief and subservient role, one replaced by rabbi today. What was their full relation to the Aaronic ministration? Were they, especially, commanded to minister for the Jewish congregation then and now?

4) Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand,....
Well, that is a very good reason for that. The Split is the hand form that is
the symbol of the Sheckhina, which some orthodox synagogues use in some prayers. The Sheckhina is the feminine aspect of God... because to be able to make Man and woman in gods image, God to have feminine attributes.

Leonard Nimoy took that symbology from his childhood. I got that from
a lecture by him when he was promoting his book of photography.

[kofh2u]

Well, that is a very good reason for that. The Split is the hand form that is
the symbol of the Sheckhina, which some orthodox synagogues use in some prayers. The Sheckhina is the feminine aspect of God... because to be able to make Man and woman in gods image, God to have feminine attributes.

Leonard Nimoy took that symbology from his childhood. I got that from
a lecture by him when he was promoting his book of photography.


Sacrifical ram, can i just call u rammy?

True. Everything you said is right on.

It is important that Christians understand what you are saying here,...

1) Jesus would have been holding his hand in a very unusual way that Jews would recognize even today.
2) However, the way he held his hand was then, and is now, part of a secret Jewish ritual where the congregation in the synagogue must cover their head with their shawls. They are forbidden to look at those hands of the priest who is blessing them.

3) Jesus was "laying hands" visibly on the people, holding his hand like Spock.

4) There are reasons why this Jewish ritual is performed, and there is also evidence that the temple priests, @ 900BC terminated the full service these Kohanimhad preformed since the time of Moses.

5) Matthew 1:1-19 is really an exercise in this priestly performance, one I believe the apostles where taught.

6) I have photos of the hands which I can email but I can not post here as an avatar because I am usinga pocketPC

7) The hand carved on the wall, in the recently discovered cave where they suspect John the Baptist held meetings with his apostles, adds credence to this idea. There is much more to suggest great importance in this winnowing fork-like posture of the hand of Jesus. He was resurrecting the dry bones of ezekiel and connecting bone to bone, rising up the whole of Israel with a resurrection of a murdered priesthood decimated by the scribes and temple leaders who had replaced them and their ancient ritual service in the temple.

8) @900 BC, the temple priest collected scraps and segments of the writtenTorah and canonized it for the first time as a text, replacing the oral delivery of the Kohanim. Jesus was now ready to demonstrate the secret art of the Aaronic priest, the Cohans.