The Sinning Christian

[Jude3b]

Some Christians believe that we will continue to sin, each and every day - even after being saved. It seems to me that this is a false doctrine, even if it happens to some believers. What is your opinion?

What are God's plans and purposes for His redeemed children? Are we to sin, each and every day? Or does God call us to a higher standard of holiness? What is your opinion? Please provide Biblical proofs.

[Amazing Rando]

Some Christians believe that we will continue to sin, each and every day - even after being saved. It seems to me that this is a false doctrine, even if it happens to some believers. What is your opinion?

What are God's plans and purposes for His redeemed children? Are we to sin, each and every day? Or does God call us to a higher standard of holiness? What is your opinion? Please provide Biblical proofs.

This is almost the very same subject as your other thread on holiness.

God calls all of us to be in accord with his perfect will and to live sinless lives. That's what he demands of us. Yet none of us will ever attain such a state of perfection apart from Jesus.

[themuzicman]

Amen, rando. Our salvation is a process of sancification, which will not be complete until we are resurrected.

Michael

[Amazing Rando]

:teeth: Should this go in Christianity 201 instead of ecclesiology?

[tizzidale]

Well, sin is something that Christ came to destroy. We are urged not to sin, like Jesus to the woman caught in adultery (1 John 2:1). When I do sin, I do not need to have the attitude that "Well, we're all going to sin until the day of resurrection anyway." No, we're told by James (chp. 4) to weep and mourn over sin. Indeed Jesus said, "Blessed are those who mourn." (Matthew 5). Sin is something we should shun - even the very appearance that we are sinning. It is so important to keep your brother from sinning - we should go the extra mile to make sure we are not stumbling blocks. When we pray and feel that our brother may have something against us (not us them) we should first go make it right. When we look at Jesus, He shows us (as in a mirror) our true selves. But when we repent, and follow after Him as the author and finisher of our faith - He makes us into His image.

rusty

[Jude3b]

Well, sin is something that Christ came to destroy. We are urged not to sin, like Jesus to the woman caught in adultery (1 John 2:1). When I do sin, I do not need to have the attitude that "Well, we're all going to sin until the day of resurrection anyway." No, we're told by James (chp. 4) to weep and mourn over sin. Indeed Jesus said, "Blessed are those who mourn." (Matthew 5). Sin is something we should shun - even the very appearance that we are sinning. It is so important to keep your brother from sinning - we should go the extra mile to make sure we are not stumbling blocks. When we pray and feel that our brother may have something against us (not us them) we should first go make it right. When we look at Jesus, He shows us (as in a mirror) our true selves. But when we repent, and follow after Him as the author and finisher of our faith - He makes us into His image.

rusty

I agree with this post. God's Word still says, "your adversary the devil ... walketh about, seeking whom he may devour; Whom resist steadfast in the faith." May we all follow that advice. Amen!

[Jude3b]

Amen, rando. Our salvation is a process of sancification, which will not be complete until we are resurrected.

Michael

What about our justification?

[BoundWill]

Some Christians believe that we will continue to sin, each and every day - even after being saved. It seems to me that this is a false doctrine, even if it happens to some believers. What is your opinion?

What are God's plans and purposes for His redeemed children? Are we to sin, each and every day? Or does God call us to a higher standard of holiness? What is your opinion? Please provide Biblical proofs.

I only need to turn to Romans.

In Romans 6, Paul says "Should we continue in sin so that grace may abound? By no means!" So there is God's standard. However, Paul brings out the backside of this in ch. 7: "I do not do the thing I want, but I do the thing I hate." Sin still lives in the flesh. Even though we have died the "big death" with Christ in baptism (Rom. 6), we have not yet died the "little death" to be freed from the flesh, and therefore sin in our members. Paul many times called himself "the chief of all sinners." When it comes to God, anything we do to try to earn some salvation/sanctification doesn't work:

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. (Isaiah 64)

When it comes to our neighbor, though, we absolutely need to watch out for sin and subdue it as much as possible. This only comes, however, from a knowledge that while we are in the flesh, we're still sinners.

We will and do continue to sin. It's a good thing that as much as we sin, that's as much Christ hangs on the cross for us.

[Pilgrim]

I was thinking of Romans chapter 7 myself. Paul makes it clear that the struggle with sin is a daily one. Paul even calls himself the chief of sinners. The mature Christian will face the sin head on and do battle, realizing that he or she needs to come to Christ daily with that battle until we are made perfect in Christ.

[Tertius]

In regards to the "sinning Christian," a distinction needs to be made between the believer's POSTION (in Christ) and one's PRACTICE (post-salvation experience). Alternatively, Scofield called these Standing and State.
The Apostle Paul clearly outlines what our position is in Christ. Our position via the cross is that we are made "dead to sin" in the eyes of God through Christ.

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Our position via the cross is that we are made "free from sin" in the eyes of God through Christ.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Our position in Christ is that we carry or are clothed in Christ's righteousness, not our own.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

When God sees a believer, he sees the believer through Christ, dead to sin, free from sin, clothed in Christ's righteousness. That is the believer's position or standing.

Obviously, the believer's practice or state is another story, and this is what gets judged at the beam seat. It is, obviously, impossible to eradicate sin completely. But the key to victory is living under grace (which is learned), not the law (which is natural).

[BibleMan]

Some Christians believe that we will continue to sin, each and every day - even after being saved. It seems to me that this is a false doctrine, even if it happens to some believers. What is your opinion?

What are God's plans and purposes for His redeemed children? Are we to sin, each and every day? Or does God call us to a higher standard of holiness? What is your opinion? Please provide Biblical proofs.



"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon" (Isa. 55:7).

Sounds to me like God expects us to forsake our filthy sinful habits and live our lives for him!

[beloved57]

Some Christians believe that we will continue to sin, each and every day - even after being saved. It seems to me that this is a false doctrine, even if it happens to some believers. What is your opinion?

What are God's plans and purposes for His redeemed children? Are we to sin, each and every day? Or does God call us to a higher standard of holiness? What is your opinion? Please provide Biblical proofs.
If we read the lords prayer, where it says, jesus told his followers to pray thus: matt 6

11Give us this day our daily bread.

12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

This to me presupposes that his followers sin every day..

[BibleMan]

If we read the lords prayer, where it says, jesus told his followers to pray thus: matt 6

11Give us this day our daily bread.

12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

This to me presupposes that his followers sin every day..



Where does that verse say we sin everyday?

[Joe Gofish]

Some Christians believe that we will continue to sin, each and every day - even after being saved. It seems to me that this is a false doctrine, even if it happens to some believers. What is your opinion?

What are God's plans and purposes for His redeemed children? Are we to sin, each and every day? Or does God call us to a higher standard of holiness? What is your opinion? Please provide Biblical proofs.
May be thats why you believe in the sinners pray,Jude do you sin ? or has God made you not to sin,Jude are you with out sin ? Two questions please try to answer.

[ruthrush]

If we read the lords prayer, where it says, jesus told his followers to pray thus: matt 6

11Give us this day our daily bread.

12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

This to me presupposes that his followers sin every day..

Does it say we are not saved through faith alone?
Ruth

[ruthrush]

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon" (Isa. 55:7).

Sounds to me like God expects us to forsake our filthy sinful habits and live our lives for him!

"Let the wicked": antinomians, deliberate transgressors
"forsake his way" : forsake his own way and follow YHVH's Way.
"the unrighteous man his thoughts": his thoughts are the words of his heart.

When our hearts belong to YHVH, our ways will follow His Ways. We will not deliberately sin. Deliberate sin is blasphemy. (Num.15:30-31)
Ruth