What if the rapture had already taken place?

[Magdalenbrother]

I've just finished a book by a present-day shaman. It's called the FACE OF POWER. In the last chapter, the author has a fascinating explanation for the sudden disappearance of some old civilizations: he says that they all went into the 'dreaming world' under the guidance of their leaders, who practised the art of going in trance to other dimensions of reality as an integral part of their royal functions.

What if rapture had already happened several times in history at appointed favorable moments (star conjunctions and the like) known only to the initiates? The number of people involved in each case would be very limited and would leave no trace in history. We know of individual raptures before the coming of Jesus (Elijah and Enoch ascended to heaven without dying). Could such isolated raptures still occur to-day?

Is the kingdom of God described by Jesus another dimension wher he rules and where he takes the people who follow his commandments?

[Ted]

How do I make my horror at your suggestion adequately known to you? This is a classic case of new age mysticism. The disappearance of these various civilizations has reasonable ordinary explanations. The fact that some of them are not fully known due to the lack of records is fertile ground for new agers. They invent "explanations" to suit their fantasies. The Urantia Book is another of these.

The evidence for Jesus' death. burial, and resurrection is far more complete than almost any other event of its era. After all, we have a number of eyewitness accounts preserved. You are going to have to decide whether you will believe the testimony of scripture or not. If you accept Christ, then his word must be your rule of faith and conduct. And that word promises an earth made new where we will live forever.

It's up to you. It's Jesus' way or death.

[jwkenne]

I've just finished a book by a present-day shaman. It's called the FACE OF POWER. In the last chapter, the author has a fascinating explanation for the sudden disappearance of some old civilizations: he says that they all went into the 'dreaming world' under the guidance of their leaders, who practised the art of going in trance to other dimensions of reality as an integral part of their royal functions.

What if rapture had already happened several times in history at appointed favorable moments (star conjunctions and the like) known only to the initiates? The number of people involved in each case would be very limited and would leave no trace in history. We know of individual raptures before the coming of Jesus (Elijah and Enoch ascended to heaven without dying). Could such isolated raptures still occur to-day?

Is the kingdom of God described by Jesus another dimension wher he rules and where he takes the people who follow his commandments?

Was this meant as a joke? You know, I have also been called a "present day Shaman." Do you want to send me some money?

[WebToaster]

How do I make my horror at your suggestion adequately known to you? This is a classic case of new age mysticism.
Yes, Magdalenbrother in the future please stick to old age mysticism. Further explorations into new age mysticism will result in your death and eternal damnation.

[Macarthur]

So Toaster & Ted are much more fond of "old age" mysticism than new age mysticism. If you believe certain stories in the Bible to be true (especially the really supernatural OT stuff), then why should these things logically not happen today. I'm not saying I believe any of this new age stuff. All I'm saying is why do we not have these things happening today that happened in the OT & early AD times?

You know, Paul had a vision of Jesus and we "worship" him to some extent. When people today say they have visions of Jesus we either put them in detox or in a nut house.

Abraham was told by God to sacrifice his son and we adore his faith. Andrea Yeats kills her children because God told her and we kill her.

I'm being facetious to an extent, but my point is that why should we be so quick to dismiss. When was the last book of the Bible written? Are we so sure that God has "stopped" talking to us?

[jwkenne]

So Toaster & Ted are much more fond of "old age" mysticism than new age mysticism. If you believe certain stories in the Bible to be true (especially the really supernatural OT stuff), then why should these things logically not happen today. I'm not saying I believe any of this new age stuff. All I'm saying is why do we not have these things happening today that happened in the OT & early AD times?

You know, Paul had a vision of Jesus and we "worship" him to some extent. When people today say they have visions of Jesus we either put them in detox or in a nut house.

Abraham was told by God to sacrifice his son and we adore his faith. Andrea Yeats kills her children because God told her and we kill her.

I'm being facetious to an extent, but my point is that why should we be so quick to dismiss. When was the last book of the Bible written? Are we so sure that God has "stopped" talking to us?

I think some of the explanation lies in the fact that Paul was persecuted for his faith, while "modern day shamans" like this one are selling books for profit for their faith. Also, the book in reference here is plainly the same old revisionist history with a new age spin thing that is semi-popular these days.

[WebToaster]

I'm being facetious to an extent, but my point is that why should we be so quick to dismiss. When was the last book of the Bible written? Are we so sure that God has "stopped" talking to us?
Those people to whom God has currently spoken are caged up in padded rooms and labeled schizophrenics. Let's be honest, if your aunt Gertrude claimed an exclusive revelation from God, would you proclaim her a prophet, or have her banished to Happy Acres?

[Macarthur]

WebToaster, I'm glad someone caught my sarcasm. Does anyone think that Paul did nothing to benefit himself? Paul did write a book about his experience. He didn't get a $10 million advance, but he had definately benefited over the centuries. Don't think for a minute he wouldn't have benefited financially if he didn't have a chance.

I have this thing about Paul. I have no way of knowing whether his "experience" is true or not. What I have a problem with is how so many churches these days spend way too much time talking about what Paul said instead of what Jesus said. If you go to some churches, you would think their official religion is Paulianity.

[jwkenne]

WebToaster, I'm glad someone caught my sarcasm. Does anyone think that Paul did nothing to benefit himself? Paul did write a book about his experience. He didn't get a $10 million advance, but he had definately benefited over the centuries. Don't think for a minute he wouldn't have benefited financially if he didn't have a chance.

I have this thing about Paul. I have no way of knowing whether his "experience" is true or not. What I have a problem with is how so many churches these days spend way too much time talking about what Paul said instead of what Jesus said. If you go to some churches, you would think their official religion is Paulianity.

He wrote letters to churches. He didnt write a book. I'm not trying to pick at straws, but from what we know of Paul, the life he lived before his conversion was probably much more pleasurable than the life he led after his conversion. If Paul was looking to make a buck, I would imagine he would have stayed with the Jewish elite of the day.

[Macarthur]

He wrote letters to churches. He didnt write a book. I'm not trying to pick at straws, but from what we know of Paul, the life he lived before his conversion was probably much more pleasurable than the life he led after his conversion. If Paul was looking to make a buck, I would imagine he would have stayed with the Jewish elite of the day.
If Paul was looking to make a buck, I would imagine he would have stayed with the Jewish elite of the day.


That's probably true.

[romepunk]

2012, baby! The Mayan Cosmogenesis draweth nigh!