Patriarchal Blessing Interviews?

[Xmansmommy]

Just had an interesting conversation in the LDS Yahoo chat room regarding Patriarchal blessings. I recieved my blessing back in 1999 and was discussing the interview that I had with the patriarch who did my blessing. During this interview which lasted somewhere between 1/2 hour and 45 minutes, he asked me very direct and personal questions regarding my past, my family, etc. Of course I answered them honestly and then after this interview he laid his hands on my head and gave me my blessing. I am curious if any of the LDS members here on TWeb have had their PB and if so, did you also have an interview before your blessing? Thanks in advance.

[John Powell]

XMANSMOMMY:
I am curious if any of the LDS members here on TWeb have had their PB and if so, did you also have an interview before your blessing? Thanks in advance.

POWELL:
Yes. Yes.

I believe it's standard operating procedure to have an interview before the blessing.

John Powell

[Xmansmommy]

Is it something they are still doing JP do you know? As I said, I was in a LDS chat and everyone there said they never had one and they thought I was lying because I said I had one. :noid:

[Xmansmommy]

I always thought it was odd for him to ask personal questions and then basically tell me everything I already knew regarding my life. Nothing outstanding or spectacular about my blessing. Was that also your experience John?

[John Powell]

XMANSMOMMY:
Is it something they are still doing JP do you know?


POWELL:
For sure.

XMANSMOMMY:
As I said, I was in a LDS chat and everyone there said they never had one and they thought I was lying because I said I had one.


POWELL:
Were you talking to teenagers or adults? We were encouraged to wait until we were rather mature, say shortly before going on the mission or to college.

XMANSMOMMY:
I always thought it was odd for him to ask personal questions and then basically tell me everything I already knew regarding my life. Nothing outstanding or spectacular about my blessing. Was that also your experience John?


POWELL:
Pretty much. Presumably, the patriarch tries to give the recipient a blessing that the patriarch feels inspired to give, but within reason. It would be kind of foolish to promise that you'd be a parent, for example, if you were biologically infertile. They surely would like to know things like that before making grandiose promises.

A similar thing apparently happens with mission calls. Those too are supposed to be heavily inspired. Although people with no foreign language training presumably sometimes get called to foreign speaking missions, it's my understanding that your chances are much higher to get a foreign speaking mission if you put down that you took some foreign language in school.

When I was divorced and God didn't seem to be doing much to help me get remarried, I wondered how I was going to fulfill the promise in my patriarchal blessing that I would be a great father. I concluded that it was pretty much ALL up to me. As far as I could tell, God didn't significantly care whether I was or was not a father and whether I lived or died. That, however, was NOT the kind of God I had believed in.

John Powell

[Xmansmommy]

POWELL:
For sure.

Ok thanks. Thought maybe they changed the way they did it or something.

POWELL:
Were you talking to teenagers or adults? We were encouraged to wait until we were rather mature, say shortly before going on the mission or to college.

The people I was talking to were adults. Some lifelong members, some converts.

POWELL:
Pretty much. Presumably, the patriarch tries to give the recipient a blessing that the patriarch feels inspired to give, but within reason. It would be kind of foolish to promise that you'd be a parent, for example, if you were biologically infertile. They surely would like to know things like that before making grandiose promises.

:wink:

A similar thing apparently happens with mission calls. Those too are supposed to be heavily inspired. Although people with no foreign language training presumably sometimes get called to foreign speaking missions, it's my understanding that your chances are much higher to get a foreign speaking mission if you put down that you took some foreign language in school.

I've heard that before too. :doh:

When I was divorced and God didn't seem to be doing much to help me get remarried, I wondered how I was going to fulfill the promise in my patriarchal blessing that I would be a great father. I concluded that it was pretty much ALL up to me. As far as I could tell, God didn't significantly care whether I was or was not a father and whether I lived or died. That, however, was NOT the kind of God I had believed in.

John Powell

Thanks John for your openess regarding your experiences as a Mormon. I find it very helpful often. :smile:

[Bill the Cat]

I see no scriptural justification for a "patriarch" blessing anyone other than his own biological sons. How do the LDS get around this?

[Xmansmommy]

:nsm:

[Xmansmommy]

Matter of fact :btc:, I don't recall daughters receiving a PB in scripture, do you?

[Bill the Cat]

there are actually very few PB's given in scripture, and they were mostly pre exodus and to the sons. There are absolutely no PBs in the NT because God now is the direct giver of blessings, not our father.

[Xmansmommy]

Would love to see an LDS member address your comments. :smile:

[John Powell]

JOHN MORMON:
Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


JOHN MORMON:
Even if there were no examples in the Bible of women getting patriarchal blessings, that would not justify God's people refusing to obey His command to do so in modern times.

Some of you apparently are the kind of Christian who would refuse to obey God's commands given in modern times because you can't find a clear example of it in the Bible. If Moses acted that way then we would never have had the Bible. Well, actually, Moses would have been replaced with someone who would obey.

God's promises to Eve could constitute what Mormons think of a patriarchal blessing to a woman. It's an example to us. Likewise, God's words through an angel to Sarah and Mary.

Jesus's blessings on the heads of the children (presumably including girls) could constitute what Mormons think of patriarchal blessings.

John Powell

[Bill the Cat]

JOHN MORMON:
Even if there were no examples in the Bible of women getting patriarchal blessings, that would not justify God's people refusing to obey His command to do so in modern times.

Which begs the question of whether Mormons actually hear from the Biblical God. We have one thing in common, a belief that the Bible is God's instruction. The only commonality we have says nothing to patriarchal blessings to women

Some of you apparently are the kind of Christian who would refuse to obey God's commands given in modern times because you can't find a clear example of it in the Bible.

Give me one example of something God didn't order in the Bible that is accepted by orthodox Christianity throughout history.

If Moses acted that way then we would never have had the Bible. Well, actually, Moses would have been replaced with someone who would obey.


Mormons ain't Moses! Moses never claimed to be God's only mouthpiece. Aaron was there and God visibly and unmistakably showed approval of Moses to "ALL THE ASSEMBLY" Has God shown the same approval to Gordon Hinckley to all the assembly of Christians? I for one of the assembly can resoundingly say no!


God's promises to Eve could constitute what Mormons think of a patriarchal blessing to a woman.

God blessing someone and a natural father blessing their sons are two entirely different things.

It's an example to us. Likewise, God's words through an angel to Sarah and Mary.

Was in no way the same as a patriarchal blessing. A patriarch would lay hands on their sons and pray over them. Gabriel nor the Angel of the Lord laid hands on Mary or Sarah.

Jesus's blessings on the heads of the children (presumably including girls) could constitute what Mormons think of patriarchal blessings.

So a child under the age of accountability can get a PB? Doubt it. Plus, it's not the same as a PB. Jesus was not their birth father so could not bestow a PB on them. Jesus blessed the "peacemakers" and the "poor", etc. A PB was strictly between a father and his sons.

[John Powell]

JOHN MORMON:
Even if there were no examples in the Bible of women getting patriarchal blessings, that would not justify God's people refusing to obey His command to do so in modern times.

BillTheCat:
Which begs the question of whether Mormons actually hear from the Biblical God. We have one thing in common, a belief that the Bible is God's instruction. The only commonality we have says nothing to patriarchal blessings to women


JOHN MORMON:
But, Bill, *IF* God were to command your church to give patriarchal blessings to women would your church do it or would your church refuse because they couldn't find it clearly taught in the Bible?

JOHN MORMON:
Some of you apparently are the kind of Christian who would refuse to obey God's commands given in modern times because you can't find a clear example of it in the Bible.

BillTheCat:
Give me one example of something God didn't order in the Bible that is accepted by orthodox Christianity throughout history.


JOHN MORMON:
Well gee, Bill, that's a long time. There could have been a lot of changes since then. Some things accepted early on, but rejected later, or rejected early on but accepted later. How about if I indicate something that has been accepted by orthodox Christianity since about the same time as Mormonism has been around, eh, that God did not order in the Bible?

Make slavery illegal.
Treat women as equal to men.
Reduce or restrain religious authority in secular governments.

JOHN MORMON:
If Moses acted that way then we would never have had the Bible. Well, actually, Moses would have been replaced with someone who would obey.

BillTheCat:
Mormons ain't Moses! Moses never claimed to be God's only mouthpiece. Aaron was there and God visibly and unmistakably showed approval of Moses to "ALL THE ASSEMBLY" Has God shown the same approval to Gordon Hinckley to all the assembly of Christians? I for one of the assembly can resoundingly say no!


JOHN MORMON:
We think God has shown sufficient approval. God didn't show as much outward approval towards every prophet that He did to Moses.

JOHN MORMON:
God's promises to Eve could constitute what Mormons think of a patriarchal blessing to a woman.

BillTheCat:
God blessing someone and a natural father blessing their sons are two entirely different things.


POWELL:
Different but similar.

JOHN MORMON:
It's an example to us. Likewise, God's words through an angel to Sarah and Mary.

BillTheCat:
Was in no way the same as a patriarchal blessing. A patriarch would lay hands on their sons and pray over them. Gabriel nor the Angel of the Lord laid hands on Mary or Sarah.


POWELL:
Perhaps not.

JOHN MORMON:
Jesus's blessings on the heads of the children (presumably including girls) could constitute what Mormons think of patriarchal blessings.

BillTheCat:
So a child under the age of accountability can get a PB? Doubt it. Plus, it's not the same as a PB. Jesus was not their birth father so could not bestow a PB on them. Jesus blessed the "peacemakers" and the "poor", etc. A PB was strictly between a father and his sons.


JOHN MORMON:
Great, Bill. Then to be consistent you should argue that God should NOT be called "Our Father which art in heaven" because God is NOT our biological father! On the other hand, if God IS our Father then He surely CAN give Father's blessings, yes?

John Powell

[Bill the Cat]

JOHN MORMON:
But, Bill, *IF* God were to command your church to give patriarchal blessings to women would your church do it or would your church refuse because they couldn't find it clearly taught in the Bible?
Yes. Anyone can claim God told him or her to do something. If God told Gordon Hinckley to order all the Mormons in the world to drink cyanide laced Kool-Aid, would you do it just because the “prophet” said God ordered it, or would you check the Scriptures to make sure God would order such a thing? Please answer as John Mormon. :wink:

JOHN MORMON:
Well gee, Bill, that's a long time. There could have been a lot of changes since then. Some things accepted early on, but rejected later, or rejected early on but accepted later. How about if I indicate something that has been accepted by orthodox Christianity since about the same time as Mormonism has been around, eh, that God did not order in the Bible?

Let’s look Biblically one by one, OK?
Make slavery illegal.
It’s a legal issue, not a scriptural issue. For Christians, we desire all men to be free, but servitude still exists today. Just as I am a slave for Christ, so are all Christians. That slavery will never be abolished.
Treat women as equal to men.
There is still some inequality in the home. The man is still the head of the family. Socially, I don’t think God is as concerned about women working as we are.
Reduce or restrain religious authority in secular governments.
That’s not the desire of Christians, I can assure you, at least those I am familiar with.

JOHN MORMON:
We think God has shown sufficient approval. God didn't show as much outward approval towards every prophet that He did to Moses.
While true, those prophets were judged as speaking directly for God and their words were always compared with the plumb line of the Torah. LDS prophets completely go against the Scriptures when they teach LDS doctrine that Jesus most certainly did not teach His disciples. Joseph Smith couldn’t even tell the difference between a revelation from God and one from the Devil.


JOHN MORMON:
Great, Bill. Then to be consistent you should argue that God should NOT be called "Our Father which art in heaven" because God is NOT our biological father! On the other hand, if God IS our Father then He surely CAN give Father's blessings, yes?

God is not our Father in our begetting. Jesus is the ONLY begotten of the Father. His blessings are so much more than a simple Patriarchal Blessing. Also, if we look at the few instances in the OT of Patriarchal Blessings, we’ll see a pattern:

All were from a biological father to his biological sons and all were made very near the patriarch’s death. Are the LDS church patriarchal blessings in this mold? Not even close. It’s just one more example of the LDS church taking a biblical word and making it mean something else.

[Xmansmommy]

What was the nature of the blessing that Jacob gave to Pharaoh in Genesis 47:10?

[Darth_Bill]

>If God told Gordon Hinckley to order all the Mormons in the world to drink cyanide laced Kool-Aid, would you do it just because the “prophet” said God ordered it, or would you check the Scriptures to make sure God would order such a thing?

When it happens, I'll look into it. Until then, it is just an exercise of the mind, and not one that will realistically happen. Why waste my time?

>It’s a legal issue, not a scriptural issue.

The SBC was created by this issue. It certianly was a scriptural issue two centuries ago. How soon we forget.

>There is still some inequality in the home. The man is still the head of the family.

Ooh. That whole patriarchy issue coming up again. I thought that was being rejected here?

>That’s not the desire of Christians, I can assure you, at least those I am familiar with.

Let's see what you say when the muslims come calling, shall we? This was a great motivator of the whole reformationist movement. Theocracy is fine, as long as you are in the winning party.

>While true, those prophets were judged as speaking directly for God and their words were always compared with the plumb line of the Torah.

Until Jesus told them what for. It is written....but I say.... He kind of threw that comparison to the scriptures out the window.

>Jesus is the ONLY begotten of the Father.

I don't think that is in dispute. However, it was Paul who even declared that those heathen on Mars Hill were offspring of God. Perhaps you need to think of more possibilites on the nature of our relationship to God.

[just Johnna]

I see no scriptural justification for a "patriarch" blessing anyone other than his own biological sons. How do the LDS get around this?

The Eastern Orthodox have an office of Patriarch...where do they get it?

~Johnna

[just Johnna]

Is it something they are still doing JP do you know? As I said, I was in a LDS chat and everyone there said they never had one and they thought I was lying because I said I had one.

I am curious if any of the LDS members here on TWeb have had their PB and if so, did you also have an interview before your blessing? Thanks in advance.





Hiya!

I had my Patriarchal Blessing in 1984; I was a freshman at BYU. The Patriarch chatted with me first to get to know me a little. I was so emotional about finally getting my blessing he kept misunderstanding me--he thought I said my mother had died and I had to correct him. By the time he was going to give me the blessing, I was beginning to worry if I could have thrown him off, since he sure kept misunderstanding me. But the blessing was fine, though in retrospect I sure wished I had waiting till I was home for the summer and had my own Patriarch give me the blessing, that would have been nice.
I think especially in situations where the Patriarch is basically a stranger, it would be pretty normal to talk first. 'Course, it calls for understanding on our part when those who serve lack social graces--I'm would guess the game of 20 questions looks even worse to you now you're on to other things.

Johnna

[Bill the Cat]

The Eastern Orthodox have an office of Patriarch...where do they get it?

~Johnna

And the scriptural justification, once again, is where? Patriarchs were fathers and their blessings were reserved for their sons.

:btc2:

[just Johnna]

I see no scriptural justification for a "patriarch" blessing anyone other than his own biological sons. How do the LDS get around this?

....And the scriptural justification, once again, is where? Patriarchs were fathers and their blessings were reserved for their sons.

I'm here at TWeb as a follow-up to a Bible study I'm taking. We're in Acts now, so one of the differences on my mind right now is how other Christian churches do leadership or get the work done (as opposed to priesthood authority and callings the way I understand it.) So I have a sincere interest in the development and meaning of "Patriarch" in a church, AND I was throwing off a joke answer.

I guess it's not funny. :uhoh:

Besides the father-son blessings referenced in the Bible, we lds would look at D&C 124:91-92, and verse 124, which approves the ordination of Hyrum to be the second patriarch to the church. Joseph's previous ordination of the first patriarch, his father, and other patriarchs, would be accepted as part of the restoration.

This is how the office developed historically:

During the Kirtland period, Joseph ordained his father Joseph Smith Sr. to be patriarch, to his own family and to the fatherless in the church, and to give patriarchal blessings. That would have covered a great deal of the church community: many had relocated to join this community, also many had joined (some locally in Ohio) but their fathers had not.

Father Joseph (as he was called) was beloved in the community. He led the weekly Thursday fast meetings and was well known. He died during the early settling of Nauvoo, in September 1840. Section 124, acknowledging Hyrum's ordination to the office, is received in early 1841.

Also during the Kirtland period, Brother Joseph ordains John Young as a patriarch, possibly before Joseph Sr. Isaac Morley was ordained a patriarch in 1837. Isaac Morley was already a father figure to many--at least two years before the church moves to Kirtland (1831), he had made his farm a place where Christians could live with all things in common following Acts 2:44-45, and Alexander Campbell. There were 50-60 people living on what had been the Morley Farm, and they were called the Big Family.

We do see patriarchs other than the Patriach to the Church from the beginning in Kirtland, I would guess Stake Patriarchs developed from that--that would be a topic of research.
There's a book called Lost Legacy: The Mormon office of Presiding Patriarch by Bates and Smith that examines the history of the office and probably makes arguments about its theology in a mormon setting.

Blessings like Jacob and Joseph's are also about their ordination/right to lead, which is why they are necessarily public and provided for our study. I see the wide availability of patriarchal blessings of today as congruent to the pattern of wide ordination in the priesthood today.

[Wadewalrus]

Yes. Anyone can claim God told him or her to do something. If God told Gordon Hinckley to order all the Mormons in the world to drink cyanide laced Kool-Aid, would you do it just because the “prophet” said God ordered it, or would you check the Scriptures to make sure God would order such a thing? Please answer as John Mormon. :wink:


Let’s look Biblically one by one, OK?

It’s a legal issue, not a scriptural issue. For Christians, we desire all men to be free, but servitude still exists today. Just as I am a slave for Christ, so are all Christians. That slavery will never be abolished.

There is still some inequality in the home. The man is still the head of the family. Socially, I don’t think God is as concerned about women working as we are.

That’s not the desire of Christians, I can assure you, at least those I am familiar with.


While true, those prophets were judged as speaking directly for God and their words were always compared with the plumb line of the Torah. LDS prophets completely go against the Scriptures when they teach LDS doctrine that Jesus most certainly did not teach His disciples. Joseph Smith couldn’t even tell the difference between a revelation from God and one from the Devil.




God is not our Father in our begetting. Jesus is the ONLY begotten of the Father. His blessings are so much more than a simple Patriarchal Blessing. Also, if we look at the few instances in the OT of Patriarchal Blessings, we’ll see a pattern:

All were from a biological father to his biological sons and all were made very near the patriarch’s death. Are the LDS church patriarchal blessings in this mold? Not even close. It’s just one more example of the LDS church taking a biblical word and making it mean something else.


Ok, in response to this, I want you to know that our Father, who HArt in Heaven, speaks with Gordon B. Hinxley 'on a totally regalr basis. And I'm telling you, I speak the truth of the mormons when I say that. -Wade Shupe.

[Krusader]

Ok, in response to this, I want you to know that our Father, who HArt in Heaven, speaks with Gordon B. Hinxley 'on a totally regalr basis. And I'm telling you, I speak the truth of the mormons when I say that. -Wade Shupe.

Somebody is speaking to Hinkley, but I doubt it's God. And the late President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator Kimball must have had a real communication problem when Hoffman (the convicted murderer) sold him so many bogus documents!