Brain diseases like...MS?

[Woman]

It has come to my attention that Sozo is once again "demonizing" victims of disease.

It is bad enough that he declares schizophrenia to be a lie. Now he wants us to believe that he has inside knowledge (Biblical?) that multiple sclerosis is a brain disease, which anyone with a modicum of medical knowledge knows is an ignorant statement.

MS is a tragic neurological disease. Multiple sclerosis is a chronic, often disabling disease that attacks the central nervous system. Symptoms may be mild, such as numbness in the limbs, or severe, such as paralysis or loss of vision. The progress, severity, and specific symptoms of MS in any one person cannot be predicted. The symptoms of MS may include tingling, numbness, painful sensations, slurred speech, and blurred or double vision. Some people experience muscle weakness, poor balance, poor coordination, muscle tightness or spasticity, or paralysis that may be temporary or permanent. Problems with bladder, bowel, or sexual function are common, as is fatigue. MS can cause cognitive changes such as forgetfulness or difficulty concentrating. Apparantly Sozo believes this properly defines "brain disease."

Anyway, the purpose of this thread to to ask others to post their opinions about the following statements. I have not been able to find any answers in scripture. Are these really religious issues?

1. Schizophrenia is not a disease and is often caused by demons.

2. Mental illness is a conspiracy on the part of the medical community.

3. Brain and mind are totally different.

4. Introspection causes insanity.

5. Contemplative prayer and meditation are dangerous practices which may result in demonic possession.

[Rubia Warren]

Uhhh, where did you come up with number 5?

[Woman]

La Rubia:

Uhhh, where did you come up with number 5?

Broma muy divertida - ha ha ha

Uh...it comes after 4?

[Warcraft3]

Woman:

Here are my responces to the following:


1. Schizophrenia is not a disease and is often caused by demons.

My answer to the first part is of course its a disease. My answer to the second part is there are many causes for disease or sickness. And I believe on rare occasions disease may be related to spiritual bondage or sin. But these are the exceptions, not the rule. When one examines the miracles of Christ or the apostales several things are evident.
1. Most people who were sick DID NOT get healed.
2. Of the people who were sick and did get healed only a MINORITY are reported as having the affliction due to spiritual matters.
3. The purpose of healing a sick person is never JUST to stop the physical sickness. There was always a "bigger reason" when God did such things.



2. Mental illness is a conspiracy on the part of the medical community..
Is mental illness a conspiracy? My answer can be found here:
http://www.bvvp.com/images/no.jpg

There is a such thing as mental illness just as there is other types of illness.


3. Brain and mind are totally different..

Hmmmmm..... I wouldnt say TOTALLY different, but I believe there is a difference yes. There is alot of interesting research going trying to answer this very question.


4. Introspection causes insanity..

http://www.bvvp.com/images/no.jpg


5. Contemplative prayer and meditation are dangerous practices which may result in demonic possession..

http://www.bvvp.com/images/no.jpg


Those are my answers. :teeth: (by the way good questions)


Russ

:rockon:

[Sozo]

This is what I get for studying something published by the oh so consistent medical community :argh:

http://www.med.rug.nl/nch/zwanikkensum.pdf

And from the official MS association website...


What is Multiple Sclerosis?

Multiple Sclerosis (MS) is an illness diagnosed in over 350,000 persons in the United States today. Even now, much is to be learned. In brief, what is known about MS is that it is signified by more than one (multiple) area of inflammation and scarring of the myelin in the brain and spinal cord. Myelin is the tissue that covers and protects our nerve fibers. When this occurs, nerve "communication" is disrupted. Thus, a person with MS experiences varying degrees of neurological impairment depending on the location and extent of the scarring. Although there is no known cure for MS at this time, there is much that can be done to make your life easier

Sounds to me that what happens in the brain effects the nervous system.

I'd respond to your other inane comments, but you just wouldn't understand.

[Rubia Warren]

Today @ 07:19 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=71317#post71317)
Woman:

La Rubia:


Broma muy divertida - ha ha ha

Uh...it comes after 4?

:hrm: Are you SURE it does?:hrm:

[Dee Dee Warren]

1. Schizophrenia is not a disease and is often caused by demons.

It is a disease, but the same symptons came be displayed by demon possessed persons.

2. Mental illness is a conspiracy on the part of the medical community.

No

3. Brain and mind are totally different.

Depends. Yes and no.

4. Introspection causes insanity.

It can but that is not the cause of all mental illness by any stretch.

5. Contemplative prayer and meditation are dangerous practices which may result in demonic possession.

Could be... too vague, so my answer is a qualified yes.

[Woman]

steadele:

My answer to the first part is of course its a disease. My answer to the second part is there are many causes for disease or sickness. And I believe on rare occasions disease may be related to spiritual bondage or sin. But these are the exceptions, not the rule.

Interesting and thoughtful response, Russ. When you say spiritual bondage or sin can you give examples? Is this the same as "demons?" In other words, could "demon" the way it's used in the Bible be a sort of metaphor?

steadele-regarding brain and mind:

Hmmmmm..... I wouldnt say TOTALLY different, but I believe there is a difference yes. There is alot of interesting research going trying to answer this very question.

I'd like to discuss this more thoroughly. Not to pin you down, and not to hold you to scriptural authority...but what are the differences?

RE: your answers to the other questions...http://www.bvvp.com/images/no.jpg - obviously I agree completely.

Sozo:

This is what I get for studying something published by the oh so consistent medical community

Oh no, not at all. This is what you get for deliberately mis-representing a disease. I suppose you think that squamous cell lung cancer which metastacizes to the brain is a "brain disease."

This is from the official MS site.

Multiple sclerosis is a chronic, often disabling disease that attacks the central nervous system. Symptoms may be mild, such as numbness in the limbs, or severe, such as paralysis or loss of vision. The progress, severity, and specific symptoms of MS in any one person cannot be predicted. The symptoms of MS may include tingling, numbness, painful sensations, slurred speech, and blurred or double vision. Some people experience muscle weakness, poor balance, poor coordination, muscle tightness or spasticity, or paralysis that may be temporary or permanent. Problems with bladder, bowel, or sexual function are common, as is fatigue. MS can cause cognitive changes such as forgetfulness or difficulty concentrating.

You neglect to mention that it can be confined to the spinal cord, for instance.

sozo

I'd respond to your other inane comments, but you just wouldn't understand.

Are you honestly saying that my questions are empty, lacking significance or meaning? And that I lack the intellectual ability to comprehend your deep responses? Or do you just not want to risk being challenged on your answers?

la rubia:

Uhhh, where did you come up with number 5?
Woman: uhhh, it comes after 4?

la rubia:

:hrm: Are you SURE it does?:hrm:

Yes. did you want to contribute to the thread?


Dee Dee:

1. Schizophrenia is not a disease and is often caused by demons.

It is a disease, but the same symptons came be displayed by demon possessed persons.

You're saying that, while schizophrenia is a disease, the symptoms of paranoia, hearing voices, etc. in someone without mental illness could be due to demonic possession?


2. Mental illness is a conspiracy on the part of the medical community.

No

3. Brain and mind are totally different.

Depends. Yes and no.

heh heh - So, they are totally different and not totally different? Would you care to elaborate at all?


4. Introspection causes insanity.

It can but that is not the cause of all mental illness by any stretch.

5. Contemplative prayer and meditation are dangerous practices which may result in demonic possession.

Could be... too vague, so my answer is a qualified yes.

I'll try to be more specific. Are contemplative prayer and meditation, as practiced in scripture, dangerous? Might they lead to insanity? A quick search gave many references. Here a a few Biblical ones for meditation.


Joshua 1:8
Genesis 24:63
1 Chron.16:9
Psalm 1:2
Psalm 4:4
Psalm 27:4
Psalm 77:6
Isiah 33:18

[Rubia Warren]

Woman:"uhhh, it comes after 4?"

"Yes. did you want to contribute to the thread?"


Perhaps I do... I was just wondering where you got #5 from. I never caught Sozo saying that, and I was curious as to where that was at, or what he was talking about when he said that. Who peed in YOUR wheaties this morning? Can I not even ask a question on your thread?

[Woman]

la rubia



Who peed in YOUR wheaties this morning? Can I not even ask a question on your thread?

My goodness. What is the matter? :shocked: Of course you can ask a question. :smile: But I don't know what you are talking about. What does the number of the questions on my thread have to do with Sozo? His most recent thread was only the impetus for this one.

As he was back on his subject of mental illness being bogus, MS being a brain disease, introspection causing insanity, etc. I thought I would pose some direct questions in a forum that anyone can respond to. (As I'm not a Christian, Theology forums are not the place for me to discuss these issues, which I think are important)

Had you simply asked me why I posed five questions instead of saying "uhhhh, where did you get the number 5?" you might have learned that. Or, after I answered "uhhh, after 4," and you still didn't refer to Sozo but just said cryptically "Are you sure?"

Perhaps you are upset that I disagree strongly with Sozo. That's fine. But wouldn't it be better, in the spirit of open, honest communication, to try to understand instead of assuming I don't want you to ask questions?

Or maybe you were still laboring under the impression that I am an atheist as you mentioned earlier on your thread about Satan answering prayers. I know you asked me why I was even anwering the questions you posed as I'm not a Christian.

That's why I posted this thread in this forum so that anyone could respond without feeling their opinions were unwanted.

I hope that clears it up.

And now I must go see if someone has peed in my wheaties. If so, I shall have to thrash them soundly!
:whip:

[Sozo]

1. Schizophrenia is not a disease and is often caused by demons.

Quite true, and God bless you for pointing it out.

The only reason that the psychiatric community accepts the idea that Schizophrenia is a disease is because they claim that it can be controlled by drugs, when in fact there are no objective physico-chemical observations related. Brain diseases do not heal from counseling and patience, where nearly all schizophrenics who have no medication recover, and sooner then those who are treated. (Once again I am only using the term so you can relate, but there is no such thing as Schizophrenia, and it is pure ignorance to believe that there is)


2. Mental illness is a conspiracy on the part of the medical community. No it is not a conspiracy, but there is a consorted effort through ignorance to create a a provision for, those with undefinable symptoms, a health care plan.


3. Brain and mind are totally different. Yes, for those who believe in a soul, for those who don't they are simply mindless.


4. Introspection causes insanity. I see you have put alot of self-examination into this.


5. Contemplative prayer and meditation are dangerous practices which may result in demonic possession. I have no idea what your point is. Self-introspection seeks self-reliance and independence. Prayer and meditation seeks God and total dependance on Him.


You neglect to mention that it can be confined to the spinal cord, for instance.

I didn't neglect anything. You just started an ignorant thread to disprove that MS is a brain disease, and I just quoted directly from their main site. If you have a problem with their definition, take it up with them. I'm sure they have had to answer questions from the weaker, easily decieved sex in the past.

[Rubia Warren]

Yesterday @ 06:36 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=71254#post71254)
La Rubia:

Uhhh, where did you come up with number 5?
See? That's what I really said. Not THE number 5, but where did you get number 5 on your list. I know Sozo's arguments about the other 4, and when I read number 5, I thought, "Where is Sozo saying anything like that". If you go back and read your first post, it seemed to imply that 1-5 were things that Sozo had said before in other threads, I thought #5 was included... it had nothing to do with how I feel about you starting this thread about Sozo. I know him quite well, and I have no doubt he doesn't need anybody "fighting his battles for him" so to speak.
When you answered me back the first time by saying, "Uh... it comes after 4", I thought you were just playin' around, so that's why I jokingly answered you back with "Are you sure?"... I thought we were just kidding, and that you were going to tell me more about #5 when we were done kidding.

:argh:
And about my other thread.... did you see how I responded to your post last night? I told you it was alright if you wanted to post on the thread, I just wasn't sure why you were participating in case you were an atheist. Atheist, theist, agnostic, baptist, catholic, pentecostal, everybody's something on this board, no? Sometimes it's hard for me to keep up. I meant nothing by it at all.
Now, I hope that this morning you wake up to a nice bowl of cereal, instead of... nevermind.:no: :lol:

[Woman]

La Rubia,

Sometimes I think you and I are too much alike! LOL

On second thought, maybe that is something to celebrate!

[Rubia Warren]

LOL
Maybe that's why we keep poking at each other so much.:poke: Hehe j/k

[Woman]

:poke:

La Rubia,

Yup! My best friend in school was so much like me too. We were strong personalities, opinionated, fun-loving, stubborn, generous, outrageously good-looking and wonderful girls!:rofl:

[sharoosunidhi]

Hi,
i am newly join in this site.This site is very useful to others.If you go back and read your first post, it seemed to imply that 1-5 were things that Sozo had said before in other threads, I thought #5 was included... it had nothing to do with how I feel about you starting this thread about Sozo. I know him quite well, and I have no doubt he doesn't need anybody "fighting his battles for him" so to speak.



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sharoo

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