Denominations, Associations, Independents.

[Solly]

Instead of knocking them, tell us about them. Which one(s) are you connected with, what's their history, etc?

[Solly]

I am part of a Baptist Association called the "Gospel Standard Strict Baptists"

Baptists, who trace our origins back to the 1630s in England, when Calvinistic Baptists got underway here (just after Roger Williams at providence Rhode island.)

Strict, because we practice restricted communion - not open to just anybody, but seen as a local church ordinance.

Gospel Standard, because in the 1780 new doctrine came in influenced by the New Lights from New England (Joseph Bellamy and Edwards Jnr), which brought about a split in the Calvinistic Baptists. A magazine was started called "Gospel Standard" hence the name.

Today we are small; demographically on the way out; spiritually in a bad state - without any denominational structure at all, things can fall apart. By the grace of God the church I am the minister of hopes to reverse that trend in so far as we have influence.

[GrayPilgrim]

Solly,

Would that be the same denomination as Spurgeon?

[GrayPilgrim]

I am part of the Evangelical Free Church of America.

Historically it comes from the Swedish and Norwegian Free Churches in America, which merged in the 50's. They hold to a historical orthodox creeds. However within their 12 point statement they do advocate pre-mil. I think it's looney to put eschatology in a denom doctrinal statement besides a bare bones, even if I do agree with it.

GP

[Solly]

GP.

Not quite the same as Spurgeon.

When the SB's left, the remainder eventually organised themselves as the Baptist Union of GB around 1813. In the 1890 they joined up with the avowedly Arminian Baptist churches.

Spurgeon's church was part of the BU in its early days when it was still predominantly Calvinistic, but he came out during the DownGrade Controversy. He respected the SB's, but never sided with them, seeing them as HyperCalvinistic. We have somewhat of a love/hate relationship with him, recognising that God used him, but not going along with some of his ways and means.

Interestingly, our closest relationships, spiritually speaking, are with the gereformeerde Kirke in the Netherlands, and some hard line Presyterians in the North of Scotland, allied with the likes of Kenneth MacCrae and John Kennedy. We have three congregations in America: Choteau MO, Grand Rapids, and a third I can't remember. There are two in Australia as well.

Would EFCA be derived from Lutheranism?

[GrayPilgrim]

I think they might historically, when they broke off from the state churches. Their main distinction is a desire to be independent, so theologically each church is different, as especially the older churches, reject any oversight from others. Jaltus grew up in the denom, so he would have more details. They are predomnately in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois and Iowa, where there were large Scandanavian communities.

[Solly]

We are the same, in that each church is independant, but associates with like minded churches. We have no denominational structure as such, but we have a confession, and some charitable trusts that link us together.

I'll be interested to here from Jaltus as well. I forget all about the ethno-demographics of America.

[GrayPilgrim]

It is interesting. In 2001, as part of my seminary degree, I attended a Haitian church that was part of EFCA, so they are branching out, but that is a newer direction. They changed their name in 60's both because of a merger and a realization that Sweedish or Norwegian as part of the title would not be too inviting to those of different ethnic back gorunds.

[geebob]

I go to a free methodist church.

They broke off of the methodists (or they were kicked out) for being too enthusiastic, preaching against slavery, secret societies... etc. Also our pews were free (back then, in the methodist church you rented your pew and the closer to the front you sat, the richer you were).

Today we are in general more conservative than united methodists though we have some loose affiliations with them. For example, most of the free methodist pastors come from Asbury Seminary which is the most conservative united methodist seminary.

[GrayPilgrim]

I thought Asbury was the Free Methodist's seminary and not affiliated with the UMC? I was rasied UMC, now see how "backslidden" I am, I'm a Calvinist who has rejected Amilleniumism :)

[geebob]

I thought Asbury was the Free Methodist's seminary

I'm %99.5 sure that they are not.

[phantaz sunlyk]

say hey y'all--peace in Christ.

i'm Roman Catholic.

shalom!

[GrayPilgrim]

phantaz sunlyk

What distinctives make you feel that Catholicism is the place for you as opposed to say Lutheran or Baptist? Just curious.

[geebob]

ahoy phantaz!

[Patroclus]

I am a part of the Assemblies of God denomination (but they perfer to call if a "Cooperative Fellowhip").

The A of G began in the 1920's after several Pentecostal revivals started breaking out in several areas around the United States. At first, the people who were affected by the revivals wanted to bring their blessing to their churches. However, the churches of that time were not generally accepting of this. So, in order that people who had been blessed in these revivals might experience some unity with each other, groups like the A of G and the Apostolic churches were formed.

From the A of G, you also have some other groups like The Four Square Church (you might recognize Jack Hayford) and the Church of God in Christ (COGIC). Pentecostals were generally seen as Marginal Protestants (as many view JW's and Mormons now) until the last twenty or thirty years.

I don't agree with all of the AG doctrines, but the church I am working for is paying me, and the school I go to is educating me, so I am cool with it for now.

[Revolg]

The A of G began in the 1920's after several Pentecostal revivals started breaking out in several areas around the United States. At first, the people who were affected by the revivals wanted to bring their blessing to their churches. However, the churches of that time were not generally accepting of this. So, in order that people who had been blessed in these revivals might experience some unity with each other, groups like the A of G and the Apostolic churches were formed.

The Apostolic Churches are the cults that are normally known as the United Pentecostal Church and the Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ. They deny the Trinity and faith alone for salvation. I have plenty of experience in dealing with them, as you can see at www.carm.org 's message board. Primarily people contact me when they want to know about the UPC because I used to be a member for the longest time.

I am from:

Baptist Family,

Denomination is known as the Association of Free Will Baptists. I am Calvinistic oriented but this is a good church to be. They aren't the neo-Pelagians that you normally encounter. I just like the fellowship and the biblical studies we have. I don't always agree on every point but they all know that. We make the church vibrant and are following the Lord.

Some History, a quote:

"The denomination sprang up on two fronts at almost the same time. The southern line, or Palmer movement, traces its beginnings to the year 1727 when one Paul Palmer organized a church at Chowan, North Carolina. Palmer had previously ministered in New Jersey and Maryland, having been baptized in a congregation which had moved from Wales to a trace on the Delaware River in northern Pennsylvania."

"The northern line, or Randall movement, had its beginnings with a congregation organized by Benjamin Randall June 30, 1780, in New Durham, New Hampshire. Both lines of Free Will Baptists taught the doctrines of free grace, free salvation and free will, although from the first there was no organizational connection between them."

"The northern line expanded more rapidly in the beginning and extended its outreach into the West and Southwest. In 1910-1911 this body of Free Will Baptists merged with the Northern Baptist denomination, taking along more than half its 1,100 churches and all denominational property, including several major colleges. On December 28, 1916, at Pattonsburg, Missouri, representatives of remnant churches in the Randall movement reorganized into the Cooperative General Association of Free Will Baptists."

"Free Will Baptists in the southeastern United States, having descended from the Palmer foundation, had often manifested fraternal relationships with Free Will Baptists of the Randall movement in the north and west; but the slavery question and the Civil War prevented formal union between them. The churches in the southern line were organized into various associations and conferences from the beginning and had finally organized into a General Conference by 1921. These congregations were not affected by the merger of the northern movement with the Northern Baptists."

http://www.nafwb.org/history.html

[Patroclus]

The Apostolic Churches are the cults that are normally known as the United Pentecostal Church and the Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Alright, I wasn't trying to spell out the merits of any denominations, just giving you some collateral backround with mine.

[phantaz sunlyk]

**7** say hey y'all. first of all, GEEBOB said:

ahoy phantaz!

**8** ahoy GEEBOB! do i know you?
next, GRAYPILGRIM asked--

What distinctives make you feel that Catholicism is the place for you as opposed to say Lutheran or Baptist? Just curious.

**7** there are many distinctives that pull me towards Catholicism. one of them is the continuity between Catholicism (and Eastern Orthodoxy) and the early Church. second, i don't believe in Sola Scriptura. third, Catholicism's adherence to the Incarnational principle--i can't stand it when people knock sacraments and talk as though "the faith act of the invisible soul is all that 'really' matters", etc.
those are a few of the things that pull me towards Catholicism.
peace in Christ!

[$cirisme]

Originally posted by Solly
Instead of knocking them, tell us about them. Which one(s) are you connected with, what's their history, etc?

I'm personally non-denominational, but I have nothing against denominations in general.

[Jaltus]

The EFCA is the only denomination to have churches dedicated to more than one race (meaning that there are Hispanic EFCA, White EFCA, Korean EFCA, etc) without having separate heirarchies for it.

The pre-mill position comes from rejecting dispyism as a necessity, but they were trying to keep out most amills since it began as a largely Arminian movement. The reason for the Arminian roots is that it came out of the anabaptist tradition in Sweden and Norway, hence the "Free" part of the moniker.

[Gavin]

Hey Patroclus, where does that Dave Matthews quote in your sig come from? I am a big Dave fan but that looks unfamiliar.

[automatthew]

Church of Christ (the no-instrumental-music CoC, not that other one).

matthew

[spl_cadet]

Like phantaz, I'm a member of the Catholic Church. Why the Catholic Church and not one of the myriad Protestant denominations? Because the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded. It is also the only Church that sticks 100% to orthodoxy.

[phantaz sunlyk]

say hey, its good to have ya here, bravo!
just out of curiosity, are you a fan of Ratzinger? i have his book on the Liturgy, its really good.
peace!

[spl_cadet]

Originally posted by phantaz sunlyk
say hey, its good to have ya here, bravo!
just out of curiosity, are you a fan of Ratzinger?

I've actually never read anything of his (though I've heard that he's one of the foremost theologians or something like that). My sig is something that I had thought up and thought was kinda funny. Plus it works as a nice disclaimer if I should lose in a debate :)

[GrayPilgrim]

Originally posted by Jaltus
The EFCA is the only denomination to have churches dedicated to more than one race (meaning that there are Hispanic EFCA, White EFCA, Korean EFCA, etc) without having separate heirarchies for it.

The pre-mill position comes from rejecting dispyism as a necessity, but they were trying to keep out most amills since it began as a largely Arminian movement. The reason for the Arminian roots is that it came out of the anabaptist tradition in Sweden and Norway, hence the "Free" part of the moniker.

Actually "Free" means free from state control, they were in opposition to the state controlled Lutheran churches.

:huh: And I don't understand your first sentence. [Boy this is weird Jaltus being incomprehensible]

[Wesley's son]

Grace and Peace all,

HI, This is my #1 post

I hail from the Church of the Nazarene, a holiness denomination in the Weslean-Arminian tradition.

Here is a link to our core beliefs page if anyone is curious.

http://www.nazarene.org/welcome/beliefs/articles_faith.html

[GrayPilgrim]

Originally posted by Wesley's son
Grace and Peace all,

HI, This is my #1 post

I hail from the Church of the Nazarene, a holiness denomination in the Weslean-Arminian tradition.

Here is a link to our core beliefs page if anyone is curious.

http://www.nazarene.org/welcome/beliefs/articles_faith.html

John or Charles? [okay lame joke]

How would the Church of the Nazarene differ from the Methodists?

[Jaltus]

My first sentence means this:

The EFCA is the only denomination that has multiple churches of different races ofindividual churches that are mostly a single race church.

In other words, there are Hispanic EFCs, black EFCs, Korean EFCs, Chinese EFCs. All other denominations have a separate structure for each race-group that has a church in the denomination. The EFCA has only one structure, and all the Korean churches and white churches etc belong to the same structure.

I hope that makes sense.

As for "Free" meaning free from state control, that is exactly why I linked it to the anabaptist movement. that was one of the few things all anabaptists agreed on.

[Wesley's son]

Originally posted by GrayPilgrim
John or Charles? [okay lame joke]

How would the Church of the Nazarene differ from the Methodists?

- taken from:

DENOMINATIONAL IDENTITY IN
HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE
Ronald R. Emptage - Assistant Professor NHR Spring Arbor College Spring Arbor, Michigan
January, 20, 1989

"What made the early Nazarenes different from the Methodists? Historian Timothy Smith gives five characteristics. First, the government of the church was thoroughly democratic. This action put the power of the church back into the hands of the congregation. Second, the chief aim of the church was to preach holiness to the poor. Third, the disciples of the church depended primarily upon the work of the Holy Spirit. (This meant that a sanctified person would follow a narrow life style.) The historic concepts of the Methodist Discipline were adapted by Dr. Bresee form the "General Rules," and included in the first Nazarene Manual. Fourth, the church creed was brief and make the doctrine of perfect love central. According to Smith, Dr. Bresee's doctrinal policy was 'liberality in all matters not, in his view, absolutely essential to salvation' (Smith, 1962). Finally, the Nazarene worship service was to be 'joyously free.' (page 17)"

- the "early" in the quote refers to about 100+/- years ago

I'll write back in a while for the answer in a present context.

(researching...


:read: )

[bar Jonah]

Originally posted by phantaz sunlyk
**7** say hey y'all. first of all, GEEBOB said:

ahoy phantaz!

**8** ahoy GEEBOB! do i know you?
next, GRAYPILGRIM asked--

What distinctives make you feel that Catholicism is the place for you as opposed to say Lutheran or Baptist? Just curious.

**7** there are many distinctives that pull me towards Catholicism. one of them is the continuity between Catholicism (and Eastern Orthodoxy) and the early Church. second, i don't believe in Sola Scriptura. third, Catholicism's adherence to the Incarnational principle--i can't stand it when people knock sacraments and talk as though "the faith act of the invisible soul is all that 'really' matters", etc.
those are a few of the things that pull me towards Catholicism.
peace in Christ!
Understandable, Phantaz. However, at a board that is going to host a significant amount of theological debate, you should keep in mind that (hopefully within the proper contexts), people are going to speak against many elements of Catholicism. You can choose not to take part in those threads, or you can choose to defend Catholicism, but you can be sure they will come up.

[smilax]

Phantaz skinned Evangelion ("kitty-bear" or something) once upon a time... I wouldn't worry too much about him.

[Pilgrim]

I am a member (and clergy in) the Presbyterian Church (USA) We are a reformed protestant church taking a lot of our theological cues from John Calvin and John Knox but affirming that Scripture is the final authority on matters of faith and religion.

We are a confessional/creedal church which means that we use the historic confessions of the church to aid us in understanding and proclaiming what it is we believe.

We have two sacraments: Baptism and the Lord's Supper. we place heavy wait on them and the Written word of God as means to finding God's grace. Thus my title in the church is "Minister of Word and Sacrament."

Women may hold ordained office in church and indeed we have a high commitment to diversity with in our denomination.

Our Church government is structured in a representational/democratic method. We have elders in the local congregation who then rerpresent us at the next geographic level called a presbytery. Presbytery sends representatives to the highest level, the General Assembly, which convenes once a year. (we are moving to a once every 2 years model shortly.)

Interesting historical fact: The signers of the US constitution and the Declaration of Independance were overwhelmingly Presbyterians and the US government was modled on Presbyterian polity.

There you have it!

[bar Jonah]

Originally posted by Pilgrim
Women may hold ordained office in church and indeed we have a high commitment to diversity with in our denomination.

There you have it!
I understood where you were coming from until this point. You make scripture your highest authority, but you put women in authority over men in your church?

[Pilgrim]

Originally posted by RightIdea
I understood where you were coming from until this point. You make scripture your highest authority, but you put women in authority over men in your church?

Here your assumption is that you have the inside track and the only correct understanding of Biblical principles.

Women in places of authority is not an essential tenet of Christianity for the precise reason that cogent arguments for and against it can be made.

[phantaz sunlyk]

**7** a quick 'un to RIGHT IDEA--

people are going to speak against many elements of Catholicism. You can choose not to take part in those threads, or you can choose to defend Catholicism, but you can be sure they will come up.

**8** s'okay wit you, s'okay wit me.
peace in Christ

[phantaz sunlyk]

**8** and to SPL_CADET--

My sig is something that I had thought up and thought was kinda funny.

**7** yes, very funny! had me laughin outloud.
peace.

[Chuck_D]

I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist. I'm starting to have serious doubts about our traditional understanding of prophecy, but still firmly believe in seventh-day Sabbath, so called "soul-sleep," and annihilationism.

[uber_loser]

I like Pilgrim am a memeber of a Presbyterian USA church (currently serving as an Elder). Although I do agree with the philosophy of the church I am there because that is where God has lead me to be. For what purpose I do not fully know yet. But that is where God wants me so until he lets me know different that is where I'll stay. (I was Episcopal but was raised Southern Baptist you might say I'm a protestant mutt):) oh yeah this is my 25 th post yeah I get an avatar whoo hoo!':D

[Rubia Warren]

Go Boromir... go Boromir.... it's ya birthday... go Boromir.....

[bar Jonah]

Chuck_D:
I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist. I'm starting to have serious doubts about our traditional understanding of prophecy, but still firmly believe in seventh-day Sabbath, so called "soul-sleep," and annihilationism.
Chuck D, how do you reconcile a continuation of the observance of the Sabbath when the author of Hebrews makes it explicitly clear that we have rested from our works permanently because Christ IS our Sabbath, and He IS our rest? 24 hours a day, 7 days a week...?

[Solly]

Pilgrim, RI, and whoever, let's keep this strictly to denominational matters; if it gets doctrinal or theological I hope y'all take it elsewhere. Thanks.

[bar Jonah]

Solly, I'm not meaning to be argumentative with you here, but only asking sincerely. Where do we draw the line in our discussion between the two groups of topics? Denominations are defined by their differences in theology, doctrine. Just looking for guidance. :)

[Pilgrim]

Hey Boromir, nice avatar! And wilcome Presby Brother!

[Solly]

S'alright RI.

I would like to hear from representatives of various denominations here; history, doctrinal stance if there is a particular peculiarity - or whether it would not be obvious we were charismatic or calvinist, connections with other denominations, ie "we came out of xxx denomination in 19xx".

The doctrinal discussions are ok, but they are usually within the catch-all of the forums, and might obscure the contributions from others if they ran and ran.

Thanks :hi:

[Lizard]

Pilgrim:
Hey Boromir, nice avatar! And wilcome Presby Brother!

I'm not even a Presby, but Boromir is still my Presby Brother;)

[bar Jonah]

Faramir, heck, I'm not a presby and I even go to a presby church. LOL

[Lizard]

RightIdea:
Faramir, heck, I'm not a presby and I even go to a presby church. LOL

Yes, but Boromir really is my brother.

:thumb:

[bar Jonah]

And I'm not? :(

[Lizard]

RightIdea:
And I'm not? :(

Of course you are my brother RI. However, Boromir and I actually have the same parents.

You, Boromir, and I are brothers in Christ.

Boromir is also, my brother in the strict lieteral sense.

:thumb:

[Pilgrim]

And Faramir can't do a little 'cause he can't do enough!

[GrayPilgrim]

Boy you caught someone else with this one ;)

Faramir:
Yes, but Boromir really is my brother.

:thumb:

[Lizard]

GrayPilgrim:
Boy you caught someone else with this one ;)

Not only are our character names (Faramir and Boromir) brothers in LOTR, but in real life we are brothers as well. I told him to check out tweb, and that my user name is Faramir. Of course being almost as big a Tolkien Geek as me :read: .......

[bar Jonah]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :idea:

And God said, "Let there be light." And there WAS light. ;)

[kiwimac]

Gudday from NZ,

I'm a Minister in the Community of Christ. My denomination's history shares some common points with both the LDS (Mormons) and the Disciples of Christ (Campbellites). Check out our beliefs at www.cofchrist.org/seek. :read:

There are about 250k of us world wide so not terribly big but then that is not always good either.

Take care

Kiwimac

[bar Jonah]

kiwimac:
Gudday from NZ,

I'm a Minister in the Community of Christ. My denomination's history shares some common points with both the LDS (Mormons) and the Disciples of Christ (Campbellites). Check out our beliefs at www.cofchrist.org/seek. :read:

There are about 250k of us world wide so not terribly big but then that is not always good either.

Take care

Kiwimac
Why would you openly claim anything in common with an antichrist cult like the Mormons? Especialyl considering they believe you are apostate and the lowest of sinners?

[Captain Ochre]

RightIdea:

Why would you openly claim anything in common with an antichrist cult like the Mormons? Especialyl considering they believe you are apostate and the lowest of sinners?

Uh, give him a break!
:)
The Community of Christ until recently was known as the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints (i'm correct in omitting the hyphen, iirc). It's the branch that recognized Joseph Smith's son as the heir to the spiritual reins of the church (apologies if the latter description is clumsy in CoC terms).
He's just being forthright regarding the origins of the CoC, afaics.

I'd been curious, btw--was the name changed to assist in establishing an identity at somewhat greater distance from the LDS church, or to identify more closely to non-LDS churches, or a little of both?

I welcome you, kiwimac, and applaud your interest in this board as well as the interest in church traditions apart from your own that this apparently signifies. And, no offense, but it's difficult for me to know whether or not I can call you "brother" in the spiritual sense, knowing what I do of the history of the respective churches. Greetings, brother in Adam.

[Captain Ochre]

Howdy.
My present non-denominationalism has history in the Episcopal, Baptist, Brethren, (unclassifiable Christian), and PCA churches.

By this time, I'm far from being obsessed with eschatology, so Dee-Dee won't have to worry about me putting her in her place.
She didn't hear that, did she?
:x

[bar Jonah]

Captain Ochre:
Uh, give him a break!
:)
The Community of Christ until recently was known as the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints (i'm correct in omitting the hyphen, iirc). It's the branch that recognized Joseph Smith's son as the heir to the spiritual reins of the church (apologies if the latter description is clumsy in CoC terms).
He's just being forthright regarding the origins of the CoC, afaics.
How does that change their antichrist status? Anything coming from the false prophet Joseph Smith is of the Prince of Lies. Paul calls them accursed. Their gospel is false, and they have no inheritance of the promise of Abraham.

[Captain Ochre]

RightIdea:

How does that change their antichrist status? Anything coming from the false prophet Joseph Smith is of the Prince of Lies. Paul calls them accursed. Their gospel is false, and they have no inheritance of the promise of Abraham.

Does it *need* to change their "antichrist status" if such it is? We allow J. F. Till to post here (no offense intended, Mr. Till).
Let the guy post here. Hear his view, give him yours. Give him credit for his honesty, even.
I'm not saying convert to CoC--I hope you don't, in fact.
:)

Extend a welcome, and may the truth run wild!

[bar Jonah]

Captain Ochre:


Does it *need* to change their "antichrist status" if such it is? We allow J. F. Till to post here (no offense intended, Mr. Till).
Let the guy post here. Hear his view, give him yours. Give him credit for his honesty, even.
I'm not saying convert to CoC--I hope you don't, in fact.
:)

Extend a welcome, and may the truth run wild!
I thought the truth was already running wild. What do you think the purpose of my posts was? :)

[Captain Ochre]

RightIdea:

I thought the truth was already running wild. What do you think the purpose of my posts was? :)

My only caveat regarding your post was the fact that you were appalled that he would connect his church to the Smith tradition. It seems perfectly appropriate for him to do so, since it's historically accurate of him to do so.
I guess I also favor the approach listening & teaching prior to upbraiding, where there are marked differences of opinion.
;)
Particularly in a world dipped in postmodernism.

[edit to add]
d'oh! I'm telling the moderator his business!
:x

[kiwimac]

Capt. Ochre,

Thank you so much for your warm welcome. I always wondered just what the Mysterons looked like, didn't you?

As for you Right Idea,

I perceive a prejudice there. You see, normally one does not respond so forcibly to another person's religous / philosophical / political beliefs without there being some kind of pre-judgement factoring into the equation.

The only commonalities that the Community of Christ and the LDS church share are, Joseph Smith, jr. ; The Book of Mormon and some early sections of the Doctrines and Covenants.

Please allow me to quote from our basic beliefs

Our Mission

We proclaim Jesus Christ and promote communities of joy, hope, love, and peace.

We Offer...

a community of people where the gospel of Jesus Christ is the focus of worship, learning, caring, and mission.

an opportunity for genuine spiritual growth and relationship with the Holy Spirit.

local congregations where deep friendships are established, individual ideas are valued, and where those special needs find security, care, and support.

a faith community that encourages the ministry of all people, including children and youth.

a global community with a worldwide mission that values all cultures and celebrates the rich diversity of human life.

meaningful opportunities to serve Jesus Christ by helping others and promoting peace.

Our Faith and Beliefs

Recognizing that the perception of truth is always qualified by human nature and experience, there is no official church creed that must be accepted by all members. However, through the years various statements, such as those listed below, have been developed to present the generally accepted beliefs of the church. All people are encouraged to study the scriptures, to participate in the life and mission of the church, and to examine their own experiences as they grow in understanding and response to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

God

The one eternal, living God is triune: one God in three persons. The God who meets us in the testimony of Israel is the same God who meets us in Jesus Christ, and who indwells creation as the Holy Spirit. God is the Eternal Creator, the source of love, life, and truth. God actively loves and cares for each person. All things that exist owe their being to God who alone is worthy of our worship.

Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ is "God with us," the Son of God, and the living expression of God in the flesh. Jesus Christ lived, was crucified, died, and rose again. The nature, love, and purpose of God are most clearly seen in Jesus Christ, our Savior.

Spirit

The Holy Spirit is the continuing presence of God in the world. The Spirit works in our minds and hearts through intelligence, comfort, guidance, love, and power to sustain, inspire, and remake us.

Salvation

God loves us even though we are sinful. Through the ministry of Christ and the presence of the Holy Spirit, we are able to turn to God and receive the gifts of salvation and eternal life. Those who accept the gospel are called to respond to Christ through baptism and committed discipleship. As individuals exercise faith in Christ and follow his example and teachings, they become new people.

The Church

Christian discipleship is most fully possible when it is pursued in a community of committed believers. The church, as part of the body of Christ, is the means through which the ministry of Christ continues in the world today. It is a community of people seeking to bring God's love to all through compassionate ministry, worship, the sacraments, and witness.

Revelation

The process through which God reveals divine will and love is called revelation. God continues to reveal today as in the past. God is revealed to us through scripture, the faith community, prayer, nature, and in human history.

Scripture

The scriptures provide divine guidance and inspired insight for life when responsibly interpreted and faithfully applied. With other Christians, we affirm the Bible as scripture for the church. In our tradition, the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants are additional scriptural witnesses of God’s love and Christ’s ministry.

Sacraments

The sacraments express the continuing presence of Christ through the church. They help us establish and continually renew our relationship with God. Through them we establish or reaffirm our covenant with God in response to God's grace. The sacraments of the church are baptism, confirmation of membership, the Lord's Supper (Communion), marriage, blessing of children, administration to the sick, ordination to the priesthood, and the evangelist's blessing.

Human Worth

God loves each of us equally and unconditionally. All persons have great worth and should be respected as creations of God with basic human rights. The willingness to love and accept others is essential to faithfulness to the gospel of Christ.

All Are Called

All men, women, youth, and children are given gifts and abilities to enhance life and to become involved in Christ's mission. Some are called to particular responsibility as ordained ministers (priesthood) in the church. The church provides for a wide range of priesthood ministries through calling and ordination of both men and women.

Free Agency

All people are free to choose, resulting in real consequences of good and evil to our lives, the lives of others, and our environment. Commitment to Christ, sensitivity to the Holy Spirit, and participation in the faith community help people make responsible choices that enhance human life and respect creation.

Stewardship

All things were created by God and should be used for God’s purposes. Stewardship is the wise management of gifts and resources to enrich personal, family, congregational, and community life, as well as utilizing natural resources for the good of all creation.

The Kingdom

God's kingdom is present wherever people acknowledge the lordship of God over life, relationships, and creation. The full coming of the kingdom awaits the final victory over evil when divine rule is established and justice, peace, and righteousness prevail.

Zion

The "cause of Zion" expresses our commitment to pursuing God's kingdom through the establishment of Christ-centered communities in families, congregations, neighborhoods, cities, and throughout the world.

Peace

Because of our commitment to Christ and belief in the worth of all people and the value of community building, we dedicate our lives to the pursuit of peace and justice for all people.

Resurrection

God conserves and renews life as revealed in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, a sign of God's ultimate victory over death. In Christ’s resurrection, we find hope and courage for living. Through resurrection, God transforms individuals, bringing them into the fullness of eternal life.

Judgment

Our eternal destiny is determined by God according to divine wisdom and love and according to our response to God's call to us. God's judgment is just and is based on the kind of people we have become in relation to the potential of our lives.

End Time

God is acting in history to reconcile all creation to divine purpose. The meaning and end to which history moves is revealed in Christ. The ultimate victory of righteousness and peace over injustice, evil, and sin is assured because of the unfailing love of God and the conviction that Christ is coming again.

You are invited to continue exploring the mission, faith, and beliefs of the church by visiting one of our local congregations. Countless people have found hope for their lives and encountered the living Christ through the ministries, sacraments, teachings, and mission of the church.

Perhaps, friend, you would do better to research before responding in knee-jerk fashion. Moreover, It does you no credit to judge a church of people as lacking when you, presumably, know none of us.

Grace and peace

Kiwimac

[Sinapis nigra]

THE
BOOK OF MORMON

AN ACCOUNT WRITTEN BY

THE HAND OF MORMON

UPON PLATES


TAKEN FROM THE PLATES OF NEPHI
Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God.


An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven—Which is to show unto the remnant of the House of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever— And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that JESUS is the CHRIST, the ETERNAL GOD, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.



TRANSLATED BY JOSEPH SMITH, JUN.

scriptures.lds.org/bm/contents (http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/contents)

I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints!


Originaly posted by so-called "RightIdea"
Why would you openly claim anything in common with an antichrist cult like the Mormons? Especialyl considering they believe you are apostate and the lowest of sinners?

To set the record straight from someone who knows and to stop the propegation of lies and fallacies WE DO NOT CONSIDER THE COMMUNITY OF CHRIST TO BE "APOSTATE" OR "THE LOWEST OF SINNERS" THAT IS A LIE MUTTERED IN IGNORANCE! THEY ARE OUR DEAR BROTHERS AND HAVE ACCEPTED MORE TRUTH THAN MANY OTHERS HAVE!!!

I would ask you to not speak in behalf of other faiths. You are in no place to do so and you have demonstrated your blatant ignorance in the matter. Thank you.

I invite all to test the Book of Mormon for yourselves rather than simply believing the rantings of someone none of us really know.

God bless you all (including you RightIdea!)

THE TESTIMONY OF
EIGHT WITNESSES
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

CHRISTIAN WHITMER
JACOB WHITMER
PETER WHITMER, JUN.
JOHN WHITMER
HIRAM PAGE
JOSEPH SMITH, SEN.
HYRUM SMITH
SAMUEL H. SMITH

[Solly]

We're getting quite a cross section here. Thanks for your contributions everyone. At the very least, we can foster some UNDERSTANDING, although agreement is not likely. But I hope we can all post in hope of getting a hearing, be we Orthodox, Heretic, Atheist or Apostate - and, being unavoidably Postmodern, some of those terms depend on where you are standing. This isn't the Inquisition after all. It would be nice to think that we can also get beyond debating the fact of our othodoxy, to debating issues; we might be pleasantly surprised at our similarities, at least as human beings.

Keep them coming

[kiwimac]

Hmmm,

I wonder what this smiley looks like :spam:

weee hooo!! :yipee:



Kiwimac

[Captain Ochre]

Solly:
This isn't the Inquisition after all.

It's not?
<captain ochre reluctantly picks up the at-the-ready rack and softe cushions and returns them to the dish drainer & couch, respectively>

[Solly]

And the rest, CO: thumb screws, nose pincers, foot ticklers, complete set videos of Benny Hinn: The Golden Years.

[bar Jonah]

Sinapis nigra:
To set the record straight from someone who knows and to stop the propegation of lies and fallacies WE DO NOT CONSIDER THE COMMUNITY OF CHRIST TO BE &quot;APOSTATE&quot; OR &quot;THE LOWEST OF SINNERS&quot; THAT IS A LIE MUTTERED IN IGNORANCE! THEY ARE OUR DEAR BROTHERS AND HAVE ACCEPTED MORE TRUTH THAN MANY OTHERS HAVE!!!
To set the record straight from someone who knows and to stop the propegation of lies and fallacies ... I find it very strange that you would say this, as a Mormon friend of mine has told me the exact opposite. I have met with him and elders from the Mormon Church, and they have all made it explicitly clear to me that anyone who has been a part of the Mormon Church proper and then has left, or who belongs to an organization that has split off from the Mormon Church, is considered Apostate and are considered to be the absolute worst form of sinner. Such a person's sin cannot even be paid by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ; it can only be paid by that person's own blood. This Mormon theological principle is called "Blood atonement," taught by Brigham Young, who not only condoned but exhorted the killing of such a person, not only for the good of the community but even for the good of such an apostate sinner. Brigham Young even went so far as to say that a man had come to him begging to be put to death based on this very principle.

So, Sinapis Nigra, I find your statement of support for Kiwimac bizarre, to say the least. But I also find strange your willingness to post the testimony of the Eight Witnesses... considering most of the Witnesses later recanted and openly proclaimed Joseph Smith to be a liar, a heretic, a false prophet. In fact, Peter Whitmer wrote a book solely on this subject. The Mormon Church openly admits this... so what is the value of proclaiming the testimony of these "witnesses?

Capt. Ochre, you said:
My only caveat regarding your post was the fact that you were appalled that he would connect his church to the Smith tradition. It seems perfectly appropriate for him to do so, since it's historically accurate of him to do so.
I guess I also favor the approach listening & teaching prior to upbraiding, where there are marked differences of opinion.

Particularly in a world dipped in postmodernism.

[edit to add]
d'oh! I'm telling the moderator his business!
And you are right, my brother. I stand convicted by your words, and I thank you for correcting me. While I do not in the least way apologize for my words, I do apologize for my timing. I should have been more appropriate and judicious in how and when I decry the false prophet, Joseph Smith, and the lies of the Book of Mormon.

[kiwimac]

Actually Right Idea,

As I understand Brigham Young and the Doctrine of Blood Atonement it only obtains where the person had been a member of the LDS church & then became something else.

Most modern LDS do not accept the Doctrine of Blood Atonement as applying to anyone except murderers.

As for the Book of Mormon, have you actually ever read it? other than to pick holes in that is?

Kiwimac

[Captain Ochre]

Howdy.
I did a google search for "Brigham Young" and "blood atonement" and an antimormon site indicates that Young's sermon describing blood atonement is found in Journal of Discourses Vol. IV p 215-221.
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/jofdvol4p215_221brighambloodatonement.htm

If my library were more organized at the moment, I would double-check myself to confirm that the reference is accurate. I see hints that your stated view of blood atonement affirmed, but I see a number of indications that involuntary bloodshed is also seen as an efficacious way to solve the guilt of sin.
Read it and see what you think.

[kiwimac]

Capt. Ochre,

Thanks for that. I had read that particular reference many years ago but hadn't been interested enough to look for it again. So thanks for the hard work on my behalf:yipee:

AS for the Doctrine of Blood Atonement. Well, Brigham Young, what more can I say?, the Community of Christ, did not / does not recognise his claim to prophethood, our church formed around Joseph Smith III about 10 or so years after BY and the majority of the rest of the Twelve Apostles headed off on the journey that would eventually lead them to the Great salt Lake Valley.

From the Community of Christ History pages

URL: http://www.cofchrist.org/seek/history.asp

... Following Joseph's death the church was in a state of confusion and disorganization for several years, and divided into factions. The largest group moved westward to the Great Salt Lake Valley under the direction of an influential church leader, Brigham Young. Smaller factions scattered in all directions.

The Reorganized Church came into being in the 1850s. The "Reorganization" believed that Joseph Smith Jr. had designated his eldest son, Joseph III, to be his successor as president of the church. The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was organized on April 6, 1860, at Amboy, Illinois, under the leadership of Joseph Smith III. His leadership spanned 54 years marked by wisdom and sensitivity. His presidency saw the church grow from a small fragmented group to a church of over 70,000 persons with representation throughout the United States and in several other countries. Since April 1920, the official corporate headquarters of the church has been in Independence, Missouri.

In 1915, Frederick Madison Smith succeeded his father in the presidency. He emphasized the social expression of the gospel, advocating the establishment of Zionic conditions merging both spiritual and temporal dimensions. After his death in 1946, Frederick M. Smith was succeeded by his brother, Israel A. Smith.

Israel A.Smith’s twelve years of presidency were marked by a postwar, post-depression search for stability and growth. However, due to his pastoral caring personality, the period provided a growing unity unprecedented in the church's history. It was highlighted by an increased missionary emphasis and progress toward completion of the Auditorium in Independence, Missouri, the headquarters building Frederick M. had conceived and begun many years earlier.

In 1958, W. Wallace Smith became the third of Joseph III's sons to follow him in the presidency. His presidency experienced the expansion of the church into other Western and non-Western cultures. The 1960s and 1970s were marked by evaluation of program and message and the adoption of a more decentralized style of church administration.

In 1976, W. Wallace Smith designated his son, Wallace B. Smith, to succeed him as prophet-president after a two-year period of preparation. Wallace B. Smith was ordained to the office in 1978 and presided over the church's sesquicentennial celebrations in 1980.

In 1995, President Wallace B. Smith designated W. Grant McMurray as his successor upon his retirement in April 1996. McMurray was ordained at the 1996 World Conference in Independence, Missouri, and currently presides over the church.

Delegates at the church's 2000 World Conference passed legislation to change the name of the church to Community of Christ--a name that more adequately represents the church's theology and mission: "We proclaim Jesus Christ and promote communities of joy, hope, love, and peace." On April 6, 2001, the anniversary of the church's 1830 founding, the church officially became Community of Christ..."

Kiwimac

[ItalianGold]

Greetings all,

I am a new member and with some trepidation I am posting here. I am agnostic...in the true sense. I am a seeker, a former RC and someone who has spent the last two decades (of several) examining various theologies and my own heart.

Out of respect for all people of all faiths I hope to be able to engage in meaningful dialog without resorting to personal attacks.

[Pilgrim]

ItalianGold:
Greetings all,

I am a new member and with some trepidation I am posting here. I am agnostic...in the true sense. I am a seeker, a former RC and someone who has spent the last two decades (of several) examining various theologies and my own heart.

Out of respect for all people of all faiths I hope to be able to engage in meaningful dialog without resorting to personal attacks.

Welcome Italian gold! Glad to have you here with us. Feel free to post candidly!

Pilgrim

[Sinapis nigra]

Wow. I just figured it out. I was having such a difficult time with this site it must have been the Apple computers here on campus just don't jive well with the setup. I'd been trying for a while to get a response but they weren't letting me. It's much easier on the PC's.


02-12-2003 @ 03:34 PM
RightIdea:


To set the record straight from someone who knows and to stop the propegation of lies and fallacies ... I find it very strange that you would say this, as a Mormon friend of mine has told me the exact opposite. I have met with him and elders from the Mormon Church, and they have all made it explicitly clear to me that anyone who has been a part of the Mormon Church proper and then has left, or who belongs to an organization that has split off from the Mormon Church, is considered Apostate and are considered to be the absolute worst form of sinner.

We only believe those who themselves brake with it not their postarity or friends they may find after breaking. As far as the worst form of a sinner you would have to have recieved ALOT(that's alot more than many members of our faith have) of light from God then turn against it to have done something unforgivable.

Such a person's sin cannot even be paid by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ; it can only be paid by that person's own blood. This Mormon theological principle is called &quot;Blood atonement,&quot; taught by Brigham Young, who not only condoned but exhorted the killing of such a person, not only for the good of the community but even for the good of such an apostate sinner. Brigham Young even went so far as to say that a man had come to him begging to be put to death based on this very principle.

Again I really believe one must know exactly what their talking about and have a good base in our true beliefs before they try to claim to understand statements made by a prophet regarding blood atonement or any deeper facet of our beliefs.

So, Sinapis Nigra, I find your statement of support for Kiwimac bizarre, to say the least. But I also find strange your willingness to post the testimony of the Eight Witnesses... considering most of the Witnesses later recanted and openly proclaimed Joseph Smith to be a liar, a heretic, a false prophet. In fact, Peter Whitmer wrote a book solely on this subject. The Mormon Church openly admits this... so what is the value of proclaiming the testimony of these &quot;witnesses?

While it is true that many left the church and some actually turned and fought against the prophet NONE ever recalled what they said. Many people have taken out of context what Peter Whitmer was saying. If you actually read it in context rather than from some anti-mormon site you would realize how horribly out of context they are. This is the power of their witnesses. The fact that they ended up having great reason to recant but not one ever did.

Capt. Ochre, you said:

And you are right, my brother. I stand convicted by your words, and I thank you for correcting me. While I do not in the least way apologize for my words, I do apologize for my timing. I should have been more appropriate and judicious in how and when I decry the false prophet, Joseph Smith, and the lies of the Book of Mormon.

I apologize if the way I have gone about responding has seemed in any way lacking in charity I am human and I do make mistakes which I always try to appologize for but I do not appologize for my beliefs for to do so would be to lie.

[ThePhy]

02-27-2003 @ 10:18 PM
Sinapis nigra:

...While it is true that many left the church and some actually turned and fought against the prophet NONE ever recalled what they said. ... This is the power of their witnesses. The fact that they ended up having great reason to recant but not one ever did....
In the early 1840s after Oliver Cowdery left the Mormon Church and before Joseph’s death, the primary Mormon newspaper was called the Times and Seasons. In Volume 2, on Page 482 we find the following poem published:

BY J. M. JOHNSONS.

"The wise shall understand" - Daniel

Amazed with wonder! I look round
To see most people of our day,
Reject the glorious gospel sound,
Because the simple turn away.
Or does it prove there is no time,
Because some watches will not go?
But does it prove there is no crime
Because not punished here below?
Or can it prove no gems remain,
Because some fools, throw their's away?
Or can it prove no king can reign
Because some subject wont obey?
Or prove the gospel was not true
Because old Paul the Saints could kill?
Because the Jews its author slew,
And now reject their Saviour [Savior] still?
Or prove that Christ was not the Lord
Because that Peter cursed and swore?
Or Book of Mormon not his word
Because denied, by Oliver?
Or prove, that Joseph Smith is false
Because apostates say tis so?
Or prove, that God, no man exalts
Because from priests such doctrines flow?
O, no! the wise will surely say;
No proof unto the man that's wise,
Then O! dig deep ye wise to-day;
And soon the truth will be your prize.
Not like the fool who chanc'd to see,
The Saint forsake his heavenly course,
And turn to sin and vanity-
Then cries your "scheme is all a farce."
Notice in the lower half is the statement “Or Book of Mormon not his word, Because denied, by Oliver…”

This rather interesting poem seems to be at odds with what Sinapis Nigra is saying about no one (of the witnesses) ever turning against what they had said.

[Sinapis nigra]

03-17-2003 @ 12:15 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=37324#post37324)
ThePhy:


In the early 1840s after Oliver Cowdery left the Mormon Church and before Joseph’s death, the primary Mormon newspaper was called the Times and Seasons. In Volume 2, on Page 482 we find the following poem published:


Notice in the lower half is the statement “Or Book of Mormon not his word, Because denied, by Oliver…”

This rather interesting poem seems to be at odds with what Sinapis Nigra is saying about no one (of the witnesses) ever turning against what they had said.

It does not specificaly say that he denied the Book of Mormon. The denial seem's to be refering to the 'he' of "his word" likely God or Joseph Smith. It also does not state what exactly aspect was being denied. The word denied has so many possible levels that it could be taken at in this cintext. For you to imply that it means what you want it to say is rather misleading.

Regardless the statement in the poem does not mean that Oliver denied specificaly the Book of Mormon.

[nomad]

hello. i just started attending an AMiA church. AMiA is a more conservative wing of the Anglican/Episcopal church (AMiA = Anglican Mission in America; the head of it is in Senegal iirc). The anglican church's roots are well known; the AMiA has been around 10-20 years in response to the perceived growing liberalism of the mainline episcopal church (similar to the charismatic episcopal church, but unlike CE they are still technically inside the anglican communion).

though i have an AG background (which is pretty cool, because the priest at my church also came from the AG), and grew up in a non-charismatic independent church ('christian', part of the restoration movement).

[Bill the Cat]

Funny, I thought this thread was to tell everyone about our denominations...:huh:

[rogero]

I'm thoroughly enjoying this discussion!

I come from a varied church background. From birth-11 years, was part of an Assemblies of God church -- got my earliest and most basic Sunday school training there, from 11 - 25 years, attended, was baptized (at 18) and became a member of a Conservative Baptist church (CBA -- headquartered in Denver) -- they were Calvinist, non-Pentecostal, and "mildly" Fundamentalist, from 25-31 I attended (and got married in!) an Evangelical Free Church (already discussed in this thread) -- BTW, I found it quite similar to the CBA (albeit, the particular local church was much larger) -- quite "congregational", then for two years attended a Free Methodist church -- also in most ways indistinguishable from the EFCA and CBA churches, then I was "backslidden" for about ten, then looked around and started attending an LCMS church (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) -- very different and interesting -- preaching is similiar to the others, but the liturgical and sacramental aspects are very different, and I find to be very beautiful. also, I really like the idea of "tradition" at this juncture of my life -- the inception of late middle-age... :-) I really have no opinion about which denomination is "better", I view them all as wonderfully beautiful slices of the body of Christ -- different flavors -- same Lord of my life. If I had to sum things up for me, I believe in "mere Christianity" as put forth by C.S. Lewis -- the essence of which is the Incarnation, substitutionary death, and glorious Resurrection of Christ, salvation by His grace, and the Hope of eternal life -- everything else is secondary.

Thanks for bearing with me in this tedious post...

Roger

[One Bad Pig]

I grew up in an independent (we labeled ourselves "evangelical, fundamental") quite closely aligned with the Baptist Church (my first pastor helped start a Baptist church in a nearby town). I would no longer be able to enter membership there, as a belief in a Pre-
Trib Rapture is required. In the navy(6 yrs), I didn't go to church much at all (attended a CoC a few times). In college, I attended a campus fellowship run by the C&MA (Christian & Missionary Alliance) church, where I was an elder (all leadership positions except the pastor were filled by students). I now attend a Southern Baptist church, b/c there is no C&MA church in the area. My pastor's really cool; he's not afraid to poke fun at himself or extra-biblical Baptist tradition (i.e., no dancing).

[Seasanctuary]

I'm formerly of the Church of Christ. Their distinctives involve allergy to being called a "denomination," baptismal regeneration, exclusion of women from lots of things, strict 66 book canon, Armenianism, ixnay on the musical instruments, communion every Sunday, and Southern home cooking. <- Not the official list. ;)

So far as I know...eschatology, age of the Earth, style of Hell, etc. are not well defined for the sect. (I.e. they don't harp on it constantly and effectively excommunicate your congregation for it.)

They also tend to think that all other Christian sects are hellbound and that they are the one true "Lord's Church." Of course, there are more liberal versions within the sect, but they get discriminated against as giving into the devil or some such.

[Rusty T]

I was raised United Pentecostal (apostalic "jesus-only") for the first 12 years of my life. We moved to an Assembly of God church and then were quickly denounced by our former congregation for "believing in three gods." My wife and I met here in the AG, and I've been associated with them and like-minded independent Pentecostal churches in the South for years. They are of the classical Pentecostal mindset and therefore are more conservative.

Lately I've been exploring the Orthodox Church. I like the connection between The Now and the first century. There's a richness in their teachings, a depth and understanding that is in stark contrast to just about everything I've come to believe about Christianity. And if their claim to being the True Church is true - that's where I want to be. Unfortunately I have no local parish nearby, and I have only been able to fellowship via the internet.

[Jude3b]

I AM NON-DENOMINATIONAL AND I ATTEND A NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHRISTIAN CHURCH. The reason I attend a non-denominational church of God is because denominations seem to violate the Word of God. Our creed is the Bible, the whole Bible and nothing but the Bible. We do not add to it and we do not take away from it.
The church is the body of Christ. "And hath put all things under his (Christ's) feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all" (Eph. 1:22, 23).
Sectarianism, Roman Catholicism, Protestantism and all world religions scatter and divide the true sheep of the Lord, mixing and mingling them with the filthy goats and ravenous wolves of false professors, in hundreds of separate folds, and leaves them prey to every foul spirit sent forth by the destroyer to blind, mislead, and deceive honest souls. Remember, we are not wrestling against people, but against Satan and his forces (Eph. 6:10-12)
Sincerely, Jude 3b

[rogero]

Greetings all,

I am a new member and with some trepidation I am posting here. I am agnostic...in the true sense. I am a seeker, a former RC and someone who has spent the last two decades (of several) examining various theologies and my own heart.

Out of respect for all people of all faiths I hope to be able to engage in meaningful dialog without resorting to personal attacks.


I won't attack you if you won't attack me. ;-) As much as it's in my power, you're certainly welcome here, as much as anyone. BTW, the "fish Darwin" logo is interesting, it was the bumper sticker of a former faculty member at my RC college who was an "atheist Jew" -- interesting combination, and not all uncommon designation, so I've heard.

[Curt]

This thread seems to have been inactive for a while, so I think I'll use it for my maiden post on this board.

I am pastor of a congregation affiliated with the Conservative Baptist Association, a relatively small group with a wide divergence of traditions and practices. They all seem to fall within the general circle of being both Baptist and Conservative, however.

I was trained at a Presyterian seminary and still consider myself a Presbyterian. I did have trouble with what I viewed as liberalizing tendencies in my last Presyterian denomination, however (I will NOT mention which one. Don't even ask).

The last congregation I served was a Congregational church in the United Church of Christ, one of the most liberal denominations in the US. That congregation was happy to have a conservative, Christian, pastor.

I view myself as a conservative, calvinistic Christian. I will serve where called, but I hope I don't get called antwhere else. I'd like to live out my days here in rural Maine.

[masserafamily]

Solly,


I am on my way to visit the 3rd GSSB church in Sheboygan, WI. I would like to talk more. Please email me at masserafamily@juno.com..