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simchat_torah
April 2nd 2003, 06:32 AM
Shalom to all...

The term "Brit Chadasha" in Hebrew would literally be translated "RE-newed covenant" not new covenant, thus I prefer to use the Hebrew transliteration as opposed to "New Covenant" or "New Testament"...

fyi...
I only mention this to clarify what I mean by "Brit Chadasha" (new test).

so....

without further adue, the Talmud and the Brit Chadasha:

Sanhedrin 100a, attributes to Rabbi Meir the saying: "The measure which one measures will be measured out to him."

Matthew 7:2: "The measure you give will be the measure you get."
(Rabbi Meir was born after this statement was uttered by Y'shua)



Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
--Matthew 5:7

He who is merciful to others, shall receive mercy from Heaven.
--R. Gamaliel Beribbi, 3rd century C.E., Shabbat 151b




Freely you receive, freely give.
--Matthew 10:8

Just as I teach gratuituously, so you should teach gratuitously.
--R. Judah, 299 C.E., Bekoroth 29a




Let what you say be simply yes or no.
--Matthew 5:37

Let your yes be yes, and your no be no.
--R. Abaye, died 338 C.E., Baba Metzia 49a



Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
--Matthew 23:12

He who humbles himself for the Torah in this world is magnified in the next; and he who makes himself a servant to the Torah in this world becomes free in the next.
--R. Jeremiah, died 250 C.E., Baba Metzia 85b



Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the beam that is in your own eye?
--Matthew 7:3

Do they say, take the splinter out of your eye, he will retort: "Remove the beam out of your own eye."
--R. Johanan, surnamed Bar Napha, 199-279 C.E., Baba Bathra 15b



Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
--Matthew 5:10

Be rather of the persecuted than of the persecutors.
--R. Abbahu, 279-310 C.E., Baba Kamma 93a



Do not be anxious, saying, "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?"
--Matthew 6:31

Whoever has a piece of bread in his basket and says, "What shall I eat tomorrow?" belongs only to them who are little in faith.
--R. Eliezer, died 117 C.E., Sotah 48b-




The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
--Mark 2:27

It (the Sabbath) is committed to your hands, not you to its hands.
--R. Jonathan ben Joseph, flourished after the destruction of the Temple, Yoma 85a



The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.
--Matthew 9.37

The day is short, and the work is much; and the workmen are indolent, but the reward is much; and the Master of the House is insistent.
--R. Tarfon, 120 C.E., Aboth 2:15



"…it happened that a certain heathen came before Shammai and said to him,'Take me as a proselyte, but on the condition that you teach me the entireTorah, while I stand on one foot.' Shammai instantly drove him away with a builder's measuring rod he happened to have in his hand. When the heathen
came before Hillel, Hillel said to him, 'What is hateful to you, do not do
to your fellow man. This is the entire Torah. All of it; the rest is
commentary. Go ahead and study it.'"
(Shabbat 31a)

"Then one of the scribes [in Matt. 22:34-40, the Pharisees and Sadducees; in
Lk. 10:25-28, a lawyer], who had been listening to these discussions and had
observed how well Jesus answered, came forward and asked him, "Which is the
first of all the commandments? He answered, 'The first is, 'Hear O Israel:
the L-rd our G-d is the one L-rd, and you must love the L-rd your G-d with all
your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your
strength. The second is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.'
No other commandment is greater than these.'" (Mark 12:28-31)





"At the approaching of Messiah, insolence will increase and honor will be held in contempt…The young will cause the faces of their elders to go pale, and the great will wait upon those of little worth. A son will revile his father. A daughter will rise up against her mother, a daughter-in-law
against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies will be the inmates of his own house."
(Sotah 49b; Sanhedrin 97a and Ein Ya'akov, as loc.)

"I have come to set man against father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother in law; and a man will find his enemies
under his own roof."
(Matthew 10:35-36)

"… I have come to bring dissension. From now on, a family of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother,
mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
(Luke 12:51-53)




"Abbaye asked Rabbah: What is your reason for not wanting to see him [the Messiah]? Should you say, 'Because of the birth pangs preceeding the Messiah's coming,' have we not been taught: R. Eliezer's disciples asked
him, 'What should one do to be spared the pangs of the Messiah?' 'Let him engage in study of Torah and in good deeds.'"
(Sanhedrin 98b)

"R. Isaac taught: In the year when the King Messiah reveals himself, all the kings of the nations of the earth will be agitated and frightened; they will fall upon their faces and be seized with pangs like the pangs of a woman in labor."
(PR, Piskas 35-37; Yalkut, Isa., ~499)

"For nation will go to war against nation, kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in many places; there will be famines. These are the first birth-pangs of the new age."
(Mark 13:8)


"In very truth I tell you, you will weep and mourn, but the world will be glad. But though you will be plunged in grief, your grief will be turned to joy. A woman in labor is in pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish in her joy that a child has been born
into the world."
(John 16:20-21)




"R. Yose bar Simon said: The nations of the earth will bring gifts to the
Messiah."
(MTeh 87:6)

"Jesus was born at Bethlehem in Judaea during the reign of Herod. After his
birth astrologers from the east arrived in Jerusalem, asking, where is the
new-born king of the Jews?… they set out… entering the house, they saw the
child with Mary his mother and bowed low in homage to him; they opened their
treasure chests and presented gifts to him…"
(Matthew 2:1-11)



This is not necessarily quoted in the Brit Chadasha, but it's ideas have been argued over in doctrine for some time. If we look at this quote from the Mishnah we can see deeper insight. (I'm not sure if it is discussed in the Talmud, maybe BrookLaw can give us clarity on that)
Mishnah Abot 3:15a
"Everything is forseen, adn [to everything is] free choice given."

There seems to be a false dychotomy of free will vs. predestination. What God has joined together, let no man seperate.
"Every part of YHVH's character has two wings." -Floyd McClung Jr.



Shalom,
Yafet.

GrayPilgrim
April 2nd 2003, 10:43 AM
Welcome to Tewb and thank you for startign this thread. I have spent more time in the Mishna than in the Talmud so I'll look this over closer before responding. Once again welcome.

simchat_torah
April 2nd 2003, 04:18 PM
Hey Grey,

If you have any need of particular Jewish sources, let me know... I've got a vast library, not to mention both my synagouge and Yeshiva are chalked full of resources as well.

Shalom,
Yafet.

Pilgrim
April 2nd 2003, 04:33 PM
Shalom and Shalom yafet,

Glad to have you here with us. Just curious, have you read Our father Abraham by Marvin Wilson.

Peace,
Pilgrim

simchat_torah
April 2nd 2003, 04:39 PM
No, actually I haven't... I'll hop on amazon and check it out.

-Yafet.

Pilgrim
April 2nd 2003, 05:30 PM
You can check him out at the Home Page for Gordon College (In Wenham MA.) as well. He is the Prof of Hebrew and OT there. My wife taught Hebrew as his T.A. there a few years back. The book really unites the Christian and Jewish roots.

I'm glad you are here with us. I think you will offer us some really good insights and sharpen us considerably with a very unique perspective.

Lizard
April 2nd 2003, 05:37 PM
Today @ 04:30 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=51242#post51242)
Pilgrim:

You can check him out at the Home Page for Gordon College (In Wenham MA.) as well. He is the Prof of Hebrew and OT there. My wife taught Hebrew as his T.A. there a few years back. The book really unites the Christian and Jewish roots.

I'm glad you are here with us. I think you will offer us some really good insights and sharpen us considerably with a very unique perspective.

Not to get off topic, but that sounds like a great book. I have long believed that a better understanding of Christianity can be gained by a better understanding of our Jewish roots.

Oh and welcome to tweb simchat_torah. :hi:

Gavin
April 3rd 2003, 03:22 AM
Yafet,

welcome to the forum, and I am glad to have someone with an obvious extensive knowledge of the Talmud and Judaism in general, since that is a subject of great interest to me.

Regarding your initial post, the comparisons are indeed very telling. It is especially interesting, in my opinion, that almost all of the quotations from the NT are from the gospels, especially the sermon on the mount.

What is the lesson here? Does this merely show the widespread acceptance/awareness of the teachings of Jesus at the time that the Talmud was being written?

Sincerely,
Gavin

gooner
April 4th 2003, 08:40 PM
[

<The term "Brit Chadasha" in Hebrew would literally be translated "RE-newed covenant" not new covenant, thus I prefer to use the Hebrew transliteration as opposed to "New Covenant" or "New Testament"..>

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This covenant is NOT according to the covenant at Sinai.Vines says the following;The "new"is ofton contrasted to the former;"behold the former things are come to pass and the new things do I declare........Jer31;31 employs the same nuance speaking of the New Covenant.God does not "renew"what He instituted at Sinai but makes a "better covenant built on better promises"as we read in Hebrews.

simchat_torah
April 5th 2003, 05:47 AM
Shalom gooner,

The covenant spoken of in Yirmeyahu (jeremiah) is literally translated as a 'renewed covenant'.... that the "Torah (law) would be written upon their hearts"... It's not a different law, but the Torah... if one reads hebrew, this is blazingly obvious.

You can find much about this even with a simple search on "brit chadasha".

shalom,
Yafet.

Socrates
April 5th 2003, 12:00 PM
ST:The covenant spoken of in Yirmeyahu (jeremiah) is literally translated as a 'renewed covenant'.... that the "Torah (law) would be written upon their hearts"... It's not a different law, but the Torah... if one reads hebrew, this is blazingly obvious.So when was the last time you sacrificed an animal in the Temple? Myself, I prefer to go by the Book of Hebrews

gooner
April 6th 2003, 03:27 AM
Yesterday @ 09:47 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=#post)
simchat_torah:

Shalom gooner,

The covenant spoken of in Yirmeyahu (jeremiah) is literally translated as a 'renewed covenant'.... that the "Torah (law) would be written upon their hearts"... It's not a different law, but the Torah... if one reads hebrew, this is blazingly obvious.

You can find much about this even with a simple search on "brit chadasha".

shalom,
Yafet.

The term CAN be translated as renewed but as Vine shows the context will not allow it.The "old" covenant refers to Sinai and is the 613 laws of Moses which is refered to at the end of the book of Malachi;the New Covenant is the law of Messiah because as Yirmeyahu says IT IS NOT LIKE the covenant I made with your fathers when I brought them out....etc.The Messianic Jew who wrote Hebrews 8.13,says that the Old Covenant is obsolete.Jewish Evangelism point number one...how can you keep the Torah without the Temple?The Torah is good but the New Covenant is established on Better promises.I was quoting the JPS 1917 edition(not realising how it would manifest itselfLOL)which says the same thing.

gooner
April 6th 2003, 03:30 AM
am very interested in what you have on the Talmud