Exodus - Judaism view today

[shunyadragon]

In the past twenty years the discoveries of archeology have shaken the inerrant view of the literal account of Exodus in the Bible being true. In Christianity it is one of the main issues that created the deep theological schism between the minimalists and the maximalist. The following article focuses more on the issue in Judaism. I would like here the views of the faithful of different denominations on this issue.


http://www.detnews.com/2001/religion/0105/02/religion-212248.htm (http://www.detnews.com/2001/religion/0105/02/religion-212248.htm)

This is the introduction to the article.


Scholars say Biblical version of Exodus probably isn't true.




Provocative sermon divides congregation

At Sinai Temple on the west side of Los Angeles, Sunday's sermon questioning the authenticity of the Exodus by Rabbi David Wolpe -- and a follow-up discussion at Monday's service -- provoked tremendous, and varied, response. Many praised Wolpe for his courage and vision. "It was the best sermon possible, because it is preparing the young generation to understand all the truth about religion," said Eddia Mirharooni, a Beverly Hills, Calif., fashion designer.
A few said they were hurt -- "I didn't want to hear this," one woman said -- or even a bit angry. Others said the sermon did nothing to shake their faith that the Exodus story is true. "Science can always be proven wrong," said Kalanit Benji, a University of California, Los Angeles, undergraduate in psychobiology. Added Aman Massi, a 60-year-old Los Angeles businessman: "For sure it was true, 100 percent. If it were not true, how could we follow it for 3,300 years?"
But most congregants -- along with secular Jews and several rabbis interviewed -- said that whether the Exodus is historically true or not is almost beside the point. The power of the sweeping epic lies in its profound and timeless message about freedom, they say. The story of liberation from bondage into a promised land has inspired the haunting spirituals of black slaves, the emancipation and civil rights movements, Latin America's liberation theology, peasant revolts in Germany, nationalist struggles in South Africa, the American revolution, even Leninist politics, according to Michael Walzer in the book, "Exodus and Revolution."


--Los Angeles Times

[Timothy Leary]

In the past twenty years the discoveries of archeology have shaken the inerrant view of the literal account of Exodus in the Bible being true.

Has it, or has it simply shown that there is a lack of physical evidence? There are even some who scoff at the idea that Abraham existed - yet how likely is it that you could prove that any specific figure said to be from that era existed?

In Christianity it is one of the main issues that created the deep theological schism between the minimalists and the maximalist. The following article focuses more on the issue in Judaism. I would like here the views of the faithful of different denominations on this issue.

Most of those who don't believe in the exodus, generally don't have much faith in God also. I wish I could say otherwise.

[Sacrificial Ram]

Has it, or has it simply shown that there is a lack of physical evidence? There are even some who scoff at the idea that Abraham existed - yet how likely is it that you could prove that any specific figure said to be from that era existed?



Most of those who don't believe in the exodus, generally don't have much faith in God also. I wish I could say otherwise.
It is more than the lack of physical evidence. When there has been enough investigation, the lack of physical evidence is evidence within itself.

If nothing else, it points to Exodus being at least exagerated. The numbers of people reported in Exodus living in the Sinia for that long a period of time would have left traces that are not there.

[Goose]

Most archaelogical scholars heatedly debate among themselves on the topic. And Dever, although I enjoy his books, clearly has a bias and isn't afraid to tell people he does.

[shunyadragon]

It is more than the lack of physical evidence. When there has been enough investigation, the lack of physical evidence is evidence within itself.

If nothing else, it points to Exodus being at least exagerated. The numbers of people reported in Exodus living in the Sinia for that long a period of time would have left traces that are not there.
There is more than a lack of physical evidence. There is abundent evidence that a large number of people did not migrate into Isreal at that time and the wars of conquest never took place. All the evidence clearly indicates the tribes of Isreal developed from local nomadic tribes.

The supposed bias of Dever has little impact on the many scholars that agree with this evidence. Iwould like to see this supposed bias better documented.

[Pitiricus]

In the past twenty years the discoveries of archeology have shaken the inerrant view of the literal account of Exodus in the Bible being true. In Christianity it is one of the main issues that created the deep theological schism between the minimalists and the maximalist. The following article focuses more on the issue in Judaism. I would like here the views of the faithful of different denominations on this issue.


http://www.detnews.com/2001/religion/0105/02/religion-212248.htm (http://www.detnews.com/2001/religion/0105/02/religion-212248.htm)

This is the introduction to the article.


Scholars say Biblical version of Exodus probably isn't true.




Provocative sermon divides congregation

At Sinai Temple on the west side of Los Angeles, Sunday's sermon questioning the authenticity of the Exodus by Rabbi David Wolpe -- and a follow-up discussion at Monday's service -- provoked tremendous, and varied, response. Many praised Wolpe for his courage and vision. "It was the best sermon possible, because it is preparing the young generation to understand all the truth about religion," said Eddia Mirharooni, a Beverly Hills, Calif., fashion designer.
A few said they were hurt -- "I didn't want to hear this," one woman said -- or even a bit angry. Others said the sermon did nothing to shake their faith that the Exodus story is true. "Science can always be proven wrong," said Kalanit Benji, a University of California, Los Angeles, undergraduate in psychobiology. Added Aman Massi, a 60-year-old Los Angeles businessman: "For sure it was true, 100 percent. If it were not true, how could we follow it for 3,300 years?"
But most congregants -- along with secular Jews and several rabbis interviewed -- said that whether the Exodus is historically true or not is almost beside the point. The power of the sweeping epic lies in its profound and timeless message about freedom, they say. The story of liberation from bondage into a promised land has inspired the haunting spirituals of black slaves, the emancipation and civil rights movements, Latin America's liberation theology, peasant revolts in Germany, nationalist struggles in South Africa, the American revolution, even Leninist politics, according to Michael Walzer in the book, "Exodus and Revolution."


--Los Angeles Times
It's really no big deal for Jews... Some Orthodox scholars have said for a long time that a lot of the Torah is midrash ... For instance the giving of the law at Sinai is an allegory for how Law came to the Jews (this from an orthodox scholar)... This comes back to the Pardes, the four explanation of the Torah and nobody in rabbinic Judaism (I distinguish here with the Karaites :lol: ) takes the Torah as being only pshat, literal... You should read the Rambam to see that this was even true in the Middle Ages... After all the first part of his treatise was to say that you cannot take literally the anthropomorphic aspect of God in the Torah!

[Goose]

There is more than a lack of physical evidence. There is abundent evidence that a large number of people did not migrate into Isreal at that time and the wars of conquest never took place. All the evidence clearly indicates the tribes of Isreal developed from local nomadic tribes.

The supposed bias of Dever has little impact on the many scholars that agree with this evidence. Iwould like to see this supposed bias better documented.
You're arguing for Dever and his side now, and you ask to see documented evidence...but if you read his books, then you'd already have it and know. Why are you putting on a show? You act as if you already know his POV, etc. I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't know what the information is and just cut's and pastes an article. Did you know there are artifacts from a king named Jacob from the Canaanite region at around the same time that the Jacob, son of Isaac of the Bible lived? You make no mention of stuff like this. I suggest you read from a more broad range of views.

[shunyadragon]

You're arguing for Dever and his side now, and you ask to see documented evidence...but if you read his books, then you'd already have it and know. Why are you putting on a show? You act as if you already know his POV, etc. I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't know what the information is and just cut's and pastes an article. Did you know there are artifacts from a king named Jacob from the Canaanite region at around the same time that the Jacob, son of Isaac of the Bible lived? You make no mention of stuff like this. I suggest you read from a more broad range of views.
Yes I know of the artifacts. I recognize the development of the Kingdom in this period, but it is home grown. You will have to present more archeological evidence for the conquest and the migration into Isreal, which is lacking. The cities supposedly involved in sieges and battles show no evidence of this happening at the time.