Protestanten: Die Wesensmerkmale

[spl_cadet]

Now that I've gotten your attention, some questions for you:
To be considered Christian, must you:
Believe in the Trinity?
Believe in OSAS?
Believe in Sola Fide?
Reject Papal Authority?
Believe in Seven Sacraments?
Believe in Two Sacraments?
Believe in no Sacraments?
Believe in Sola Scriptura?
Not pray to Mary or the Saints?
Believe that the Church is non-institutional?
Believe in a literal Hell?
And to demonstrate that I'm bored (no I didn't do it myself)...

Nun da ich Ihre Aufmerksamkeit erhalten habe, einige Fragen für Sie: Gelten als Christen, Muß Sie:
Glauben Sie an die Dreiheit?
Glauben Sie an OSAS?
Glauben Sie an Sola Fide?
Weisen Sie Papal Berechtigung Zurück?
Glauben Sie an sieben Sakramente?
Glauben Sie an zwei Sakramente?
Glauben Sie an keine Sakramente?
Glauben Sie an Sola Scriptura?
Nicht zu Mary oder zu den Heiligen beten?
Glauben Sie, daß die Kirche Nichtinstitutionell ist?
Glauben Sie an eine wörtliche Hölle?

This is for my personal research and is not to make a debate. People debating shall be bonked.
:bonk:

[GrayPilgrim]

post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=49989#post49989)
spl_cadet:[/i]

Nun da ich Ihre Aufmerksamkeit erhalten habe, einige Fragen für Sie: Gelten als Christen, Muß Sie:
Glauben Sie an die Dreiheit?
Ja, aber es nicht nur fuer Protestanten
Glauben Sie an OSAS?
Man muss nicht an es glauben, aber ich glaube an es.
Glauben Sie an Sola Fide?
Ja!
Weisen Sie Papal Berechtigung Zurück?
Es wuerde ein Problem an es zu glauben.
Glauben Sie an sieben Sakramente?
Nein, nur zwei.
Glauben Sie an zwei Sakramente?
Sieh oben.
Glauben Sie an keine Sakramente?
Christus befahl zwei, warum soll man nicht anh ihnen glauben?
Glauben Sie an Sola Scriptura?
Heiligen Schriften setzen Päpstliche Autorität zurück, darum Ja.
Nicht zu Mary oder zu den Heiligen beten?
Gott befahl man nur zu ihm beten, deshalb Ja.
Glauben Sie, daß die Kirche Nichtinstitutionell ist?
Nein, die Kirche is geistlich nicht Institutional.
Glauben Sie an eine wörtliche Hölle?
Ja, ich glaube an eine wörtliche Hölle.
Von alles, die du schriebst, muss man nur an die Trinität fuer Heil glauben.

Ich habe es mich selbst gemacht! Vieleicht werde ich es auf Englisch schreiben.

[Gavin]

gp,

lol! When I translated your reply this is what your Piper quote looked like:"You were maggot to make made of Him, need to be maggot made of." -John Piper

:rofl:

[Solly]

Today @ 05:17 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=49989#post49989)
spl_cadet:

Now that I've gotten your attention, some questions for you:
To be considered Christian, must you:
Believe in the Trinity? --Yup
Believe in OSAS? --Nope
Believe in Sola Fide? --Yup
Reject Papal Authority? --sorta Yup
Believe in Seven Sacraments? --sorta nope
Believe in Two Sacraments? --yup
Believe in no Sacraments? --nope
Believe in Sola Scriptura? --sorta yup
Not pray to Mary or the Saints? --yup
Believe that the Church is non-institutional? --sorta yup
Believe in a literal Hell? --sorta yup (what's "literal?)

[spl_cadet]

Thanks to you who have responded so far. Reading through the translation of Gray Pilgrim's response was rather amusing.
Solly, a literal hell is the literal "Fire and brimstone for all eternity" type thing.

[Wesley's son]

I ditto Solly's responses.

[Jaltus]

Now that I've gotten your attention, some questions for you:
To be considered Christian, must you:
Believe in the Trinity?
Yes.

Believe in OSAS?
No.

Believe in Sola Fide?
Yes.

Reject Papal Authority?
No.

Believe in Seven Sacraments?
No.

Believe in Two Sacraments?
Yes, at least.

Believe in no Sacraments?
No.

Believe in Sola Scriptura?
No.

Not pray to Mary or the Saints?
No, but it depends on the kind of "prayer." Worship through prayer would be idolatry.

Believe that the Church is non-institutional?
No.

Believe in a literal Hell?
Hmmmmm. Good question, but no.

[Jin-Roh]

Nur werde für Spaß, ich die gehörigste Frage auf deutsch beantworten.

Glauben Sie an OSAS?

Nein. Ich bezweifle es mich selbst.

Glauben Sie an Sola Fide?

Wie sonst werden wir gespart? Ich bevorzuge, sicher, daß ich gespart werde, zu sein, als hofft, daß ich irgendwie es verdienen kann. Jener Begriff ist einmalig zu Christenheit.

Weisen Sie Papal Berechtigung Zurück?

Siehe bitte unten.

Glauben Sie an Sola Scriptura?

Das ist eine wichtige Frage. Ich denke nicht, daß sein eine Bedingung ist, aber sehe bitte unten

Nicht zu Mary oder zu den Heiligen beten?

Warum zu Mary oder zu den Heiligen beten? Ich war Katholisch, und becuase von, daß ich nicht mehr bin. Jesus hat den vail des Tempels zerrissen, und wir brauchen keinen anderen Vermittler.

Während die Bibel sagt...
In ihm haben wir Freimütigkeit und Zugang in Zuversicht durch den Glauben an ihn.

Epheser 3:12 ELB

und..

Denn einer ist Gott, und einer ist Mittler zwischen Gott und Menschen, der Mensch Christus Jesus,

1 Timotheus 2:5 ELB

Was Sie wenn heilige Schrift und Tradition kollidieren macht, habe ich gewählt, dem Wort des Gottes zu gehorchen.

Ich bin Auslenlander und sprechen nicht gut deutsch..
Ich bin Auslenlander und sprechen nicht gut deutsch..

(Ich mußte eine Übersetzung Stelle auch benutzen. Ich habe Deutsch in Sekundärschule, aber ich hoch in der Klasse oft genommen. Der Lehrer war Art von schlecht sowieso. )

[Jin-Roh]

Und ich entschuldige mich, wenn das wie eine Debatte ertönt hat.
:bonk: :nc:

[Epoetker]

Ich liebe der Deutsch Sprache, aber ich glaube an, dass ich kann es besser sprecht als schreibt.

[Jaltus]

I am pretty sure I hate you all.

[PuritanD]

Today @ 09:14 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=50604#post50604)
Jaltus:

I am pretty sure I hate you all.

I couldn't agree with you more, Jaltus :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[GrayPilgrim]

Jaltus is just upset because he has to take German this summer. Ahh he will finally enter the land of the enlightened :tongue: :yipee: :yipee:

[Jin-Roh]

Reject Papal Authority?

Please explain this one a little more Spl. I'm not sure what I should answer becuase its a little vague.

[spl_cadet]

Simple, rejecting the authority of the pope. It's basically a "Can you be Catholic and Christian?"

[GrayPilgrim]

If you phrase the question that way, I woudl say yes you can be a catholic and saved, just as you can be a protestant and saved.


What I reject is Papal Infalibility (which is a newer dogma anyway). When the Pope speaks ex cathedra he can be and has been wrong. What Protestants historically have rejected is the equality of tradition and Scripture. We say that Scripture is the judge where the RC says that the Pope is the fianl arbiter of what Scripture says and thus implicitly is the judge of Scripture. (I know this is a gross over simplification but it is late and I want to finsih this post before I got to sleep.)

[Jin-Roh]

Yesterday @ 04:00 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=51435#post51435)
spl_cadet:

Simple, rejecting the authority of the pope. It's basically a "Can you be Catholic and Christian?"

Okay, I'm still not sure.
If by Papal authority you mean, "What the Pope says is, 'thus saith the Lord' equally or more authoritative as scripture," Than I would have to answer a solid "Yes." But if by Papal authority you mean, "The Pope is leader of the Catholic Church. He's the head of the politcal/oganizational aspects of our church, but I'm free to take what he says on spiritual matters with a grain of salt --just like any other minister." than I would answer "no".

That's what I need for clarification.

What's the research for anyway? Your website?

[spl_cadet]

Well, the pope isn't a prophet so there isn't any "thus saith the Lord" aspects to it :teeth:
But it also does include believing in papal infallibility (which is restricted to matters of faith and morals, and only used twice as I recall) since if you submit to papal authority, you are obviously submitting to the teachings of the Church.
GrayPilgrim, are you saying that those who believe in papal infallibility can't be Christian? Oh and to let you know, the two things proclaimed infallibly (Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary) were both believed by Martin Luther (http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ95.HTM) along with her perpeptual virginity. Actually, most if not all of the leaders of the Protestant Schism believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary (http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ460.HTM)

And the research is for a topic I was going to make on CARM about what the Protestants actually believe are the essentials that they all agree on, but I'll probably be posting it on my site as well.

[Woman]

Jaltus:
I am pretty sure I hate you all.


Oh dear - LOL

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

:rofl:

:teeth:

Good Heavens!!!! I laughed so hard reading this I nearly hurt something vital.

:xmm:

:lol:

[kiwimac]

04-01-2003 @ 04:17 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=#post)
spl_cadet:

Now that I've gotten your attention, some questions for you:
To be considered Christian, must you:

Believe in the Trinity?
Believe in OSAS?
Believe in Sola Fide?
Reject Papal Authority?
Believe in Seven Sacraments?
Believe in Two Sacraments?
Believe in no Sacraments?
Believe in Sola Scriptura?
Not pray to Mary or the Saints?
Believe that the Church is non-institutional?
Believe in a literal Hell?
And to demonstrate that I'm bored (no I didn't do it myself)...


This is for my personal research and is not to make a debate. People debating shall be bonked.
:bonk:

Just to put my own personal stick in the spokes -- In Dutch!


Geloof in de Drievuldigheid??

Dit is belangrijk maar niet zo belangrijk zoals geloof in de het leven uitdrukking van de wil van God, Jesus-Christus

Geloof in "zodra altijd Gespaard spaarde?"

De redding is de gift van God, aangezien wij het niet kochten, kunnen wij het verliezen niet!

In "geloof" slechts als model van redding

Het geloof laat alleen u toe om in het werk van God binnen te gaan maar uw geloof moet tot iets leiden om fruit te dragen, zodat zijn de acties ook noodzakelijk.

Moet u het gezag van de Paus verwerpen?

Als protestants, erkent I allebei de Paus aangezien "primus inter pares " onder de Bischoppen knipt maar ik erken ook dat de God me roept om mijn geloof voor mij te begrijpen, "... om mijn redding uit te werken met vrees en het beven... "

Geloof in Zeven Sacramenten?

Eigenlijk, heeft mijn Kerk Acht!: Baptism, Bevestiging, Huwelijk, Zegen van de zieken, zegen/het noemen van kinderen, Eucharist, Ordening, Evangelists' Zegen.

In geloof twee sacramenten?

Zie het bovengenoemde antwoord

In geloof geen sacramenten?

Zie het bovengenoemde antwoord

Is de Bijbel om de enige regel voor het leven te zijn?

Mijn kerk keurt de Bijbel, het Boek van Mormoon en de Doctrine en Overeenkomsten als het bevatten van de woorden van God goed. Voor mij, zie ik Christus als woord van God eerder dan een boek.

Bidt u aan Mary of de Heiligen?

Eigenlijk is mijn favoriete heilige Heilige Francis van Assisi! Ik bid voor zij die zijn gegaan alvorens me in de aanwezigheid van de God & ik hen om voor me vraag te bidden maar ik zie eenvoudig dit aangezien plicht één Christen een andere verschuldigd is.

Is de Kerk in wezen een hiërarchische structuur?

De Discipelen waren verondersteld om, geloof ik, een zo ongestructureerde groep te zijn zoals mogelijk. Een groep waarin iedereen uit voor hun buur keek en de behoeften van de buren voor hun zette. De tijden veranderen en heeft zo de behoeften van de kerk maar ik denk nog, ongestructureerd is dat beter!

Geloof in een daadwerkelijke hel?

Ik geloof niet een dergelijk geloof noodzakelijk is een christen te zijn

Kiwimac
:smile:

[Jin-Roh]

Yesterday @ 09:26 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=#post)
spl_cadet:

Well, the pope isn't a prophet so there isn't any "thus saith the Lord" aspects to it :teeth:
But it also does include believing in papal infallibility (which is restricted to matters of faith and morals, and only used twice as I recall) since if you submit to papal authority, you are obviously submitting to the teachings of the Church.

And the research is for a topic I was going to make on CARM about what the Protestants actually believe are the essentials that they all agree on, but I'll probably be posting it on my site as well.

Okay, well with everything cleared up, I'll answer in english this time.

Believe in the Trinity? - Yes. No T.D. Jakes Christians please
:teeth:
Believe in OSAS? - No. I question it myself.
Believe in Sola Fide? - Absolutely
Reject Papal Authority? - From the way you desribed it, no. Maybe in the past, but not now.
Believe in Seven Sacraments? - no
Believe in Two Sacraments? - Baptism and Communion right? I'd say yes. I wouldn't expect a new believer to worry about it though.
Believe in no Sacraments? - no
Believe in Sola Scriptura? - The plasmists equated reverence with the Word with reverence for God (Psalm 119), and Jesus rebuked the pharisees for thinking that their tradition was authoratative. I'd give a strong yes to that one.
Not pray to Mary or the Saints? - Yes.
Believe that the Church is non-institutional? - no, I believe the Church is spiritual though.
Believe in a literal Hell? - no, but there is one.

I lot of the "doctrine" things (hell, non-institutional church, and the sacraments) are things that I wouldn't hold a new believer towards. We're not saved by grace, not knowledge. So if they didn't think about these things, or even felt diffrently, I wouldn't hold it against them. Although I would attempt to show them what scripture says.

[JohnShepard]

My votes:

To be considered a Christian you must:
Believe in the Trinity? -- Yup
Believe in Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS)? -- Nope
Believe in Sola Fide? -- Nope (Catholics and Orthodox are Christians)
Reject Papal Authority? -- Nope (Catholics are Christians)
Believe in Seven Sacraments? -- Nope
Believe in Two Sacraments? -- Nope
Believe in no Sacraments? -- Nope
Believe in Sola Scriptura? -- Nope (Catholics and Orthodox are Christians)
Not pray to Mary or the Saints? -- Nope
Believe that the Church is non-institutional? -- Nope
Believe in a literal Hell? -- Yup

To be considered a Catholic you must:
Believe in the Trinity? -- Yup
Believe in OSAS? -- Nope
Believe in Sola Fide? -- Nope
Reject Papal Authority? -- Nope
Believe in Seven Sacraments? -- Yup
Believe in Two Sacraments? -- Nope
Believe in no Sacraments? -- Nope
Believe in Sola Scriptura? -- Nope
Not pray to Mary or the Saints? -- Optional, not required to pray to them
Believe that the Church is non-institutional? -- Nope. The Church has an institutional component (Mat 18:17; Titus 1:5) and a non-institutional component (the body of Christ)
Believe in a literal Hell? -- Yup

To be considered Orthodox you must:
Same as Catholic except:
Reject Papal Authority? -- Yup

Are Catholics and Orthodox Christians? -- Yup
Are Protestants in error about certain doctrines? -- Yup

[Thoughtful Monk]

Now that I've gotten your attention, some questions for you:
To be considered Christian, must you:
Believe in the Trinity?

Yes. To not believe in the Trinity would to my mind contridict too much of Christ's teachings. How can you be a follower of Christ and deny His teachings?


Believe in OSAS?
Believe in Sola Fide?
Reject Papal Authority?
Believe in Seven Sacraments?
Believe in Two Sacraments?
Believe in no Sacraments?
Believe in Sola Scriptura?

All of these have arguements each way. I have never seen a conclusive arguement for or against any of these. This I leave to individual conscious.

Not pray to Mary or the Saints?

Yes. Praying to Mary and the saints is 1. Useless...they have no special influence with God. 2. Probably idolatry.

Believe that the Church is non-institutional?
Believe in a literal Hell?
And to demonstrate that I'm bored (no I didn't do it myself)...


As two above...individual conscious.


Nun da ich Ihre Aufmerksamkeit erhalten habe, einige Fragen für Sie: Gelten als Christen, Muß Sie:
Glauben Sie an die Dreiheit?
Glauben Sie an OSAS?
Glauben Sie an Sola Fide?
Weisen Sie Papal Berechtigung Zurück?
Glauben Sie an sieben Sakramente?
Glauben Sie an zwei Sakramente?
Glauben Sie an keine Sakramente?
Glauben Sie an Sola Scriptura?
Nicht zu Mary oder zu den Heiligen beten?
Glauben Sie, daß die Kirche Nichtinstitutionell ist?
Glauben Sie an eine wörtliche Hölle?

This is for my personal research and is not to make a debate. People debating shall be bonked.
:bonk:

[Jezz]

To be considered a Catholic you must:
Believe in the Trinity? -- Yup
Believe in OSAS? -- Nope
Believe in Sola Fide? -- Nope
Reject Papal Authority? -- Nope
Believe in Seven Sacraments? -- Yup
Believe in Two Sacraments? -- Nope
Believe in no Sacraments? -- Nope
Believe in Sola Scriptura? -- Nope
Not pray to Mary or the Saints? -- Optional, not required to pray to them
Believe that the Church is non-institutional? -- Nope. The Church has an institutional component (Mat 18:17; Titus 1:5) and a non-institutional component (the body of Christ)
Believe in a literal Hell? -- Yup

To be considered Orthodox you must:
Same as Catholic except:
Reject Papal Authority? -- Yup
I disagree with this last one about Orthodoxy (or at least, would like to clarify some of your answers):

-It is a false dichotomy to say that the Church has an institutional component and a non-institutional component. The institution of the Church is the body of Christ.
-While believing in "the seven" sacraments, Orthodox believe in others as well (including what Catholics might call "sacramentals"). And we prefer to call them mysteries, not sacraments.