Historical Christian Antisemitism

[simchat_torah]

Historical Christian Antisemitism
Read on only if
you have a strong stomach.

Here are some quotes that will burn you:
(the numbers are the years)
I have only highlighted a FEW of the things.
Beware, if you read beyond this point you may be disgusted.....


325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter
from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond
measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of
the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious
people..."


367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people
who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.


380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue;
he referred to it as
"an act pleasing to God.


415: St.Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot,
who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures
and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."


418: St.Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of
a synagogue:

"If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's
fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable
disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it
deserves."


694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of
the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen,
Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual
slavery because of their responsibility for the execution of
Jesus.


1078: The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes


1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal
of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a
second target.
As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large
numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or
die!"
12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade.
This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.


1099: The Crusaders forced all of the Jews of Jerusalem into a central
synagogue and set it on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back
into the burning building.


1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that
"the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude
because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose
death they wickedly conspire,
they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the
slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..." thus began the slavery of
Jewish people to Catholics in the 13th century.


1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews
and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in
the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished
from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries
(hmmm.... sounds familiar, eh nazis?)


1227: The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This
requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the
oval badge to a Star of David.


1347 +: Ships from the Far East carried rats into Mediterranean ports. The
rats carried the Black Death. At first, fleas spread the disease from the
rats to humans.
As the plague worsened, the germs spread from human to human. In five
years, the death toll had reached 25 million. England took 2 centuries for
its population levels to recover from the plague. People looked around for
someone to blame.
They noted that a smaller percentage of Jews than Christians caught the
disease. This was undoubtedly due to the Jewish sanitary and dietary laws,
which had been preserved from Old Testament times. Rumors circulated that
Satan was protecting the Jews and that they were paying back the Devil by
poisoning wells used by Christians. The solution was to torture, murder
and burn the Jews.

In Bavaria...12,000 Jews...perished; in the small town of Erfurt...3,000;

Rue Brule...2,000 Jews; near Tours, an immense trench was dug, filled with
blazing
wood and in a single day 160 Jews were burned." In Strausberg 2,000 Jews
were burned.
In Maintz 6,000 were killed...; in Worms 400..."
12,000 Jews were executed in Toledo.
(the list goes on and on and on... sad isn't it)


This is the last one....

1543: Martin Luther, distressed by the reluctance of Jews to convert to
Christianity wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras" :
"What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?

First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...

Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed...
They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies.

Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in
which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.

Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach
any more...

Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden
to the Jews...

Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables
of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe
keeping...

Remember,
Simchat Torah always!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
again I say rejoice

Yafet.

[jason]

Was this going anywhere ?

So some christians in the past have held opinions or done things to Jews that is somewhat ironic and was wrong.

What are you trying to prove apart from the fact that Christians are not perfect and that we are all sinners ? Which, IMO, is hardly a great revelation

Jason

[simchat_torah]

I'm not out to prove anything....

Instead, I'm merely showing why my people are harsh towards christianity. Christians have persecuted the Jews beyond belief, and because of this, they are unwilling to even consider Y'shua the Messiah.

If there are those within the Christian community who would see the history for what it is, I beileve there is a way to make amends. It will take prayer and humility, but the Jews will see the Messiah when a chrstian comes before them with a contrite and broken heart.

Shalom,
Yafet.

[John Reece]

...the Jews will see the Messiah when a chrstian comes before them with a contrite and broken heart.

So, the Jews are innocent of having crucified the Messiah, and of having stubbornly refused to recognize Him thereafter, and now the whole world must come before them with a contrite and broken heart?

[dizzle]

This should be an interesting thread. What I do not hear discussed too much though in this kind of topic though is the fact that the first persecutors of the "Christians" were "Jewish." I put those terms in quotes because at the time period I am referring to I am not sure that the distinction was culturally recognized with Christianity being viewed as a sect of Judaism.

[Socrates]

Check out Alleged Antisemitism in the New Testament (http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2483.asp) and Y-chromosomes confirm Genesis teaching about Abraham (http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2/4304news5-16-2000.asp). Clearly anti-semitism has nothing to do with Christianity, and as Dee Dee says, Judaic anti-Christianism came first.

It's also worth reminding simchat_torah that the strongest supporters of Israel are members of the conservative Christian community, so cut us some slack! It would also be worth reading Rabbi Daniel Lapin's book America's Real War. He says:

I desperately want my children to have the option of living peacefully and productively in the United States of America. I am certain that this depends on America regaining its Christian-oriented moral compass. ...

In defending Christianity in America, I am not suggesting that Jews embrace the Christian faith. ... But I am suggesting, at the very least, that Jews should stop speaking and acting as if Christian America is their enemy. I feel that all Americans who love freedom, whether or not they are religious, should be reassured, not frightened, by the reawakening of earnest Christianity throughout the land. I shall try to establish that Jews as well as other minorities have the most to fear from post-Christian Americal.

[simchat_torah]

So, the Jews are innocent of having crucified the Messiah


This is the same attitude that brought about antisemitism in the first place.

I would like to ask you this...
Which of the following was killed the Messiah?
1) The Jews
2) The Romans
3) Our Sin

IF you believe the Jews killed the Messiah, then he did not die for your sins. The Jews, Romans, and any other party involved were merely playing out the predesigned theater prophesied from the beginning of time.


so cut us some slack!


I'm not being harsh...
It just depends on where the heart lies. If anyone is interested in seeing a revival among the Jews, there must be a softening first. What the Jews see when they look at "Jesus" is a bunch of people who have killed their people under that name throughout history. How could he possibly be the Messiah?
If one has a passion to see the Jewish people as a whole find Y'shua as Messiah.... then a repentant heart must be shown to them. If you have no desire to bring about a revival with the Jews, then this post isn't for you.



I put those terms in quotes because at the time period I am referring to I am not sure that the distinction was culturally recognized with Christianity being viewed as a sect of Judaism.


Yes, there was religious persecution of the original sect of believers within Judaism.... by the way, the sect of believers were called the Nazarenes (or Netzarim in Hebrew). The Netzarim actually continued to exist within Judaism as a sect up until the 13th century.

As of recently, the Netzarim sect has been revived and is currently once again a recognized group within Judaism.

Shalom!
Yafet.

[John Reece]

This is the same attitude that brought about anti-Semitism in the first place.

I would like to ask you this...
Which of the following was killed the Messiah?
1) The Jews
2) The Romans
3) Our Sin

I was not there, so I only accept the testimony of a man who was there and who was personally designated to be a spokesman for the Messiah. Here is what he said:

Acts 2
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know-- 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24 God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25 For David says concerning him, "'I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.'
29 "Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, "'The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.'
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."

You wrote:

If there are those within the Christian community who would see the history for what it is, I believe there is a way to make amends. It will take prayer and humility, but the Jews will see the Messiah when a Christian comes before them with a contrite and broken heart.

If you wish to hold me responsible for everything done by anyone in history identified by the word “Christian”, then it would seem appropriate for me to hold you and all Jews responsible for everything done in the course of history by anyone identified by the word “Jew".

However, that is not my attitude, nor is it representative of what I believe or how I think.

I am not responsible for the history you have recited. I am responsible for nothing that would make it appropriate for me to “make amends” to the Jews or to any Jewish person.

To me, the Jews and Jewish persons are no different from anyone else: I regard and treat all the same, whatever may be their profession of faith or ancestry.

Pope John Paul II has done everything he possibly can to “make amends” to the Jews, because as the Pope he feels it is appropriate for him to do so – with prayer and humility and with a contrite and broken heart. The Jews have seen the Messiah in Pope John Paul II, but have they accepted Him in response to the approach with prayer and humility and a contrite and broken spirit?

Peace to you, and blessings,

John

[simchat_torah]

Shalom John,

I am not holding you responsible at all....

However, it depends on where you feel called. Do you feel called to witness to the Jew?

If so...

The will not listen to a christian because of the past... unless if one comes as I had stated above, with a contrite spirit and a broken heart.

If you do not feel the calling upon you to bear witness to the Jews about their messiah, then by all means, ignore this post in it's entirety.

shalom,
Yafet.

[Socrates]

Once again, ST, I remind you of Rabbi Lapin's comments advising the wider Jewish community to drop their bigoted anti-Christianity, the consistent conservative Christian support of Israel, and I'll add the way that Christians like Corrie Ten Boom hid Jews from the Nazis. So save your attempts to impose guilt-trips for some other issue.

[simchat_torah]

"...advising the wider Jewish community to drop their bigoted anti-Christianity"

I am not expressing my own personal bigotry. As well, the Jews are quite justified in this as well. The antisemetic doctrines still run rampant in christianity today. It is not a thing of the past. I am speaking doctrinally here...
However, I am flatly stating that if you (obviously not though) have a heart to witness to the Jews, the above is merely an outline of how to go about it. I can see you have no desire.


"Christians like Corrie Ten Boom hid Jews from the Nazis"

While those stories do touch my heart, they are rare and far and few inbetween. Millions of christians stood by and watched. In fact, it was Martin Luther's theology that Hitler dedicated his book, "Mein Kamphf" to. Much of what Hitler did was never spoken against by the church, and in fact, the church was used as a tool to continue the horrific genocide.


"So save your attempts to impose guilt-trips for some other issue."

1) I am not attempting to guilt trip anyone. If you feel guilty, that is the design of your own heart, not by any effort of myself.

2) The facts above still remain... Christianity for the majority of it's history blatantly persecuted the Jews, it's own founders (ie: martin luther) inspired some of the greatest antisemitism ever known, and much of this theology still exists today (ie: replacement theology)

3) There is no #3, but 1 and 2 looked so lonely all by themselves up there.

Shalom 2 u Socrates,
Yafet.

[John Reece]

simchat_torah,

Your response to Socrates is so defensive that your answers are not directly responsive to what he wrote.

He wrote: "...advising the wider Jewish community to drop their bigoted anti-Christianity"

You replied: “I am not expressing my own personal bigotry”

Socrates said nothing about personal bigotry on your part. He referred only to the bigoted anti-Christianity of the wider Jewish community.

Socrates referred to "Christians like Corrie Ten Boom hid Jews from the Nazis".

You dismiss that as though it were not representative and typical of ordinary Christians. Instead, you repeat the resentful recitation of charges against Christians, holding us to be responsible for what Hitler did.

Socrates wrote: "So save your attempts to impose guilt-trips for some other issue."

You replied: “I am not attempting to guilt trip anyone.

Oh but you have attempted to lay a guilt trip on us. Why else would you say that we need to “make amends” to Jews and “come before them with a contrite and broken heart”?

You wrote to Socrates, “If you feel guilty, that is the design of your own heart, not by any effort of myself.”

That is a gratuitous attempt to assert that Socrates has reason to “feel guilty”.

You may not realize it, but you have indeed tried to lay a guilt trip on Christians.

I would not buy that, so you changed your approach with me, and I accepted you on that basis, being willing to overlook your original approach.

But when Socrates presented objective facts to rebut your original post, you replied in a way that seems to me inappropriate and wrong.

It seems that quite a large percentage (looks to me like the majority) of the Jewish community is quite prejudiced against Christians and Christianity.

The implication of your original post is that Jews are innocent victims and Christians are guilty offenders throughout history.

You hold us responsible for the sins of others, insisting that we come before anti-Christian Jews appealing for forgiveness from them for sins we never committed.

When we object to your trying to lay a guilt trip on all Christians, including us, you then change your approach and say, “Oh no; I’m only referring to people who feel a call to witness to Jews”. But go back and read the post with which you started this thread. The thrust is clearly not what you insist it is when your hand is called on it. Socrates called your hand, but you were not able to see or admit that he was factually correct in everything he said you.

[Jin-Roh]

simchat_torah,

I'm not trying to excuse the historical chruch from persecuations of Jews, but I would say that their actions where completely out of step with Y'shua (do you mind if I do that? Some Jews might.), as well as the early Apostles, had taught.

I don't know if your already familiar with the new testement but here goes.

For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,
who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

Romans 9:3-5 NASB (Paul speaking)

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling."

Matt 23:37 NASB (Y'shua speaking)

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
" THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Romans 11:25-29 NASB (paul again)

It was A.W. Tozer who wrote that we can't call ourselves real Christains until we are following the same attitude and practices that the early Christians had. We can't say "we're Christians because we believe some of the same doctrines." There is more to it than that.

And regarding the Christains saying that the Jews crucfied the messiah, that's rather ludricris because ultimately we are all responsible for his death.

[simchat_torah]

Shalom John Reece,



Your response to Socrates is so defensive that your answers are not directly responsive to what he wrote.


I beg to differ. However, I would also say, is not his response defensive in the same right? I merely pointed out the history of Christianity towards the Jews, and he became personal with.. "So save your attempts..."
Again, I stress this is not an attempt by my own to impart guilt. Rather, do you want to know how the Jews view you when you go to preach to them?



Socrates said nothing about personal bigotry on your part.


No, but the post was addressed towards me and as well I did answer him from the standpoint of both Judaism as a whole and as well from a personal perspective (in order to clear any air that I held any personal bigotry).


Socrates referred to "Christians like Corrie Ten Boom hid Jews from the Nazis".
You dismiss that as though it were not representative and typical of ordinary Christians. Instead, you repeat the resentful recitation of charges against Christians, holding us to be responsible for what Hitler did.


I) That's correct that I dismiss it as Typical and Ordinary of Christians of that time. These stories such as Corrie Ten Boom are extremely rare. The overwhelming majority of christians stood by and did nothing. So, because of the valiant efforts of the extremely minute minority Christianity can not stand proud. Yet, every time the Holocaust is mentioned, a christian jumps to point out Corrie Ten Boom... one of only a small handful of stories. Again, I want to stress that literally millions of Christians stood by and did nothing, so it is absolutley not the typical and ordinary story of the time from a joe schmoe christian.
I applaud those who did make an effort, as few as their number be.

II) It is a historical fact that it was christian rhetoric and theology that brought about the Holocaust. The Catholic church blessed Hitler and his rise into office. It wasn't until post-fact that they spoke against what had happened. Not one single bishop or pope of the time said nary a word about what was happening. As well, protestanism is not free in this matter either. As I pointed out earlier, Hitler dedicated his book Mien Kamphf to Martin Luther, the founder of protestantism. In fact, look here at Luther's own words:


1543: Martin Luther, distressed by the reluctance of Jews to convert to Christianity wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras" :
"What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?
First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...
Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed...
They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies.
Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.
Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more...
Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to the Jews...
Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe keeping...


As you can clearly see, Hitler merely enacted out what Luther wanted to do. All of Hitler's actions were based on Christian theology and rhetoric of his day.


Socrates wrote: "So save your attempts to impose guilt-trips for some other issue."
You replied: “I am not attempting to guilt trip anyone.
Oh but you have attempted to lay a guilt trip on us. Why else would you say that we need to “make amends” to Jews and “come before them with a contrite and broken heart”?


Had you actually read any of my posts in this thread, you would see I am speaking to those who want to be missionaries of sorts to the Jews. If one wants to witness and share the gospel with a Jew, the must make amends. There has been terrible atrocities made from christianity towards the Jews, and unfortunately, all that a Jew sees when he looks upon a christian is slaughtering of the Jews in the name of "jesus".

If you have a heart to share the true messiah with a Jew, you must come without an arrogant attitude, but instead with a broken heart.

I am not guilt tripping anyone, I am sharing how to evangelize to a Jew.


But when Socrates presented objective facts...


I) I don't think they were objective
II) He did so out of defense
III) Both you and he are ignoring why I'm even sharing this with you (See above)


It seems that quite a large percentage (looks to me like the majority) of the Jewish community is quite prejudiced against Christians and Christianity.


This is very true. And also the reason why I'm sharing with you what I have....
However, I would also go a step further and state that the Jews are more than justified in their prejudice.

Allow me to share with you a personal story...
At the end of last year my synagouge had bricks thrown through the window with new testament verses tied to them. There were death threats with the picture of my Rabbi all over town. As well, there was a gaint Swatschitka painted on the back of our synagouge. This was later found to be the work of Matthew Hale, the leader of a chrstian movement. His ministry is also funded by various baptist and pentacostal organizations in our state.

This is not something that has died or gone away. Not only is christianity guilty of such things as my first post, but it still continues to this day.

This isn't something of the past.... it is still here and now.

As well, there are many theologies existing in christianity today that still spur antisemitism (go see replacement theology... I'm willing to bet whatever denomination you belong to probably still holds this doctrine... the majority of denominations still do).


At this time, I would ask that you would lay aside your hostility...
Either you are one who wants to see the Jews come to the messiah... and in that case are more than welcome to continue discussion,. or you merely want to stir contention... and in that case I do not appreciate your comments here (although I can not control anything you do, as you are free, and this is a discussion board).


Shalom to you as you weigh this out in your mind,
Yafet.

[simchat_torah]

When we object to your trying to lay a guilt trip on all Christians, including us, you then change your approach and say, “Oh no; I’m only referring to people who feel a call to witness to Jews”. But go back and read the post with which you started this thread.


I stated very little of my own words in the first post. In fact, I expressed absolutely nothing of my own in that post. I merely quoted history.

Then from my second post, and note this: before you or Socrates joined the discussion, I stated my pupose...

It will take prayer and humility, but the Jews will see the Messiah when a chrstian comes before them with a contrite and broken heart.

Now, again, I ask to lay off the hostility.

shalom,
Yafet.

[Memnon]

Let's see how tolerant the jewish nation has been towards non-jewish minorities:

"The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."
-Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983

" [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs."
-Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them
meat, they want more..."
-Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the
time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do
about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a
bottle."
-Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces,
New York Times, 14 April 1983.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."
-Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries,
June 12, 1895 entry.

"There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy."
-Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed."
-Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours."
-Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

[Memnon]

Yesterday @ 10:55 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=#post)
simchat_torah:

It will take prayer and humility, but the Jews will see the Messiah when a chrstian comes before them with a contrite and broken heart.

Shalom,
Yafet.

Do you seriously believe that? The Son of Man, the saints, and the original church fathers tried their best to convert the Jews, long before any anti-semitic attacks. Anti-semitism isn't what keeps Jews from Christianity.

[simchat_torah]

Memnom,

To your first post...

#1) None of those quotes were from religious leaders, but instead from political leaders. None of them are doctrinal statements, but rather, political ideaologies. So you are comparing apples to oranges.

#2) In reference to most of those quotes, they were said in response to Palastinian attacks. One must look at the context of these quotes.

You have to look at things in perspective. Otherwise, you can take any quote you want and twist it to your own means... as you have clearly just done.

In regards to post #2:

Acts 21:20 "After hearing this, they praised God. But then they said, "You know, dear brother, how many thousands of Jews have also believed, and they all have taken the law of Moses very to heart."

I'm sorry to break the news to you, but every single one of the first believers were Jews... thousands upon thousands upon thousands... recorded in the Book of Acts... and in subsequent history shortly there after as well.


Shalom,
Yafet.

[simchat_torah]

I was sitting back evaluating your second post again, and a new thought struck me...


Anti-semitism isn't what keeps Jews from Christianity.


and you know this .... how?

I am in the synagouge weekly.
I intimately know the hearts of the people.
Do you?

Have you taken the time to see where these poeple need to be met in order to draw them to the messiah?

Pardon my assumptions...
but I would assume you have not. That is why I have created this thread.


-Yafet.

[simchat_torah]

Allow me to put a bit of perspective on this...

About 6 years ago I worked with an inner city ministry where we reached out to teens. I took classes on how to relate to rape victims, and how to do counseling for many other types of inner city problems and situations.

Had I not had training in how to relate to rape victims, I would not have been able to so effectively reach out to them. My time there would have nearly been useless. However, because of the training I went through, I was able to be an effective counselor and witness.

I hope this helps put a perspective on the situation.

Shalom,
Yafet.

[Socrates]

Memnon:
Anti-semitism isn't what keeps Jews from Christianity.

ST replied:and you know this .... how?Mainly from the fact that the Bible states clearly that peopler reject Christ because they love darkness rather than light. As well as the fact that America as a country and much of American Christianity is strongly PRO-semitic. This makes your guilt manipulation even more pathetic.I am in the synagouge weekly.
I intimately know the hearts of the people.But not as much as Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum of Ariel Ministries www.ariel.org, so skip the pathetic Argumentum ad verecundiam fallacy (appeal to authority).

[Socrates]

ST still persists in trying to lay guilt trips on American Christians for things that neither they nor their ancestors did, although John Reece and I have amply shown up the fallacies of his arguments.

And ST persistently dismisses the widespread pro-semitism of the American Christian community. He even dismisses the role of Corrie Ten Boom in saving Jews, and ignores the Bible-believing German "Confessing Church" who stood up to Hitler even though they were persecuted. The Church that went along with Hitler was the highly liberal wing, and it's actually no accident that the Holocaust occurred in the country where liberal theology was invented.

And evidently ST has been wallowing in the athestic gutter websites that inhabit the darker hovels of the Internet, if he claims that Nazism was based on Christian theology. He ignores the strongly ANTI-Christian and evolutionary basis of Nazism, and how they planned to exterminate Christianity. See my post www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=47598#post47598

[Jin-Roh]

It is a historical fact that it was christian rhetoric and theology that brought about the Holocaust. The Catholic church blessed Hitler and his rise into office. It wasn't until post-fact that they spoke against what had happened. Not one single bishop or pope of the time said nary a word about what was happening.

Wrong. First, trying to equate Hitler with Christianity is big strawman because Christians don't usually endorse Neitsche. He "Araynized" the Church and put anybody who opposed under the pressue from the Gestapo.

As far as "not speaking out until after the fact" there's a problem with that too.
On 14 May 1937, with the assistance of Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli, the papal secretary of state who was soon to be Pope Pius XII, Pius XI drafted the encyclical Mit brennender Sorge (With Deep Anxiety). It was the first major [catholic] church document to crticize Nazism. Smuggled into Germany, it was read on Palm Sunday from every Catholic pulpit --before a single copy had fallen into Nazi hands. As Richard Pierard explains, the encyclical protested against the oppression of the church and called upon Catholics to resist the idolartrous cult of Race and State, to stand against the perversion of Christian doctrines and Morality, and to maintain theri loyalty to Christ, his Church and Rome. Hitler reacted furiously at first, but then decided to aviod a break with Rome by treating the encyclical with complete silence. Knowing that he had the support of the German Catholic lay people, Hitler simply stepped up the pressue on the churches to eliminate the possibilty of organized resistance

(Page 424 of Church History in Plain language (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0849938619/qid=1049424266/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-9604896-2477662?v=glance&s=books) by Bruce Shelly, emphasis mine)


Protestants also resisted Hitler.

Harrassed by the Gestapo and repudiated by most Protestant leaders, the Confessing Chruch led a perilous existence. In 1935 no less than seven hundred Confessional Church pastors were arrested. The movement's presence was an embarrassment to the Nazis, and its witness to Christ's Lordship over the world implicitly challenged Hitler's totalitarianism.

(pages 423-424 of the same book, emphasis mine)

finally, Hitler and his cohorts where not intrested in "Christian rhetoric or theology."

Hitler's closest advisers, Bormann, Himmler, and Heydrick, systematically worked toward the "final setlement" of the church question. The churches were to be subordinated to the new order, the clergy stripped of all privileges, and Christianity left to suffer what Hitler called "a natural death."

(page 427 of the same book, emphasis mine)

At best, the church could be accused of a kind of "compliance" with the state regarding Nazism, and like most German citizens, they didn't even know what was going on to begin with. If you want to hold the Church guilty, then you might have to hold all Germans guilty too.

Nazism had nothing to do with "Christian Doctrine, or Rhetoric." If you believe that, please cite where it comes from, chapter and verse. The only "Church/Nazism" connection was the state decieving the Church --just like the Nazi's did to the rest of the German populace.

[simchat_torah]

First, Socrates, I asked you to stop with the hostility. It is not becoming of you.

Again, I am not guilt tripping, but it would seem that avoid the issue at all costs... I have to only wonder why?

"and you know this .... how?"

Well, considering you have mocked me, when I stated:

I am in the synagouge weekly.
I intimately know the hearts of the people.


Ok, so you reject two totally authentic and plausible reasons "how I know this.."

So, How about this...
I attend a Yeshiva and am in Rabbinical training. It is my business to know the hearts of the Jewish people.

Now, as far as Fruchtenbaum is concerned...
I am quite familiar with him, and
He is:
1) a christian
2) running a chrstian organization

While I appreciate what Ariel Ministires is doing, you can not pass off their opinions as that from the Jewish side of the fence... they openly admit they are christians.

None the less, it is irrelevant....

"As well as the fact that America as a country and much of American Christianity is strongly PRO-semitic..."

One of the largest lessons G-d taught the Israelites was that of rememberance. They learned this lesson well.
The Jews remember the origins of the current christian culture, they remember the tainted history, and they still see antisemetism in christian theology today.

Granted, America supports Israel. Why? My American History professor pointed out something interesting....
Israel is our eyes and ears into the middle east. Without Israel, America would be without a clue as to what's going on over there. Essentially, political ties is why America is in bed with Israel.

However, I do see pro-Israel christians. Great and dandy...
But if you want to see the Jews turn to Y'shua...
well, by now you know the drill.

At this time I would ask that you would excuse yourself from this thread unless you agree to continue without hostility.

Shalom,
Yafet.

[Jin-Roh]

I was sitting back evaluating your second post again, and a new thought struck me...


Anti-semitism isn't what keeps Jews from Christianity.




and you know this .... how?

I am in the synagouge weekly.
I intimately know the hearts of the people.
Do you?

...and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away.
But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;

2 Corinthians 3:13-15 NASB

[Pereynol of Sheer Dread]

Yesterday @ 05:55 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=#post)
simchat_torah:


If there are those within the Christian community who would see the history for what it is, I beileve there is a way to make amends. It will take prayer and humility, but the Jews will see the Messiah when a chrstian comes before them with a contrite and broken heart.

Shalom,
Yafet.

We all should wholeheartedly endorse these words!

And we all ought to realize that they apply to everyone we desire to reach, whether they are Jews, gentiles, or anyone else....

[Socrates]

ST:First, Socrates, I asked you to stop with the hostility. It is not becoming of you.HAH, I'm not the one trying to lay guilt trips on people, in particular American Christians.Now, as far as Fruchtenbaum is concerned...
I am quite familiar with him, and
He is:
1) a christian
2) running a chrstian organization

While I appreciate what Ariel Ministires is doing, you can not pass off their opinions as that from the Jewish side of the fence... they openly admit they are christians.They are both Jewish and Christians. So their opinions are as authentically Jewish as anyone else's. After all, they follow a totally Jewish book called the New Testament, believe Y'shua is the Jewish Messiah, and follow His teachings and that of his Jewish apostles such as Peter and Paul (Kepha and Sha'ul).

Only by a totally stipulative definition of Jew that excludes being a Christian by faith can their Jewishness be denied, since they are as much descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as you. It is totally hypocritical of the non-Christian Jewish community to claim that a Jew who follows the Christian religion (i.e. believes that Y'shua is Hamashiach) is no longer a Jew, while a Jew who doesn't even believe in God is still a Jew.

And Dr Fruchtenbaum has the best method of evangelizing Jews -- show how Y'shua fits the Old Testament Messianic prophecies.

These guys are great too www.jewsforjesus.org/

[simchat_torah]

It is totally hypocritical of the non-Christian Jewish community to claim that a Jew who follows the Christian religion (i.e. believes that Y'shua is Hamashiach) is no longer a Jew, while a Jew who doesn't even believe in God is still a Jew.


I totally agree...

In fact, that very issue was addressed here:
http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2674

Shalom Socrates,
Yafet.

p.s. The difference between Ariel ministries and the Netzarim is HOW each interpret the 'NT'. shalom!

[Socrates]

Socrates:“
It is totally hypocritical of the non-Christian Jewish community to claim that a Jew who follows the Christian religion (i.e. believes that Y'shua is Hamashiach) is no longer a Jew, while a Jew who doesn't even believe in God is still a Jew.

ST:I totally agree...

In fact, that very issue was addressed here:
http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/sh...=&threadid=2674Evidently you don't agree at all, since you denied that Ariel Ministries was Jewish because they are also Christian. I claim they are BOTH. They believe that Y'shua is the OT Messiah, including the OT indications that the Messiah would be "YHVH our righteousness".

[simchat_torah]

Ariel ministries have given up their Jewish THEOLOGY and COMMUNITY with the Jews.... in that effect, I am stating that they are christian in nature, and can not relate or see the issues a Jew faces today... not that I deny their Jewish lineage (specifically Fruchtenbaum's... others involved in Ariel are not Jewish by bloodlines).

I should have been more clear on that issue... I assumed you followed what I was saying considering the context...

Shalom,
Yafet

[simchat_torah]

Andy btw, the majority of individual's involved in Ariel ministires are not Jewish by blood.... to my knowledge, Mitch and Zahvah Glasser are involved, but on a smaller scale, and the rest of the gang (that I know of) are not Jews.

Some of the leaders at the various congregations that are affiliated with Ariel are Jewish... but the overwhelming majority of congregants are not, and there is not contact with the Jewish culture or community by any of these congregations.

They are a church, with no contact to the Jewish people, and thusly do not know the issues facing the Jews, nor the hearts of the Jews in general.

**there, I clarified**

-Yafet.

[simchat_torah]

But alas, if you truly want to know what this issue is about, and from someone HIGHLY RESPECTED in both the Jewish AND Christian community...
I'd refer you to Dr. Michael Brown.
He has written an excellent book called:
Our Hands Are Stained With Blood: The Tragic Story of the "Church" and the Jewish People

He continues to debate Rabbis on television as well as radio. He has written several other books, such as:
Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus; Volumes 1-3

He has also written a whole slew of books many christians may be familiar with (especially those in the charasmatic field) such as:
Revolution - The Call to Holy War
Go and Sin No More
From Holy Laughter to Holy Fire
Let No One Deceive You
It's Time to Rock the Boat - A Call to God's People to Rise Up and Preach a Confrontational Gospel.
Whatever Happened to the Power of God - The Charismatic Church Slain in the Spirit or Down for the Count?
How Saved Are We?
The End of the American Gospel Enterprise
Israel's Divine Healer

Among many more...

He is highly well known, his teachings and historical documentation is bar none.
He currently is running ICN ministries: http://www.icnministries.org/Materials/materials.htm

and continues his involvement in the Jewish community.


Shalom,
Yafet.

[Socrates]

ST:Ariel ministries have given up their Jewish THEOLOGY No, they have been FULFILLED in their Jewish theology by believing in the true Messiah. And once again, I fail to understand what you mean by "Jewish theology". Frucht says that whenever there are two Jews, there are three opinions. So do you mean Orthodox, Conservative or Reformed Jewish theology? Orthodox Judaism is far closer Hebrew Christianity than it is to the essentially atheistic Reform Judaism. is far closer and COMMUNITY with the Jews....That is the fault of Jewish anti-Christianity, and has been ever since the Bar Kochba revolt. in that effect, I am stating that they are christian in nature, They are Christian in religion, Jewish in ethnicity, just as Reformed Jews are basically atheistic in religion and Jewish in ethnicity. and can not relate or see the issues a Jew faces today... A lot more than you. If you knew anything about his background, you'd see how arrogant your claim is.not that I deny their Jewish lineageHow generous. You just deny them the right to be called Jews. (specifically Fruchtenbaum's... others involved in Ariel are not Jewish by bloodlines).What matters is that the TEACHING is overwhelmingly by the Frucht, and another teacher was Barry Leventhal. Yes, there are gentile helpers, but they are not the ones who decide what is taught.

BTW, I thought Brown's book Our hands are stained with blood was quite good and well documented. But I still prefer the Hebrew Christian theology of Frucht to Brown's.

[gooner]

was a chief promoter of the charismatic loonacy known as Pensecola;something that Arnold Frucht would not go anywhere near.Jewish Christians have not abandoned their culture;that is an absurd notion and what is "jewish culture";is it that which is defined by the rabbis;ie yiddishkyte.Tell that to the Hassidic Jew in Stamford Hill who cut off his paotes and went to preach Jesus on the streets of Haifa.Jews 4 Jesus describe themselves as "unrepentant evangelists" to their people and Yeshua called Rabbinic Judaism a synagogue of Satan which the Apostle John reitterated when in a totally Jewish context he said that whoever denied Messiah has come in the flesh is Anti Christ.By the way I will also add that David Sterns "translation"of Galatians has completely butchered the text;as someone who was part of a messianic fellowship for 4 years I will say that I thank the Lord for my Jewish brothers in Christ such as Arnold,Jacob Prashe,Mark Surey,Tom Lorey and others who have enriched my understanding of Scripture,but there are even more nuts in the "messianic movement "than there are in the Charismatics.
BTW I love to celebrate Passover and Tabernacles and I believe in the 1000 yr millenium so ST ,I'll just say that you're going to find loads of replacementists on this site..........have fun!

[gooner]

Shabbat Shalom

[Secretary of Education - Colin the Cat]

Gotta say it TOOOOO TEMPTING:


367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people


Anyone who would make Hilary Clinton a Saint needs to be shot!! :rofl: :teeth: :lol:

[simchat_torah]

Socrates,

You have to read a little closer...
I said that "ARIEL MINISTRIES" has given up it's Jewishness... not any person...

in fact, I reaffirmed Fruchtenbaum's Jewish lineage, something no man can take away...

please read what I say a little closer.
you are so quick to jump on every word I write... it reveals your heart towards this issue and myself

shalom,
Yafet.

ps. Shabbat Shalom 2 you 2 Gooner!
I typically don't mess around on the net too much during shabbat, but today I was looking for a teaching on one of my emails and thought I'd stop by here too.... thanks gooner.

[simchat_torah]

bill, I'd find plenty of other reasons to shoot hillary... ROFLOLOL

[Socrates]

ST:I said that "ARIEL MINISTRIES" has given up it's Jewishness... not any person...And you are still wrong. True, they will not worship in most Synagogues, because why should they submit to a religion that denies that Jesus is the Messiah? Also, you accused Ariel of being a church, which they are not -- members belong to local churches in the NT pattern of Jewish and Gentile believers worshipping together. I agree with Gooner that Jacob Prasch is another Jewish believer in Jesus who is worth listening to (I don't know the others he mentions but they are probably good if they are on the same lines).

[simchat_torah]

True, they will not worship in most Synagogues, because why should they submit to a religion that denies that Jesus is the Messiah?


The early believers had no problem in not only worshipping there, but instructing all believers to continue going...

So Ariel rejects synagouges, calls themselves and proclaims to be 'christian', and very few involved are Jewish or teach Judaism theologically...

I say they are christian...

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree Socrates.

Shalom,
Yafet.

[Socrates]

Socrates:

True, they will not worship in most Synagogues, because why should they submit to a religion that denies that Jesus is the Messiah?

The early believers had no problem in not only worshipping there, but instructing all believers to continue going...Paul went there to evangelise the Jews. But today, there is no basis for this, and the New Testament is clear that believers should meet as a local Church that will exclude neither Jews nor Gentiles. Dr Fruchtenbaum explains this further in his book Hebrew Christianity.
List]So Ariel rejects synagouges, calls themselves and proclaims to be 'christian', and very few involved are Jewish or teach Judaism theologically...[/list]And your refutation of Dr Fruchtenbaum's teaching is, what? As has been pointed out, you wrongly equate "Jewishness" with Ashkenazy anti-Christian Yiddishkeit. Dr Frucht accepts the Old Testament as defining for Jewishness, not Rabbinic traditions.
I say they are christian...And I don't disagree. What I disagree with is the false claim that one cannot be both Jewish and Christian. I haven't heard you or anyone else explain why you think it's possible to be an atheistic Jew, as most Israelis seem to be.

[simchat_torah]

Paul went there to evangelise the Jews. But today, there is no basis for this, and the New Testament is clear that believers should meet as a local Church that will exclude neither Jews nor Gentiles.

I) They went to the synagouge to worship...and.... to teach.

II) There is no basis for continuing to reach out to the Jews? I'm sorry, but that's very borderline antisemetic.

III) Actually, the new believers were instructed to continue to go to synagouge, and not once did they form "churches".

IV) The word "church" is literally "called out ones" in the Greek. If you study Greek, you would also know that the Jews in the dessert were called 'ekklesia' (called out ones). It is not a new definition or term to the NT. Anyone who is called out by G-d is a part of the Ekklesia. It is not some new religion with it's own established centers of worship... that is something that came over a century and a half later.


I haven't heard you or anyone else explain why you think it's possible to be an atheistic Jew, as most Israelis seem to be.


Nor would I explain it, because just as you... I think it is wrong. heh, something we agree on.

shalom,
Yafet.

[simchat_torah]

If you study Greek, you would also know that the Jews in the dessert were called 'ekklesia'


I suppose I should clarify this....

The LSS, or Septiagint, which is the Greek version of the Tenach (OT) states the Jews were called the 'ekkelesia'.

shalom,
YAfet.

[John Reece]

Today @ 06:16 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=#post)
simchat_torah:

I suppose I should clarify this....

The LSS, or Septiagint, which is the Greek version of the Tenach (OT) states the Jews were called the 'ekkelesia'.

shalom,
YAfet.

Is LSS a Jewish version of LXX?

[simchat_torah]

HAHAHAHAHA....

Thanks John.....


I posted that really late at night, and I guess I got the acronyms from DSS (dead sea scrolls) and LXX (sept.) transposed.... lol

thanks for being sharp as a tack John.
-Yafet.

[gooner]

and a Gentile distinctive in the Body of Christ BUT we should fellowship together as one new man.Ethnic churches are wrong full stop.I have a Nigerian friend who puts it very well;he says ......my culture is idol worship;should I now try to "contextualize "my faith?It is the same for ANY ethnic group.The church is the ONE PLACE where culture must be subordinated to the fellowship of the Saints.The "culture" of the NT church is revealed in the NT.

[dizzle]

Dear Simchat:

I hope you do not take my post as hostile. I love your participation here and I want it to be pleasant for you.

As well, there are many theologies existing in christianity today that still spur antisemitism (go see replacement theology... I'm willing to bet whatever denomination you belong to probably still holds this doctrine... the majority of denominations still do).


I take some offense at this characterzation. You probably would consider me a replacment theologian (though I do not claim that label myself). I am not antisemitic. I am so proud of the Jewish roots of my faith that I incorporate Jewish symbolism into my daily life and study Jewish history and lore with respect. However, you would probably label me a replacment theologian. Do not be so quick to braod brush a whole group of people as antisemitic because you do not like their theology, isn't that just as bad as what you are combating? I do not appreciate being broadbrushed by many people in that fashion. I hold my convictions do to my belief that this what the NT teaches and I used to be very mainline dispensational.

I witness very much to Jewish people, but I do not appeal to Jewish pride (we all have pride that was not a slur) by telling the that they chosen above all people, for in unbeleif they are not. They must join to their Messiah to regain that position which I as a Gentile share with them in full equality never to be separted again.

As Kenneth Gentry said, "No, I do not believe the Jews will rule the eath in a future millennium, that makes me antisemitic? I also do not beleive the Italians will rule the earth either, does that make me anti-Italian?"

It is the meek, Jew and Gentile, that will rule the earth as the ONE people of God.

Shalom my brother in Christ....

[MuggleOrSquib]

Argh!
While there was a bit of persecution of the early Jewish Christians by the Jews, the church seems to have inherited the Roman and Syrian pagan anti-Semitism. Simchat-Torah somewhat overstates the case, but the history of the dealings of Christians with Jews and the Jewish community have tended to be very poor.

On the other hand, apparently individual Christians over the centuries have apparently been friendly and supportive to the local Jewish community. This I base on the prohibitions and sermons over the years against just such friendship.

In regards to Jewish intolerance:
While the Ashkenazi Zionist community in the US and Israel has been rather intolerant of other ethnicities, many in the Jewish community have been far more open and supportive. For instance (an instance I only read of last year) Martin Buber, in the 1930s, tried to build support for a bi-ethnic state, rather than the predominately Jewish state which actually came into existence. Buber's preferences were rejected by the majority of the Ashkenazi Jewish community at the time, but were hardly un-Jewish.

-------

As a gentile Christian, I am ashamed of the actions of many of my predecessors in Christianity. I do believe on the other hand that Christian anti-Semitism is not an isolated phenomenon, and is not radically different from anti-Sikh and anti-Moslem beliefs and actions in India, the persecution of Armenians and Assyrians in the Middle East, and the treatment of various aboriginal peoples around the world.

As to Peter's sermon in Acts 2, I believe that most of the audience could be argued to have been present a mere 50 days before, at the Passover celebration in Jerusalem. It is of more interest whether Jews who were not likely to have been present were similarly addressed. I believe (and can check) that a search through the sermons in the book of Acts will show that those Jews who would not be presumed to have been in Jerusalem that Passover were not addressed as responsible for the death of Jesus.

Going back to early Christian anti-Semitism, which finds its first clear voice with Ignatius of Antioch---a devout Russian Orthodox friend has informed me of pre-Christian Syrian anti-Semitism (by which is meant anti-Judaism) which the early Syrian gentile Christians brought into Christianity with them. Given the anti-Jewish riots in Alexandria, I believe we can find evidence of Greco-Egyptian anti-Semitism as well. Since the major centers of early gentile Christianity were Antioch and Alexandria, we have many of the early Christian thinkers coming from anti-Semitic backgrounds.

My apologies to all for the disjointed nature of this post. The issue is complex, and tends to be over-simplified. I, on the other hand, am simple, so I tend to complicate things.

Bob Griffin