Mashiach and Redemption

[Mevaser (Karl)]

Mashiach and Redemption / משיח וגאולה

According to the Jewish Scriptures the beginning of the Redemption had already begun from the day Adam and Hava (Eve) committed the first sin in this world. From that day on, the world has been in the preparatory stage for the beginning of the final Redemption. The beginnings of the geula (redemption) starts with the proclamation of G-d’s plan for Mashiach in this world (see Bereshit 3:15). According to Jewish tradition He is to come in two different stages, these are: Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiach ben David, thus two types of Geula. This is to be understood as: Mashiach ben Yosef who will conquer the Esav force (the sin that separates us from G-d), as Yosef stood above negative physical desire (Remember also that Yosef started the beginning of such redemption at that time). But at the end Mashiach ben Yosef must sacrifice His life for the struggle, so that the final redemption will come through Emunah / belief in His work (See Yeshayahu 53).
משיח בן יוסף - Mashiach Ben Yosef: The forerunner and harbinger of the final deliverer, the Messiah from the house of David, this is Mashiach ben David. Belief in the appearance of the Mashiach ben Yosef is derived from Scripture and tradition, just as Mashiach ben David, who is descended from Judah (Melech HaMashiach).

משיח בן דוד - Mashiach Ben David: As for the second Geula, the Gaon of Vilna (1720-1797), along with other Jewish Teachers of the Bible, asserted that there will be great wars on both in the physical and metaphysical planes between the Jewish People and other nations, as well as internally between Israel and its inhabitants who are part of the Erev Rav (the "Mixed multitude"). Therefore Mashiach ben David, connected with the quality of Malchut (Royalty), will bring the final redemption, conquering the Lavan force (the Lavan force is that that tries to restrain the Kingdom of G-d, according to the Hagaddah, “Lavan wanted to uproot everything,” because he wanted to strike out at the mind, the seat of the soul). At the end Mashiach Ben David is less of a question, because He is the hero’s hero. Everyone can, and has conceived of Him.

At the end Mashiach ben Yosef is the one who prepares the world for the physical culmination of the Redemption (by Emunah in Mashiach), the Kingdom of G-d on earth. "Yosef recognized his brothers, but they did not recognize him -- This is one of the traits of Yosef not only in his own generation, but in every generation, i.e., that Mashiach ben Yosef recognizes his brothers, but they do not recognize him. This is the work of Satan, who hides the characteristics of Mashiach ben Yosef so that the footsteps of the Mashiach are not recognized and are even belittled because of our many sins. Otherwise, our troubles would already have ended. Were Israel to recognize Yosef, that is, the footsteps of ben Yosef the Mashiach which is the ingathering of the exiles etc., then we would already have been redeemed with a complete redemption. (Kol Hator, Chapter 2, Aspect #39 by Rabbi Hillel Shklover)"

In Jewish Theology Yosef is associated with the aspect of God known as Yesod (Foundation), Yesod follows Malchut (Kingdom). Indeed Mashiach Ben Yosef is the foundation of such end of the Geula (Redemption), which will bring the final redeemer who came once as Mashiach Ben Yosef, but now as Mashiach Ben David. Yeshua Melech HaMashiach, the Pierced one as per Zechariah 12:10.

Would you have Emuna in Him? Do you want Mashiach Now?
Karl (Mevaser)
www.cmy.on.ca (http://www.cmy.on.ca/)

[Menachem]

Mashiach and Redemption / משיח וגאולה

According to the Jewish Scriptures the beginning of the Redemption had already begun from the day Adam and Hava (Eve) committed the first sin in this world. From that day on, the world has been in the preparatory stage for the beginning of the final Redemption. The beginnings of the geula (redemption) starts with the proclamation of G-d’s plan for Mashiach in this world (see Bereshit 3:15). According to Jewish tradition He is to come in two different stages, these are: Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiach ben David, thus two types of Geula. This is to be understood as: Mashiach ben Yosef who will conquer the Esav force (the sin that separates us from G-d), as Yosef stood above negative physical desire (Remember also that Yosef started the beginning of such redemption at that time). But at the end Mashiach ben Yosef must sacrifice His life for the struggle, so that the final redemption will come through Emunah / belief in His work (See Yeshayahu 53).
משיח בן יוסף - Mashiach Ben Yosef: The forerunner and harbinger of the final deliverer, the Messiah from the house of David, this is Mashiach ben David. Belief in the appearance of the Mashiach ben Yosef is derived from Scripture and tradition, just as Mashiach ben David, who is descended from Judah (Melech HaMashiach).

משיח בן דוד - Mashiach Ben David: As for the second Geula, the Gaon of Vilna (1720-1797), along with other Jewish Teachers of the Bible, asserted that there will be great wars on both in the physical and metaphysical planes between the Jewish People and other nations, as well as internally between Israel and its inhabitants who are part of the Erev Rav (the "Mixed multitude"). Therefore Mashiach ben David, connected with the quality of Malchut (Royalty), will bring the final redemption, conquering the Lavan force (the Lavan force is that that tries to restrain the Kingdom of G-d, according to the Hagaddah, “Lavan wanted to uproot everything,” because he wanted to strike out at the mind, the seat of the soul). At the end Mashiach Ben David is less of a question, because He is the hero’s hero. Everyone can, and has conceived of Him.

At the end Mashiach ben Yosef is the one who prepares the world for the physical culmination of the Redemption (by Emunah in Mashiach), the Kingdom of G-d on earth. "Yosef recognized his brothers, but they did not recognize him -- This is one of the traits of Yosef not only in his own generation, but in every generation, i.e., that Mashiach ben Yosef recognizes his brothers, but they do not recognize him. This is the work of Satan, who hides the characteristics of Mashiach ben Yosef so that the footsteps of the Mashiach are not recognized and are even belittled because of our many sins. Otherwise, our troubles would already have ended. Were Israel to recognize Yosef, that is, the footsteps of ben Yosef the Mashiach which is the ingathering of the exiles etc., then we would already have been redeemed with a complete redemption. (Kol Hator, Chapter 2, Aspect #39 by Rabbi Hillel Shklover)"

In Jewish Theology Yosef is associated with the aspect of God known as Yesod (Foundation), Yesod follows Malchut (Kingdom). Indeed Mashiach Ben Yosef is the foundation of such end of the Geula (Redemption), which will bring the final redeemer who came once as Mashiach Ben Yosef, but now as Mashiach Ben David. Yeshua Melech HaMashiach, the Pierced one as per Zechariah 12:10.

Would you have Emuna in Him? Do you want Mashiach Now?
Karl (Mevaser)
www.cmy.on.ca (http://www.cmy.on.ca/)


This man does not speak for Jewish tradition as it is plain to see he is of the "Messianic" persuasion.

Mashiakh ben Yosef according to the Talmud is the son of the patriarch Joseph of either the tribe of Ephraim or Mennaseh. According to the Talmud Mashikah ben Yosef will die in the final battle between good and evil he is not a sacrifice he will simply die in battle or sometime afterward. Mashiakh ben David who is the King messiah will come in after the death of Mashiakh ben Yosef and usher in an era of endless peace.

What Mevaser(Karl) is suggesting about the Paradigm discussed is not in Jewish scriptures. This is part of His views as a "messianic" and are not the View of Jews.

[Mevaser (Karl)]

Shalom Eli,

As it happens I'm writting from the Jewish perpective. But as we say: Anachnu Rotzim Mashiach Achshav (we want Mashiach Now) we never say Messiah's, only singular, so Mashiach ben Yosef, and David has to be ONE. Not two.

Mashiach has to be a decendant of David. No where in the bible says that Mashiach will be from Efraim.

As a matter of a fact, this is the view of even the Chabad movement, so they said that their Rebbe was from Yehuda, even though he suffered as Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 53! And remember that passage refers to Mashiach Ben Yosef!

Shalom Shalom

Plus who made you the Jewish authority in this matter. :blush:

[Menachem]

Shalom Eli,

As it happens I'm writting from the Jewish perpective. But as we say: Anachnu Rotzim Mashiach Achshav (we want Mashiach Now) we never say Messiah's, only singular, so Mashiach ben Yosef, and David has to be ONE. Not two.

Mashiach has to be a decendant of David. No where in the bible says that Mashiach will be from Efraim.

As a matter of a fact, this is the view of even the Chabad movement, so they said that their Rebbe was from Yehuda, even though he suffered as Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 53! And remember that passage refers to Mashiach Ben Yosef!

Shalom Shalom

Plus who made you the Jewish authority in this matter. :blush:


The writing in which you posted gives the impression of a messianic jew .
If you look at Sukkah 52a you will see the two messiah's Mashiakh ben Yosef and Mashiakh ben David are two separate people being identified. Saying that these two are the same person goes against what the Talmud says of the Two. Sukkah 52b goes on to further identify the two separately. Furthermore Rashi Identifies Mashiakh ben Yosef as the son of the Patriarch Yosef in the Talmud. The Talmud identifies the Two as separate.

As for me being the foremost authority on the matter I can say I am not. As for your view being that of the Jewish perspective I can say definately not. In your response you were Either 1. were not aware of the Talmudic references to messiah ben Yosef and messiah ben David 2. your are a Karaite Jew and do not accept the Talmud as scriptural or 3. you are a messianic jew and want to force fit jesus as the messiah ben yosef who is ultimately messiah ben David which is an incorrect assumption about the Two especially when read about in the Talmud.

I'll let you pick which one is the right one....

[Goose]

Plus who made you the Jewish authority in this matter. :blush:I know this wasn't addressed towards me, but I need to say something. If Eli is a (Orthodox) Jew, then his authority comes straight from HaShem, which is continuous from the time of Moshe. Jews (and even geiriym like myself) have authority over goyim like youself, concerning HaShem's Torah. What you talk about is "Jewish", but not of an (Orthodox) Jew perspective, as continuous from Moshe. Anyone can talk and sound Jewish, but you can only be a Jew through (Orthodox) halachaic procedures, as continuous from Moshe. Christianity is not one of these procedures.

[Timothy Leary]

*Disagrees on "authority" issue*

[Menachem]

I guess that since mevaser(Karl) wont pick one of the numbers I am going to pick which one is the right one and that number is a Resounding 3 for being a messyantic who wants to try and force fit his christian jesus theology into Judaism.


P.S. The website and the wording of his post gave it away.

[Menachem]

*Disagrees on "authority" issue*


C'mon....... Yoshiah your ruining my moment of greatness......lol

[Timothy Leary]

LOL, I know... that why I kept it to a quiet objection :)

[Menachem]

I wonder why Mevaser(karl) hasn't returned?????.....LoL

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Uh...what Eli says.

I don't want to insult or offend anyone here (least of all Goose, who is courteous & a gentleman), but belief in Jesus/Ribi Yehoshua/Yeshua/Yahoshua/etc. as the Messiah, the "Son of God", an avatar of God Incarnate, a "person" within a triune God, etc. is totally, utterly, and completely incompatible with traditional, normative (i.e. orthodox) Judaism, whether of the Rabbinic or Karaite variety. (Heck, even the Samaritans would agree with us on this one!) This circle can never be squared (although we do give Mevaser an A+ for effort & stick-to-itiveness). Extremist Chabad meshugas is hardly representative of the orthodox consensus.

Be well!

ssv :hi:

[Timothy Leary]

Agreed, SSV.

[Goose]

I wonder why Mevaser(karl) hasn't returned?????.....LoLI've seen him spam other theology boards with the same exact post. I doubt he'll be back. (Which is fine by me)

[Menachem]

I'll have to agree with that StillSmallVoice all the way....

[Mevaser (Karl)]

Shalom every one

Goose I'm here to dash your hopes. I'm back...

I have been quite busy editing a book and a bunch of other things.

I'm Back!

[Menachem]

Shalom every one

Goose I'm here to dash your hopes. I'm back...

I have been quite busy editing a book and a bunch of other things.

I'm Back!


Lions, and Tigers, and Mevaser(karl) OH MY!....LoL

[Goose]

hahaha He's BAAAaaack

[Menachem]

I wonder Mevaser(Karl) will you be participating in our messianic prophecies thread? It would be interesting to hear your take on some things....

[theseed]

Mashiakh ben David who is the King messiah will come in after the death of Mashiakh ben Yosef and usher in an era of endless peace.
So you believe that Yeshua ben Yosef was a false Messiah? Many disciples of Yeshua including myself believe that the antichristos(Greek for Anti-Christ) spoken about in the New Testament

[shunyadragon]

Hi all!

Uh...what Eli says.

I don't want to insult or offend anyone here (least of all Goose, who is courteous & a gentleman), but belief in Jesus/Ribi Yehoshua/Yeshua/Yahoshua/etc. as the Messiah, the "Son of God", an avatar of God Incarnate, a "person" within a triune God, etc. is totally, utterly, and completely incompatible with traditional, normative (i.e. orthodox) Judaism, whether of the Rabbinic or Karaite variety. (Heck, even the Samaritans would agree with us on this one!) This circle can never be squared (although we do give Mevaser an A+ for effort & stick-to-itiveness). Extremist Chabad meshugas is hardly representative of the orthodox consensus.

Be well!

ssv :hi:
I agree, and this is a big issue with Paul's impact on Christianity. I like the phrase 'you cannot triangle a circle.'

[Menachem]

So you believe that Yeshua ben Yosef was a false Messiah? Many disciples of Yeshua including myself believe that the antichristos(Greek for Anti-Christ) spoken about in the New Testament


Mashiakh ben Yosef is of the Tribe of Yosef in the Talmud... Jesus would not qualify to be that one even if he tried to say otherwise...

[Pitiricus]

I agree, and this is a big issue with Paul's impact on Christianity. I like the phrase 'you cannot triangle a circle.'
I am not sure it was Paul After all he was a Jew... But probably pagan converts to the Jesus cult who brought pagan ideas into Judaism...

[Sacrificial Ram]

Shalom Eli,

As it happens I'm writting from the Jewish perpective. But as we say: Anachnu Rotzim Mashiach Achshav (we want Mashiach Now) we never say Messiah's, only singular, so Mashiach ben Yosef, and David has to be ONE. Not two.

Mashiach has to be a decendant of David. No where in the bible says that Mashiach will be from Efraim.

As a matter of a fact, this is the view of even the Chabad movement, so they said that their Rebbe was from Yehuda, even though he suffered as Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 53! And remember that passage refers to Mashiach Ben Yosef!

Shalom Shalom

Plus who made you the Jewish authority in this matter. :blush:

I have to say that eliyosef is much more accurate on this from the Jewish
tradition than you. And, as for as Isaiah 53, the mainstream opinion of the
Rabbi's is that Isaiah 53 talks about the nation of Israel, not the messiah.
Even those rare Rabbis that do think it is the messiah do not think itis
that Yeshayahu fellow. Jesus did not meet the requiremetns for being
THE messiah that is being hoped for. There still is sin in the world.
The Torah is not the center of the worlds religion. The scattered Jews of the world have not all gone back to Israel.

[Sacrificial Ram]

So you believe that Yeshua ben Yosef was a false Messiah? Many disciples of Yeshua including myself believe that the antichristos(Greek for Anti-Christ) spoken about in the New Testament


Well, the messiah has to do certain things. This Yeshusa didn't do them.

And, it would be a failed messiah, not a false one.

You see, the Jewish Messiah is going to just be a man, not a god made flesh.
Men can inspire to greatness, and fail. There were other people who tried to
accomplish the same thing (by revolting against Rome), and came much closer
to being the messiah than Jesus, but did not succeed.

So, if the Yeshua ben Yosef even existed , he did not accomplish what the
Messiah needs to accomplish. Until someone does, they will not be acknowledged as the Messiah.

[theseed]

Seeing how Jesus Christ rose from the dead, he lives forever more to accomplish what he wants.

[theseed]

How do you know? On what basis did you draw that conclusion? What is written in The New Testament?

BTW, Yeshua is ben Myriam, not ben Yosef. Matthew clearly establishes that in his Gospel.

[shunyadragon]

I am not sure it was Paul After all he was a Jew... But probably pagan converts to the Jesus cult who brought pagan ideas into Judaism...
I do not think '. . . after all he was a Jew.' resolves his beliefs and theology presented in his letters that contributed to the establishment of the Greco-Roman church. Paul's theology has always made me uneasy. For some reason, either personal experience or based possibly on his vision on the road, he turned against the belief of a Jewish messiah and promoted a messiah of the Gentiles.

[Pitiricus]

A lot of his letters cannot be attributed to him...For instance, the epistles to Timothy and Titus, were written in Paul's name, by an unknown hand, decades after the real Paul had died. For various reasons, most scholars have concluded that the three Epistles to Timothy and Titus are post-pauline forgeries.

[theseed]

A lot of his letters cannot be attributed to him...For instance, the epistles to Timothy and Titus, were written in Paul's name, by an unknown hand, decades after the real Paul had died. For various reasons, most scholars have concluded that the three Epistles to Timothy and Titus are post-pauline forgeries.
Have you ever heard of a scribe? Paul often used one, but he often wrote his own letters has well. He wrote his own Epistles with SUCH BIG LETTERS.

[Pitiricus]

Have you ever heard of a scribe? Paul often used one, but he often wrote his own letters has well. He wrote his own Epistles with SUCH BIG LETTERS.
These are known to be pseudo-Paul... And there are others doubtful too...

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb3.htm

> It was common in ancient times for a writer to dictate an outline of their ideas to a secretary who would then compose the actual letter. The letter would thus reflect the style of the secretary more than that of the writer. It is doubtful if this practice was followed by Paul. The letters, for which there is a consensus that Paul was the author, have a similarity of style that indicates that he must have dictated his letters, word by word.

You can see which he may have written, which he didn't there too.

[theseed]

These are known to be pseudo-Paul... And there are others doubtful too...

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb3.htm

> It was common in ancient times for a writer to dictate an outline of their ideas to a secretary who would then compose the actual letter. The letter would thus reflect the style of the secretary more than that of the writer. It is doubtful if this practice was followed by Paul. The letters, for which there is a consensus that Paul was the author, have a similarity of style that indicates that he must have dictated his letters, word by word.

You can see which he may have written, which he didn't there too.
If Paul authorized something written in a letter, then the letter is valid. Luke was not an Apostle, but he worked closely with an Apostle--Paul actually.

[theseed]

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb3.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb3.htm)

The whole purpose of this article seems to be that woman's roles should changed because the bible should be changed.

Also, if Paul endorsed a PaulineEpistle, then it is Scriptural. If a NT writing does not contradict the OT, or the other Epistles and Gosepls then they are canon.

[theseed]

The whole purpose of this article seems to be that woman's roles should changed because the bible should be changed.

Also, if Paul endorsed a PaulineEpistle, then it is Scriptural. If a NT writing does not contradict the OT, or the other Epistles and Gosepls then they are canon.
IOW, authorship is not the only criteria for canonization.

[mitzi]

I know this wasn't addressed towards me, but I need to say something. If Eli is a (Orthodox) Jew, then his authority comes straight from HaShem, which is continuous from the time of Moshe. Jews (and even geiriym like myself) have authority over goyim like youself, concerning HaShem's Torah. What you talk about is "Jewish", but not of an (Orthodox) Jew perspective, as continuous from Moshe. Anyone can talk and sound Jewish, but you can only be a Jew through (Orthodox) halachaic procedures, as continuous from Moshe. Christianity is not one of these procedures.

I would like to bring this thread back to the board......would someone second this motion?

[Krusader]

I would like to bring this thread back to the board......would someone second this motion?

Oh yes, Mitzi, I second that motion. That would be a great discussion. Crusader

[mitzi]

Hi all!

Uh...what Eli says.

I don't want to insult or offend anyone here (least of all Goose, who is courteous & a gentleman), but belief in Jesus/Ribi Yehoshua/Yeshua/Yahoshua/etc. as the Messiah, the "Son of God", an avatar of God Incarnate, a "person" within a triune God, etc. is totally, utterly, and completely incompatible with traditional, normative (i.e. orthodox) Judaism, whether of the Rabbinic or Karaite variety. (Heck, even the Samaritans would agree with us on this one!) This circle can never be squared (although we do give Mevaser an A+ for effort & stick-to-itiveness). Extremist Chabad meshugas is hardly representative of the orthodox consensus.

Be well!

ssv :hi:

Ok, Crusader, should we start from this point of the conversation? And Maybe Yosh can give this conversation more substances instead of being 0% mindless rhetoric. :tongue:

[mitzi]

Leading Kabbalist Urges Jews to Israel - More Disasters Coming
15:16 Oct 19, '05 / 16 Tishrei 5766
By Baruch Gordon



On Thursday night, Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri said, "Jews must come to the land of Israel to receive our righteous Mashiach (Messiah), who has begun his influence and will reveal himself in the future."



It was during the meal after the 24-hour Yom Kippur fast that several followers approached the 104-year-old leading known Kabbalist Rabbi in Israel. A family member asked him about his remarks last month regarding natural disasters in the world. The Rabbi said that the disasters are directly related to the redemption process, which will culminate in the coming of the Mashiach.

The Rabbi added that in the near future, another wave of natural disasters will strike the world.



Rabbi Kaduri [center] and Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu [in garment on right] at cornerstone laying ceremony for Nachalat Yitzhak Yeshiva
Last week before Yom Kippur, Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri's grandson, Rabbi Yosef Kaduri had a private audience with the elder Rabbi, along with an Arutz-7 journalist who is closely linked to Kaduri's court. Rabbi Yosef Kaduri said to his grandfather, "Not many Jews are coming from overseas. Why should they come?" The Kabbalist answered, "Because of impending danger." Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri then added a quote from Deuteronomy 4:15: "Be extremely protective of your lives."

According to Rabbi Yosef Kaduri and the Arutz-7 journalist, the Kabbalist elder referred to a known esoteric concept of a "struggle between the oceans," and said that the large oceans [Haokeanus hagadol] would strike the world. Rabbi Yosef Kaduri said that grandfather's warning includes were Jews of the Americas.

The elder Rabbi Kaduri told the two that on Yom Kippur he would have more things to say.

During the afternoon Mincha prayer on Yom Kippur, the Kabbalist scholar surprised his students and fellow worshippers with secrets relating to the coming of the Mashiach. During the service, Rabbi Kaduri lowered his head and entered a deep mystical concentration which lasted uninterrupted for some 45 minutes. The Rabbi covered his eyes as though reciting the Sh'ma prayer and only his lips were seen moving.



Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri covering his eyes in concentration. (Archived photo)

Students who thought the elderly Rabbi was suffering an attack of sort tried to communicate with him, but he did not break his intense concentration for a moment, even to nod.

Only after some 45 minutes, the Rabbi raised his head and looked around the room at the students and worshippers who were gathered at his Nachalat Yitzhak Yeshiva, in the Bucharim neighborhood of Jerusalem. With a broad smile on his face familiar to his students when he has a revelation, he declared, "With the help of G-d, the soul of the Mashiach has attached itself to a person in Israel" [In the original Hebrew: 'Hit'abra bezrat hashem nishmat mashiach b'adam m'yisrael'].

At the conclusion of his short declaration, murmuring was heard among the congregants as the Kabbalists' words were repeated for those who could not hear.

Rabbi Kaduri has spoken repeatedly about the Final Redemption and referred to the calculations of the Vilna Gaon regarding the redemption, which appear in the Gaon's writings and are considered difficult to decipher.


The Vilna Gaon (1720 - 1797)
According to the writings of the Vilna Gaon, a sign of the Gog and Magog war is its breaking out on the Jewish holiday of Hoshana Rabba (the 7th day of the Sukkot holiday), just after the conclusion of the 7th or shemittah [agricultural sabbatical] year.

On September 24, 2001, Channel One Israel TV broadcast an item on what Torah and other mystics were saying in the wake of the World Trade Center attack. Speaking from the room adjacent to where Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri receives visitors, Arutz Sheva Hebrew radio showhost Yehoshua Meiri, a close confident of the Kabbalist, explained to the cameras Rabbi Kaduri's understanding of the events based on the calculations of the Vilna Gaon: "On Hashanah Rabba, the actual war of Gog and Magog will commence and will last for some seven years," said Meiri. [ Click here to view the Channel One clip in Hebrew and Rabbi Kaduri's prediction communicated by Meiri at the 1:40 minute mark.]

Precise to the minute, 13 days later on October 7th as the sun was setting and the Jewish holiday of Hoshana Rabba was ushered in, US and British forces began an aerial bombing campaign targeting Taliban forces and Al-Qaida. That year was the Hoshana Rabba just after the shemitta year of 5761.

According to the calculation, a 7-year count from that Hoshana Rabba is the date of a major revelation associated with Mashiach. Those close to Rabbi Kaduri say in his name that the 5th year of this redemption process is now beginning.

They explain that the above-mentioned "attaching" of a righteous soul to a person of Israel makes the recipient a candidate for Mashiach, but not yet the actual Mashiach. This person gets an additional soul which finds expression in the adding of a letter to his name, without changing its pronunciation. The elder Rabbi Kaduri says that the letter added to this person's name is "vav" and the secret of his power is a Star of David hidden in his attire.

Before he reached the age of 13, the young Yitzhak Kaduri studied with the renowned Rabbi Yosef Chaim (the Ben Ish Chai) of Iraq. Rabbi Kaduri tells that the Ben Ish Chai blessed him that he would live to see the revelation of the Mashiach. The Ben Ish Chai passed away, and Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri immigrated to Israel soon after.


http://www.arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=91417

and, http://www.ou.org/torah/ti/5759/vayechi59.htm


***********************************************
Here's one for Goose:
Vatican: Parts of David’s Tomb to Be Under Papal Control


An official Vatican newspaper has reported that during his upcoming visit to the Vatican, President Moshe Katsav will sign an agreement giving parts of David’s Tomb over to papal control.

Read the full article HERE

Me: Here's the offer: They can have a small patch of the tomb provided we get back our Menorah, the Tzitz of the Kohain Gadol and all our relics and holy books that are collecting dust in the basement of the Vatican. Deal?

http://hamikdash.blogspot.com/

http://www.mizrachi.org/ideas/view.asp?id=292

http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_tribe/tribes_of_israel.htm

[mitzi]

Leading Kabbalist Urges Jews to Israel - More Disasters Coming
15:16 Oct 19, '05 / 16 Tishrei 5766
By Baruch Gordon



On Thursday night, Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri said, "Jews must come to the land of Israel to receive our righteous Mashiach (Messiah), who has begun his influence and will reveal himself in the future."



It was during the meal after the 24-hour Yom Kippur fast that several followers approached the 104-year-old leading known Kabbalist Rabbi in Israel. A family member asked him about his remarks last month regarding natural disasters in the world. The Rabbi said that the disasters are directly related to the redemption process, which will culminate in the coming of the Mashiach.

The Rabbi added that in the near future, another wave of natural disasters will strike the world.



Rabbi Kaduri [center] and Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu [in garment on right] at cornerstone laying ceremony for Nachalat Yitzhak Yeshiva
Last week before Yom Kippur, Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri's grandson, Rabbi Yosef Kaduri had a private audience with the elder Rabbi, along with an Arutz-7 journalist who is closely linked to Kaduri's court. Rabbi Yosef Kaduri said to his grandfather, "Not many Jews are coming from overseas. Why should they come?" The Kabbalist answered, "Because of impending danger." Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri then added a quote from Deuteronomy 4:15: "Be extremely protective of your lives."

According to Rabbi Yosef Kaduri and the Arutz-7 journalist, the Kabbalist elder referred to a known esoteric concept of a "struggle between the oceans," and said that the large oceans [Haokeanus hagadol] would strike the world. Rabbi Yosef Kaduri said that grandfather's warning includes were Jews of the Americas.

The elder Rabbi Kaduri told the two that on Yom Kippur he would have more things to say.

During the afternoon Mincha prayer on Yom Kippur, the Kabbalist scholar surprised his students and fellow worshippers with secrets relating to the coming of the Mashiach. During the service, Rabbi Kaduri lowered his head and entered a deep mystical concentration which lasted uninterrupted for some 45 minutes. The Rabbi covered his eyes as though reciting the Sh'ma prayer and only his lips were seen moving.



Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri covering his eyes in concentration. (Archived photo)

Students who thought the elderly Rabbi was suffering an attack of sort tried to communicate with him, but he did not break his intense concentration for a moment, even to nod.

Only after some 45 minutes, the Rabbi raised his head and looked around the room at the students and worshippers who were gathered at his Nachalat Yitzhak Yeshiva, in the Bucharim neighborhood of Jerusalem. With a broad smile on his face familiar to his students when he has a revelation, he declared, "With the help of G-d, the soul of the Mashiach has attached itself to a person in Israel" [In the original Hebrew: 'Hit'abra bezrat hashem nishmat mashiach b'adam m'yisrael'].

At the conclusion of his short declaration, murmuring was heard among the congregants as the Kabbalists' words were repeated for those who could not hear.

Rabbi Kaduri has spoken repeatedly about the Final Redemption and referred to the calculations of the Vilna Gaon regarding the redemption, which appear in the Gaon's writings and are considered difficult to decipher.


The Vilna Gaon (1720 - 1797)
According to the writings of the Vilna Gaon, a sign of the Gog and Magog war is its breaking out on the Jewish holiday of Hoshana Rabba (the 7th day of the Sukkot holiday), just after the conclusion of the 7th or shemittah [agricultural sabbatical] year.

On September 24, 2001, Channel One Israel TV broadcast an item on what Torah and other mystics were saying in the wake of the World Trade Center attack. Speaking from the room adjacent to where Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri receives visitors, Arutz Sheva Hebrew radio showhost Yehoshua Meiri, a close confident of the Kabbalist, explained to the cameras Rabbi Kaduri's understanding of the events based on the calculations of the Vilna Gaon: "On Hashanah Rabba, the actual war of Gog and Magog will commence and will last for some seven years," said Meiri. [ Click here to view the Channel One clip in Hebrew and Rabbi Kaduri's prediction communicated by Meiri at the 1:40 minute mark.]

Precise to the minute, 13 days later on October 7th as the sun was setting and the Jewish holiday of Hoshana Rabba was ushered in, US and British forces began an aerial bombing campaign targeting Taliban forces and Al-Qaida. That year was the Hoshana Rabba just after the shemitta year of 5761.

According to the calculation, a 7-year count from that Hoshana Rabba is the date of a major revelation associated with Mashiach. Those close to Rabbi Kaduri say in his name that the 5th year of this redemption process is now beginning.

They explain that the above-mentioned "attaching" of a righteous soul to a person of Israel makes the recipient a candidate for Mashiach, but not yet the actual Mashiach. This person gets an additional soul which finds expression in the adding of a letter to his name, without changing its pronunciation. The elder Rabbi Kaduri says that the letter added to this person's name is "vav" and the secret of his power is a Star of David hidden in his attire.

Before he reached the age of 13, the young Yitzhak Kaduri studied with the renowned Rabbi Yosef Chaim (the Ben Ish Chai) of Iraq. Rabbi Kaduri tells that the Ben Ish Chai blessed him that he would live to see the revelation of the Mashiach. The Ben Ish Chai passed away, and Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri immigrated to Israel soon after.


http://www.arutzsheva.com/news.php3?id=91417

and, http://www.ou.org/torah/ti/5759/vayechi59.htm


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Here's one for Goose:
Vatican: Parts of David’s Tomb to Be Under Papal Control


An official Vatican newspaper has reported that during his upcoming visit to the Vatican, President Moshe Katsav will sign an agreement giving parts of David’s Tomb over to papal control.

Read the full article HERE

Me: Here's the offer: They can have a small patch of the tomb provided we get back our Menorah, the Tzitz of the Kohain Gadol and all our relics and holy books that are collecting dust in the basement of the Vatican. Deal?

http://hamikdash.blogspot.com/

http://www.mizrachi.org/ideas/view.asp?id=292

http://www.cohen-levi.org/the_tribe/tribes_of_israel.htm


Again Crusader I will have to locate the book ( I wrote about) at the Jewish Community Center and I hope you read it. Not many 'secrets' are to be uncovered and when they are.....it's a specific time. Each Kohan knows from one generation to the next...the hidden secrets of the Torah.
Mr P. my family isn't Kohans.....our family has ties to the Sanhedrin.

Mitzi

[Timothy Leary]

Ok, Crusader, should we start from this point of the conversation? And Maybe Yosh can give this conversation more substances instead of being 0% mindless rhetoric. :tongue:

Hi Mitzi,

The comment I made was not directed towards, and I apologize if you thought I was being rude to you. It was directed to this post - http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1255014&postcount=23 (showpost.php?p=1255014&postcount=23) - which sounded like a rant of "my god is better than your god nanny nanny boo boo", IMO.

[mitzi]

Hi Mitzi,

The comment I made was not directed towards, and I apologize if you thought I was being rude to you. It was directed to this post - http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1255014&postcount=23 (showpost.php?p=1255014&postcount=23) - which sounded like a rant of "my god is better than your god nanny nanny boo boo", IMO.


My deepest Apologies to you..Dead Hobbit!

[Krusader]

A lot of his letters cannot be attributed to him...For instance, the epistles to Timothy and Titus, were written in Paul's name, by an unknown hand, decades after the real Paul had died. For various reasons, most scholars have concluded that the three Epistles to Timothy and Titus are post-pauline forgeries.


This is an outright lie. Please provide your proof of this. Just because Paul used a secretary to write his letters, does not mean they came from him Many believe that Paul was partially blind - thus his use of secretaries.

[mitzi]

These are known to be pseudo-Paul... And there are others doubtful too...

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb3.htm

> It was common in ancient times for a writer to dictate an outline of their ideas to a secretary who would then compose the actual letter. The letter would thus reflect the style of the secretary more than that of the writer. It is doubtful if this practice was followed by Paul. The letters, for which there is a consensus that Paul was the author, have a similarity of style that indicates that he must have dictated his letters, word by word.

You can see which he may have written, which he didn't there too.




Then what you're saying is that part of the scripture, Paul who dictated the words by a secretary (scribe), are not Paul words, which would make them false? Again, these people weren't listed as secretaries, they were listed as scribes.....Jeremiah 36:2...and line 2: Take a scroll and write on it all the word I have spoken to you, in the days of Josiah, until today......line 4: So Jeremiah called Baruch, son of Neriah, who wrote down on a scroll, as Jeremiah dictated, all the words which the Lord had spoken to him.

Mitzi

The Apostles delivered this knowledge to the entire Church, and the Church, being the repository of this treasure thus became "the pillar and ground of the Truth" (I Timothy 3:15).

[shunyadragon]

Agreed, SSV.

I will second that, the Roman God of traditonal Christianity could never represent the messiah of the Torah.

[mitzi]

I will second that, the Roman God of traditonal Christianity could never represent the messiah of the Torah.



"The Roman God of "traditional" Christianity could never represent the Messiah of the Torah."

This traditional Christian Roman God, that you’ve so noted, was ‘never’ made with human hands! Was he? Like all Romans back then made, they made their gods out of wood & stone. Neither was this Roman God of “traditional” Christianity elected by the people (like a Caesar) nor was he worshipped within the same concept. The people of Roman & Greece, along with other countries laid their lives down so that “all” Christians may worship God in peace & in freedom. Are you saying their death was in vain? Roman’s Caesar was not “one” to share the spot light with other gods, nor with the God of the Israelites, (see the destruction of the temple) which should be obvious. No, the people that Paul preaches, within the New Testament, did “not” see God in a similar way as to their former Romans gods or Greeks gods or any other country, did they? As a matter of fact Paul stated in Acts 14:15 We proclaim to you good news that you should turn from these idols to the living God, “Who made heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them.” 16. In past generations he allowed all Gentiles to go their own ways; 17. Yet, in bestowing his goodness, He did not leave himself without witness, for he gave you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, and filled you with nourishment and gladness for you hearts,”

The Apostles (especially Paul) and their disciples taught the “Word of God” to many people of distant lands but it was the “Spirit” that was within the Word, (Spirit of Understanding, so noted, as "one" of attributes of the Spirit) helped many people to be able to accept it.


Mitzi