Tisha B'Av

[Timothy Leary]

Today is Tisha B'Av, according to both the (traditional) Hillel II calender, and the New Moon sightings (karaite calender).

Traditionally, it is a day of mourning and fasting. On this day, many of the most tragic events in Jewish history occured. According to tradition (and in some cases, scripture) this is what happened on Tisha B'av in the past:

1. The sin of the spies caused God to decree that the Children of Israel who left Egypt would not be permitted to enter the land of Israel;
2. The first Temple was destroyed; (biblical)
3. The second Temple was destroyed;
4. Betar, the last fortress to hold out against the Romans during the Bar Kochba revolt in the year 135, fell, sealing the fate of the Jewish people.
5. One year after the fall of Betar, the Temple area was plowed.
6. In 1492, King Ferdinand of Spain issued the expulsion decree, setting Tisha B'Av as the final date by which not a single Jew would be allowed to walk on Spanish soil.
7. Many Pogroms started on this day
8. World War I started on this day
9. World War II started on this day

The Book of Lamentations is traditionally read on this day.

[Cherith]

It makes one wonder about the probability of "coincidence" and whether or not God is trying to tell someone something...

No, of course, THAT can't be it!

[Raptor]

:offtopic:


Did WWI and II really start on the same day? Or does this date mark the the first large scale events in each war?


Edit: Austria declared war in Russia on this date, but I can find nothing on WWII on this date. Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1st, (I'm not trying to start anything, just an observation.)

[Timothy Leary]

:offtopic:


Did WWI and II really start on the same day? Or does this date mark the the first large scale events in each war?


Edit: Austria declared war in Russia on this date, but I can find nothing on WWII on this date. Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1st, (I'm not trying to start anything, just an observation.)

In the Biblical Calender, yes. Not the secular calender.

[Timothy Leary]

It makes one wonder about the probability of "coincidence" and whether or not God is trying to tell someone something...

No, of course, THAT can't be it!

Actually, here is what God says these days will be like in the future:

"Thus says YHWH of Hosts, the fast of the Fourth, the fast of the Fifth, the fast of the Seventh, and the Fast of the Tenth shall be for the House of Judah times of joy, and celebration and good appointed times; and you shall love truth and peace." (Zech. 8:19)

[Timothy Leary]

For an article describing where it comes from, etc. biblically, see:

http://www.karaite-korner.org/rekhavi/fast_fifth_month.shtml

[Raptor]

In the Biblical Calender, yes. Not the secular calender.


:doh:

:duh:

Further proof that I'm a dork sometimes. Do you have a link to a calendar? I'm still interested to see how the dates mesh. (I'm still stuck in the gregorian (sp?) calendar perspective.)

[bar Jonah]

I have read from rabbinical Judaism sources that it is postulated that the return of the mashiach might be on Tisha B'av. Have you ever heard of this, Yoshiah?

[Timothy Leary]

:doh:

:duh:

Further proof that I'm a dork sometimes. Do you have a link to a calendar? I'm still interested to see how the dates mesh. (I'm still stuck in the gregorian (sp?) calendar perspective.)

http://www.kaluach.org/ has a program which carries the Hillel II Calender - it is generally used among Jews and is pre-calculated. I don't find it entirely accurate since it at times disagrees with actual new moon sightings and such, but it's generally within a few days of the actual sightings. (both calenders were the same this month)

[Timothy Leary]

Hi RightIdea,

I don't know, I haven't studied enough Rabbinical Writings to know if any say that. However, It would fit in nicely with the prophecy I quoted above.

[bar Jonah]

Hi RightIdea,

I don't know, I haven't studied enough Rabbinical Writings to know if any say that. However, It would fit in nicely with the prophecy I quoted above.
Very interesting. Thank you. :rigreen:


(And I should have said the coming of the maschiach. My bias is showing; I obviously believe the maschiach has come once already, as the Servant... and will again, as the King.)

[Timothy Leary]

It's no problem. I understood what you were saying ;)

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Our fast went OK. Naor (3.5) was amused by the fact that everyone sat on the floor of the synagogue Monday night for the reading of the Book of Lamentations.

http://www.ou.org/yerushalayim/tishabav/tishabav.html is a pretty good introduction.

Yesterday morning's readings were Deuteronomy 4:25-40 and Jeremiah 8:13-9:23.

Yesterday afternoon's readings were Exodus 32:11-14/34:1-10 and Isaiah 55:6-56:8.

I've never heard about WWII but in 1914, Austro-Hungarian Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated in Sarajevo (thus touching off WWI) on Tisha B'Av.

In 1492, Ferdinand & Isabella's Alhambra Decree (expelling us from Spain) took effect on Tisha B'av. The leader of the Spanish Jewish community, Don Yitzhak Abarbanel (http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/rabbis/abrabanel.htm) made a blistering response http://www.abarbanell.com/response.html to Ferdinand & Isabella. (It's a wonder thaey didn't take his head off for what he said.)

Some have the custom of doing some housecleaning on Tisha B'Av. There is a tradition that the Messiah will come on Tisha B'Av & who wants to welcome him in a dirty house?

We broke our fast with our traditional bagels, lox & cream cheese.

In 1993, I had my annual stint of reserve duty way down on the Israeli-Egyptian border, about 50 kilometers north of Eilat, during Tisha B'Av. The co was nice enough to assign me to guard duty at the base gate (as opposed to driving around on patrol) so I could sit there in the shade. Even so, given the hellish heat, I had to start drinking by early afternoon (I had spoken to one of the rabbis at our synagogue & he said that since I was on operational duty & had to stay alert & could drink as needed). IDF (http://www.idf.il/) regulations state that on fast days, soldiers who are fasting, are entitled to a hot meal upon termination of the fast. So the cook, who was very cool, made myself & the one other guy who was fasting, some chicken schnitzels & chips (i.e. french fries).

By far, the most meaningful Tisha B'Av DW & I ever had was way back before we adopted Da Boyz. A friend of ours worked at this private museum http://www.ilmuseums.com/museum_eng.asp?id=22 in the Old City of Jerusalem. A bunch of us went into one of the underground chambers & read Lamentations by flashlight. When the owners of the museum decided to dig under their home, they sank concrete pillars to hold up their house while they dug. The museum emerged from their diggings. But when they poured the concrete to make the pillars, the surrounding dirt, with all the various layers & strata, stuck to the concrete. One of the pillars is now in a round glass vitrine. Amidst the multi-shaded/colored layers of earth stuck to this pillar are two widely-separated, very distinct, black strata. They are the soot/ash from when the Babylonians & Romans burnt the city in 586 BCE & 70 CE.

Be well!

ssv :hi: