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View Full Version : The official war gloating thread



Epoetker
April 10th 2003, 07:23 PM
http://www.canada.com/national/features/iraq/story.html?id={A60E3CF1-EEB1-46A6-9A83-1F2E7B015CAB}

I'll let Mark Steyn speak first:


Well, this whole quagmire seems to be getting worse, eh? I see the Yanks have now been reduced to staging fake scenes of supposed jubilation on the alleged streets of what the Pentagon assures us is Baghdad. If you pause the video, you'll see the guy on the right jumping up and down thwacking his shoe on the head of Saddam's toppled statue is actually Richard Perle disguised as an Iraqi cab driver and the woman standing next to him ululating "Blessings be upon you, o great Bush" is David Frum in a chador.

Meanwhile, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, the Iraqi information minister, is apparently taking a couple of days off to celebrate Iraq's official Mother Of All Victories weekend. On his last stand-up set, he insisted Saddam's army had the British and Americans on the run. "We are in control," he said. "They are in a state of hysteria. Losers, they think that by killing civilians and trying to distort the feelings of the people they will win. I think they will not win, those bastards." I knew he was doomed when he started talking like a Liberal backbencher.

It's surely only a matter of time before he's hired as Chrétien's press officer. "These are all lies that the Americans are annoyed with Canada! The whole world knows Washington is terrified of our great leader and quakes before his heroic display of principles and sovereignty! America is our best friend and neighbour and if they dare say otherwise we will crush them like the Zionist tools they are! The 49th parallel is littered with the burnt-out shells of their tanks, those bastards!"

My favourite vignette from yesterday? The sack of the UN HQ in Baghdad. Hey, Jacques, with all those missing filing cabinets, we're gonna have to give inspections even longer to work.

Oh, dear. I fear this column is getting bogged down in a gloating quagmire. Let us turn instead to the shape of the post-war world. Watching that statue of Saddam topple just before 7 p.m. Iraqi time yesterday, one understood immediately that here was the great symbolic image of this war -- the one that they'll be playing in the TV news round-ups of the year, and the decade. The only question is: What precisely does the great symbolic image symbolize? Is it the Middle Eastern equivalent of the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, an act that rippled across half a continent? Or is it something smaller, more contained, a crack in the ice but the hard face of the rest of the lake remains frozen? You could hear the bafflement in the coverage of the Arab state TV networks as their reporters struggled to explain the pictures of joyous Iraqis cheering the first western troops to march in to occupy a major Middle Eastern city since General Allenby took Jerusalem for the British 85 years ago. Like that event, this week's images mark the start of an epochal, transformational shift.

That kind of talk unnerves some people, if only because the present arrangements suit them quite nicely. Bookending the liberation of Baghdad are two summits -- Bush and Blair in Belfast on Monday, Chirac and Schroeder and Putin in Moscow on Friday. It's nice to have the choices put so plainly: on the one hand, the Coalition of the Willing; on the other, the Coalition of the Willing To Go On Selling Saddam Nuclear Reactors In Exchange For Oil Concessions For Another Decade Or Three No Matter How Many People He Kills. The French mock the "coalition of the willing" as "les Anglo-Saxons," and if that's the best insult they can come up with I'll take it. Nothing new about this: in Eastern Europe in the Eighties, Thatcher and Reagan were the heroes, not Mitterrand and Schmidt. Liberated peoples are rarely grateful to those who found it more convenient to keep them in prison. "Anglo-Saxon" may be a sneer in France and Belgium, not in Eastern Europe.

So tomorrow's meeting of the Coalition of the Irrelevant will be of interest only for students of the terminal stages of M. Chirac's Gallic hauteur. All three men seem imprisoned by their pasts -- Chirac the seedy fixer, Schroeder the Sixties peacenik, Putin the KGB hardman. Kofi Annan has already figured it's best to steer clear: When the Iraqis are in the streets waving posters of Bush and playing soccer with the Brits it's not the best time for a photo op with Dominique de Villepin.

Since "Anglo-Saxon" is the preferred French shorthand for the Bush-Blair view of the world, we may as well keep things simple and designate the Chiraquiste alternative as "French." The "Anglo-Saxon" view -- the Bush Doctrine -- thinks that liberty will do for the Middle East what it's done for Eastern Europe and Latin America. The "French" view is that it's much easier if relations with the world's dictators are managed by a sleazy transnational elite. If M. Chirac and M. de Villepin and TotalFinaElf can live with Saddam, why can't the Iraqis live with Saddam, 24/7, forever and ever?

In the last year, we all had plenty of time to make our choices. Eastern Europe chose "Anglo-Saxon." The British and American left voted "French": in the Sixties, the peaceniks thought the Communists would transform South Vietnam into an agrarian utopia; this time round, it didn't bother going through the motions of even rhetorical progressivism -- they marched to keep the Iraqi people in chains, and they were happy to do so. A week ago, a European poll revealed that a third of the French people wanted Saddam to win the war. If he makes it out from under that rubble with his moustache intact and manages to hop a fishing smack to Marseilles, maybe he should try running for a seat in the National Assembly.

And Canada? We voted French, finally and decisively, and in defiance of our own history. Indeed, at times M. Chrétien was plus Chirac que Chirac. With exquisite timing, the Prime Minister waited till after the Americans had won before announcing he wanted the Americans to win.

France, Germany, Russia, Belgium and Canada are not on the side of peace or morality or the Iraqi people. The pictures from the streets of Baghdad make that plain. But we are on the side of TotalFinaElf. Twice in recent columns, Diane Francis has mentioned, almost en passant, a curious little fact:

The Western oil company with the closest ties to the late Saddam is France's TotalFinaElf. That's not the curious fact, that's just business as usual in the Fifth Republic. This is the curious fact: As Diane wrote in February and again last week, "Total's biggest shareholder is Montreal's Paul Desmarais, whose youngest son is married to Prime Minister Jean Chrétien's daughter."

Let's see if I've got this straight: TotalFinaElf's largest shareholder is a subsidiary of Montreal's Power Corp, whose co-chief executive is Jean Chrétien's son-in-law, Andre Desmarais. Mr. Desmarais' brother, Paul Desmarais Jr., sits on the Total board.

For months, the anti-war crowd has insisted that "it's all about oil," that the only reason the Iraqi people were being "liberated" was so that the second biggest oil reserves in the world could be annexed in perpetuity by Dick Cheney and Halliburton and the rest of Bush's Texas oilpatch gang. Instead, it turns out that, if it is all about oil, then the principal North American beneficiary of the continued enslavement of the Iraqi people is the family of the Canadian Prime Minister -- that's to say, his daughter, France Chrétien, and his grandchildren.

What a delightful footnote to the Chrétien-Chiraquiste war effort. This is a victory not just for the Iraqi people but for "Anglo-Saxon" reality over Franco-Canadian postmodern cynicism.

Also, you probably knew a site like this would come up:

www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com

Dee Dee Warren
April 13th 2003, 11:41 AM
Also, you probably knew a site like this would come up:

www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com





Gah!!!

I am surprised this thread did not take off... that editorial was quite colorful.

GrayPilgrim
April 13th 2003, 04:15 PM
It is great.

www.welovetehirqiinformationminister.com got 4000 hits its first second on line, it is a hoot.

Hmmm...Canada in bed with the Iraqis

Bartholomew
April 13th 2003, 04:33 PM
Isn't there a Bible verse about gloating over defeated enemies?

~Matt

wienerdog
April 13th 2003, 04:39 PM
At www.andrewsullivan.com, he has the "Von Hoffman awards" for awful wartime predictions. It makes for some good gloating. Here's some from the last few days:

VON HOFFMAN AWARD I: Conventional Wisdom Watch, by Newsweek. A down-arrow for Dick Cheney: "Tells 'Meet the Press' just before war, 'We will be greeted as liberators.' An arrogant blunder for the ages." Nope, Newsweek. Yours was the "arrogant blunder for the ages." And on April 7!

VON HOFFMAN AWARD II: "In Baghdad the coalition forces confront a city apparently determined on resistance. They should remember Napoleon in Moscow, Hitler in Stalingrad, the Americans in Mogadishu and the Russians at Grozny. Hostile cities have ways of making life ghastly for aggressors. They are not like countryside. They seldom capitulate, least of all when their backs are to the wall. It took two years after the American withdrawal from Vietnam for Saigon to fall to the Vietcong. Kabul was ceded to the warlords only when the Taleban drove out of town. In the desert, armies fight armies. In cities, armies fight cities. The Iraqis were not stupid. They listened to Western strategists musing about how a desert battle would be a pushover. Things would get 'difficult' only if Saddam played the cad and drew the Americans into Baghdad. Why should he do otherwise?" - Simon Jenkins, the Times of London, in an article called - yes! - "Baghdad Will Be Near Impossible to Conquer," March 28.

VON HOFFMAN AWARD III: "[Al-Jazeera has shown] the resistance and anger of the Iraqi population, dismissed by Western propaganda as a sullen bunch waiting to throw flowers at Clint Eastwood lookalikes ... The idea that Iraq's population would have welcomed American forces entering the country after a terrifying aerial bombardment was always utterly implausible ... One can only wince at the way weak-minded policy hacks in the Pentagon and White House have spun out the 'ideas' of Lewis and Ajami into the scenario for a quick romp in a friendly Iraq ... pity the Iraqi civilians who must still suffer a great deal more before they are finally 'liberated'." - Edward Said, London Review of Books, April 17.

VON HOFFMAN AWARD IV: "It looked grimly like that scene in A Bridge Too Far, Richard Attenborough's epic on the Arnhem disaster, in which a British officer walks slowly up the great span with an umbrella in his hand to see if he can detect the Germans on the other side. But I knew the Americans were on the other side of this bridge and drove past it at great speed. Which provided a remarkable revelation. While American fighter-bombers criss-crossed the sky, while the ground shook to the sound of exploding ordnance, while the American tanks now stood above the Tigris, vast areas of Baghdad – astonishing when you consider the American claim to be "in the heart" of the city – remain under Saddam Hussein's control." - Robert Fisk, the Independent, April 9, i.e. the day of liberation.

VON HOFFMAN AWARD V: "The huge psychological victory for the coalition produced by the arrival of US tanks in front of the media centre in Baghdad has not finished off the regime, even though this coup came so soon after their shock arrival at the international airport. A compilation of the military detail in reports from journalists in Baghdad and an ear for the changing spin from Centcom gives a less victorious picture of the battle for the Iraqi capital than is shown in the media. For example, for three hours on Saturday Centcom said the US was in Baghdad to stay, not on a raid. Then, after some armoured vehicles had been damaged and some troops killed and injured, it became a raid as the troops withdrew. The selective and censored TV coverage obscures a military reality that has been neither as successful nor as difficult as it has seemed. Now, reports of total victory may be premature." - Dan Plesch, the Guardian, April 9, the day of liberation.

VON HOFFMAN AWARD VI: "As the war drags on, any stifled sympathy for the American invasion will tend to evaporate. As more civilians die and more Iraqis see their "resistance" hailed across the Arab world as a watershed in the struggle against Western imperialism, the traditionally despised Saddam could gain appreciable support among his people. So, the Pentagon's failure to send enough troops to take Baghdad fairly quickly could complicate the postwar occupation, to say nothing of the war itself." - Robert Wright, Slate, April 1.

VON HOFFMAN AWARD VII: "Is Wolfowitz really so ignorant of history as to believe the Iraqis would welcome us as 'their hoped-for liberators'?" - Eric Alterman, The Nation.

VON HOFFMAN AWARDS - THE SEQUEL

V-H AWARD I: "Gruesome days for the German foreign minister: Every morning at nine, his staff briefs him on the situation in Iraq in the ministry's underground situation room. His worst fears are coming true: The US military appears to be stuck in its tracks in the desert, and civilian casualties are multiplying. It has never been so painful to have been in the right, murmurs the foreign minister, with a worried look on his face." - der Spiegel, March 31.

V-H AWARD II: "I bet you in the Pentagon the military planning assumes 5,000 to 10,000 American casualties and at least 100,000 to 250,000 civilian casualties in downtown Baghdad. All on CNN." - Gary Hart, Denver Post, March 30, 2001.

V-H AWARD III: "The United States is going to leave Iraq with its tail between its legs, defeated. It is a war we cannot win. "We do not have the military means to take over Baghdad and for this reason I believe the defeat of the United States in this war is inevitable. "Every time we confront Iraqi troops we may win some tactical battles, as we did for ten years in Vietnam, but we will not be able to win this war, which in my opinion is already lost." - Scott Ritter, South African TV.

V-H AWARD IV: "Iraqis, very clearly, do not want to be 'liberated,' even many who had long opposed Saddam's brutal regime. To the contrary, the US-British invasion appears to have ignited genuine national resistance among 17 million Arab Iraqis, just as the 1941 German invasion of the USSR rallied Russians and Ukrainians behind Stalin's hated regime. ... The nasty, bloody urban warfare the Americans and Brits sought to avoid at all costs is now confronting them." - Eric Margolis, ForeignCorrespondent.com.

V-H AWARD V: "Though Operation Iraqi Freedom has been underway for only two weeks, Rumsfeld's "shock and awe" strategy was a flop. Pentagon strategists expected to have taken Baghdad by Mar. 27. Best-laid plans and all that: U.S. generals, worried that they don't have enough men on the front lines, are considering whether to lay siege to Baghdad, bomb it to ruins or take it one block at a time. Basra hasn't fallen. Suicide bombers are on the loose, we're offing civilians and the Iraqi army has gone guerilla. And we hold a mere 4,000 Iraqi POWs. Only 45 Americans and Britons have died so far--compared to 112 total combat deaths in 1991--but allied casualties will soar if and when ground troops are ordered to take Baghdad... In this respect, Iraqis are no different than we are. Millions of Americans consider Bush to be a hateful, extremist dimwit who seized power twice, once in an unconstitutional judicial coup d'état and again by using the Sept. 11 attacks as a pretext to expand his personal power and gut the Bill of Rights. They call him names, like the Resident and Commander-in-Thief. But even the most passionately anti-Bush Americans would eagerly join their W-loving compatriots to fight any army that invaded the United States in the name of some theoretical 'liberation.' I know I would." - Ted Rall, April 2.

V-H AWARD VI: "Meanwhile, a German government report due to appear in a newspaper on Monday says that up to two million people could die in a war on Iraq. The report released by the Environment Ministry says many civilians would be unable to get food or clean drinking water. The paper quotes the report as saying that a quarter of the population in southern Iraq already has no access to drinking water." - Deutsche Welle.

V-H AWARD VII: "These are the last days of relative calm before we start bombing and massacring hundreds of thousands of people and in so doing enter into what many believe will a very long, drawn-out, insanely expensive, volatile, destabilizing, completely unwinnable war against a cheap thug of an opponent who has negligible military might and zero capacity to actually harm the U.S. in any substantive way. U-S-A! U-S-A! This will not be Desert Storm. This will not be quick and painless. This will be 3,000 guided missiles launched on the first day of the war, 10 times that of Desert Storm, turning Iraq into an instant wasteland." - Mark Morford, Sfgate, March 5.

V-H AWARD VIII: "Have you ever seen such amazing arrogance wedded to such awesome incompetence?" - Molly Ivins, March 16, 2003. No, Molly, I haven't. The liberal media have had a terrible, terrible war.

Epoetker
April 15th 2003, 02:49 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/04/13/do1310.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/04/13/ixop.html

Rather than paste the entire article, I'll just go for my absolute favorite quotes:


Last week, The New York Times reported on the President's reaction to Don Rumsfeld's daily press conference. As the Times tells it, a Bush aide stepped into the Oval Office to warn him that "the unpredictable Defence Secretary" had just threatened Syria. The President looked up from his desk. "Good," he said. Then he went back to work.


The Damascus branch of the Ba'ath Party is about to find itself in the unusual position, for an Arab dictatorship, of being a psycho island in a sea of comparative civilisation (Turkey, Free Iraq, Jordan and Israel).


I realise that...the idea of this President as a smart, savvy chief executive with a patient, methodical eye on the long-term - will strike his many British detractors as a lot of bosh. But then, as the placard of a gratefully liberated Kurd put it on Thursday, "THANK YOU BOSH".


In case you still haven't noticed, Bush always winds up getting at least 90 per cent of everything he wants, and it can't all be dumb luck.


Media Time, whereby 14 months is a precipitous "rush to war" but a 14-day war is a Vietnam-style quagmire...


Bush has a strong team and he likes to delegate, and the people to whom he delegates have strong teams to whom they delegate. It was the commanders on the ground who set the pace to Baghdad. If President Bush is looking for a system of effective decentralisation to bequeath to Iraq, his own Administration these past four weeks is a good working model.

:joy:

Socrates
April 15th 2003, 04:23 PM
In case anyone accuses us of imperialism. An answer from the top.

Colin Powell

Great Response

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that "Over the years the US has sent many of its great young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for is enough to bury those that did not return."

Powell's comment pretty much silenced the room