Corporal Punishment vs. Sibling Violence

[elysian]

My parents did use physical punishment- and often. It was taken as a matter of course and no one questioned a parent's right to correct their own child. It was understood as well that if another adult in the neighborhood or at school caught you in bad behavior that adult had the authority to thump you as well- and if you behaved badly enough in public to get a thumping, not only would you get thumped the first time, you'd get it again upon arriving home.

I don't really have too much issue with that except for the times Mom used to grab us by the hair. Today people would be shocked to see a mother dragging her daughter out of church by the hair, but back then it was considered normal. If it didn't leave bruises, break bones or draw blood it was fair game.

I got beaten by my sisters and their friends far worse than anything my parents ever dreamed of dishing out. Let's see just a few of my sisters escapades:

Attempted hanging: Fortunately the rope broke but it left me with nasty rope-burn on my neck. Since neither of my parents witnessed the act, neither sister was punished.

Mud slinging the old fashioned way: They tied my arms and legs to the swing set and proceeded to coat me with mud balls. Fortunately Dad came home early from work, catching them both red-handed (or should I say "brown-handed") and he beat the tar out of both of them. Mom had locked herself in the house and had turned up the TV so she couldn't hear me scream.

Pinning and smothering: My oldest sister had learned from detective shows (or so she boldly asserted) that you could kill someone by putting a pillow over the unfortunate victim's face and sitting on it. Good thing they got scared when I passed out.

Throwing stinging insects in my hair: Nothing says "sadism" like throwing wasps and bees in someone's hair. It took years for me to overcome my fear of flying insects. To this day I detest any thing or any one touching my hair other than me (yes I do comb, curl and style it) or a licensed beautician.

Now IMO the greater cruelty here is not parents disciplining children but failing to discipline children for outright sadism. They were generally not punished for these sorts of things because Mom locked us outside when she wanted to watch her soaps or just take a break, Dad worked all the time, and both of them believed in "let the kids resolve their own arguments." I say you have to be insane to have kids spaced at 18 month intervals and expect them not to kill each other.

Siblings have the potential to inflict far more harm on kids than do their parents.

[Esther]

Now IMO the greater cruelty here is not parents disciplining children but failing to discipline children for outright sadism. They were generally not punished for these sorts of things because Mom locked us outside when she wanted to watch her soaps or just take a break, Dad worked all the time, and both of them believed in "let the kids resolve their own arguments." I say you have to be insane to have kids spaced at 18 month intervals and expect them not to kill each other.

Siblings have the potential to inflict far more harm on kids than do their parents.

I agree but I would broaden that statement: "Children have the potential to inflict far more harm on one another than do a child's parents." Relationships between kids can get very, very ugly when parents don't do their jobs.

I'm sorry your sisters were so horrible to you, (((((Elysian))))).

[elysian]

Thanks, Esther.

I don't blame my parents for all the things that happened. They did the best they could with what they had. They were challenged by their youth, by having too many kids too fast, (three kids by the time they were both 23) limited income, limited education, living in an unenlightened cultural environment.

To make it even more difficult Mom is bi-polar. Back then there was such a stigma attached for getting treatment for mental disorders that she did not get the treatment and help she needed until she was 50 years old and we were long since out of the house. Many of her rages as well as depressive episodes I believe are directly attributable to her illness. I speculate today if she left us alone to avoid doing a Joan Crawford or worse. I doubt if I could have done better given the same circumstances. Mental illness is very prevalent on her side of the family- her father was an alcoholic and may have also been bi-polar. One of her uncles committed suicide. I have been treated (and am still in cognitive therapy) for depression and PTSD.

My older sister in particular was extremely crafty and manipulative as well as cruel. She always took special care to be super-sweet around adults (remember the example of Angelica on RugRats) so they never suspected her cruel side until she got caught extorting lunch money from boys at school. Even then they found it hard to believe that her sadism extended to family as well.

I would have to say yes hindsight is 20/20, but my background taught me a few things that might be helpful for parents:

Don't have your kids too close together.
(Apparently NFP didn't work for my mother! :lol: :lol: )
One reason to put some time between births is that having too many children too quickly is detrimental to both the mother's health and to the developing child. (http://www.infoforhealth.org/pr/m12/m12chap2_4.shtml) There is a higher incidence of congenital birth defects (I was born with a congenital motor deficit as well as mitral valve prolapse- and pneumonia. My sisters were born healthy and normal.) and prematurity in children of mothers who wait less than two years between pregnancies. (http://www.moh.gov.om/BS.htm#2) The odds of poor outcomes increase with each subsequent child in which the mother waits less than two years between pregnancies.

With the exception of multiple births (you can't help that) another good reason to put some age difference between your kids so they aren't in competition for the same resources. My family was poor so my oldest sister got all the new things, a fact which she gloated upon with great delight, and that she saw as "I guess I'm the favorite." (an assertion that may not have entirely been wrong) By the time clothes, shoes, toys, etc. had been through both of my older sisters and I had to use them they were pretty well worn out and useless. Putting age difference between children helps ensure they won't be interested in the same toys or have the same interests so there is less competition for the same resources.

Don't have more kids than you can afford.
I know, who can actually afford them, right? But it is incredibly poor stewardship to intentionally have children you know you cannot provide adequately for. This adds fuel to the fire of competing for resources. I understand one reason why my sisters heavily resented me because I was ill all the time growing up and my medical expenses were a huge strain on an already meager budget. I believe that may have also caused a large amount of resentment on my parents' part too, because when I asked for anything- even for something as basic and necessary as lunch money- their response (usually in a vindictive tone) was "we already spent $____on you this month for your doctor visits and your medication, etc."

Look out for the smaller and weaker ones.
If they say they're getting beaten up, look into it. There is probably more to the story than just a younger kid wanting to get an older sibling in trouble. Don't be so hasty to say "well you settle your differences between yourselves." This form of dispute resolution is OK between peers (kids the same age and size) and if there's no violence involved but when it's two large strong kids against one weak one, you need to rethink your logic. Someone is likely getting pounded here.

[Mujibur]

Sorry to hear about your difficult childhood, elysian. I agree that siblings who are close in age can be awful with each other. My brother and I often made my mother want to rip her hair out sometimes because of our incessant fighting when we were younger. When we got out of high school though, we became best friends because we were so close in age (2.5 years) and could relate to each other so well. So having kids close in age can mean difficulties when they are younger, but it can also mean that they can get along great together because they are not too far apart in maturity.

[elysian]

Fortunately they both live far enough away that when we are around each other it's possible to be civil and even cordial at times- holidays, birthdays, etc. I don't have what I would consider a close relationship with either of them but I'm not hostile toward them either.