Seminaries . . . . . . .

[Gavin]

I am continually researching for where I want to go to seminary. Any thoughts on this? Anyone have any suggestions?

My main options are Wheaton (for an MA not mDiv), TEDS, Covenant, and Westminster.

[quetzalphoenix]

I can give an entirely biased opinion here. I am at Covenant Seminary. What are you looking to use your MDiv for? We have some great faculty--for OT, you can't beat Jack Collins (see the ESV for a sample of his abilities), and we also have Dan Doriani (though he's leaving this semester), Hans Bayer--hermeneutics, NT. Systematics we have Michael Williams and Robert Peterson who have just co-authored a book on "Why I'm not an Arminian."

And you can't forget the Francis Schaeffer Institute and our focus on culture--Jerram Barrs is one of our profs as well.

Not only do we have great faculty, but there's an emphasis on community and growing in grace which is outstanding. You don't have to be a PCA member to attend, even though it is the PCA's national seminary.

I can be more specific if you'd like, if you could tell me what you're looking for from seminary. I also know people at Westminster West and East, and I myself looked at RTS Jackson... but it was too far below the Mason-Dixon for me.

[Blake Reas]

I would recommend Southern but I might end up and Westminster. The main place I would recommend would be Wycliffe Hall (Oxford) in London but then again I am a big fan of Mcgrath!

By HIs Grace For HIs Glory
Blake

[Pilgrim]

I graduated from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.

www.gcts.edu.

It is an awesome evangelical semianry with a strong emphasis on Biblical languages. Doug Stuart and Gary Pratico in the OT beat everyone else, sorry.

It also is a part of the Boston Theological Institute (BTI). This means that you can cross register at any other school in the institute for credit: Harvard, Episcopal Divinity, Holy Cross, Andover-Newton, Boston University, Boston College etc. etc. etc. And on top of it all, Boston is the coolest city in the US.

[Kenny]

I am currently working on a Masters of Arts in Theology at Fuller Theological Seminary. It’s a cool place if you’re in to being exposed to cultural, ethnic and theological diversity. It’s also good for a place the fosters a large degree of academic freedom without (usually) falling off the deep end into an anything goes approach. The statement of faith to which the faculty must adhere is broadly evangelical and well within orthodox Christianity. If you're looking for a really conservative place or you are looking for a seminary that stands in one particular evangelical tradition, then Fuller would not be for you, however.

In Christ,
Kenny

P.S. Gavin, I note that you are a Calvinist third wave charismatic. So am I! You don’t find that combination very often!

[Freak]

Today @ 06:15 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72136#post72136)
Kenny:

P.S. Gavin, I note that you are a Calvinist third wave charismatic. So am I! You don’t find that combination very often!

Well, I am too.

[Freak]

Today @ 06:15 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72136#post72136)
Kenny:

P.S. Gavin, I note that you are a Calvinist third wave charismatic. So am I! You don’t find that combination very often!

Well, I am too. Though, I usually refer to myself as simply as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Gavin]

Kenny,


P.S. Gavin, I note that you are a Calvinist third wave charismatic. So am I! You don’t find that combination very often!

True, and it is good to meet you! :thumb: :smile:

quetzalphoenix,


I can give an entirely biased opinion here. I am at Covenant Seminary. What are you looking to use your MDiv for? We have some great faculty--for OT, you can't beat Jack Collins (see the ESV for a sample of his abilities), and we also have Dan Doriani (though he's leaving this semester), Hans Bayer--hermeneutics, NT. Systematics we have Michael Williams and Robert Peterson who have just co-authored a book on "Why I'm not an Arminian."

And you can't forget the Francis Schaeffer Institute and our focus on culture--Jerram Barrs is one of our profs as well.

Not only do we have great faculty, but there's an emphasis on community and growing in grace which is outstanding. You don't have to be a PCA member to attend, even though it is the PCA's national seminary.

I can be more specific if you'd like, if you could tell me what you're looking for from seminary. I also know people at Westminster West and East, and I myself looked at RTS Jackson... but it was too far below the Mason-Dixon for me.

Thanks for your thoughts. Covenant is a great school. Do you know my brother Dane Ortlund? He is there right now.

The only thing is that covenant is not the type of place you look at if you know you are going on after seminary to get a Phd., which is something I kind of would like to do.

I am currently really considering getting an MA in strictly exegesis and languages at Wheaton.

PS - has anyone seen/heard about Wheaton's new Phd. program??? It is incredible. Check it out at their site, wheaton.edu

[Gavin]

Pilgrim,


This means that you can cross register at any other school in the institute for credit: Harvard, Episcopal Divinity, Holy Cross, Andover-Newton, Boston University, Boston College etc. etc. etc.

Thats interesting.

[quetzalphoenix]

Today @ 08:31 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72221#post72221)
Gavin:

Thanks for your thoughts. Covenant is a great school. Do you know my brother Dane Ortlund? He is there right now.


No, I don't. Is he in the MDiv program? This is my 2nd year there, and if he's first year, I wouldn't have classes with him now. I recognize the name (and I looked him up in the directory and recognize his face).



The only thing is that covenant is not the type of place you look at if you know you are going on after seminary to get a Phd., which is something I kind of would like to do.


Well, I would have to disagree. We do have graduates who go on to get a Ph.D. (I know some of them), which is what I am planning to do...it just means harder work to make use of the resources there, since most students aren't headed that direction.




PS - has anyone seen/heard about Wheaton's new Phd. program??? It is incredible. Check it out at their site, wheaton.edu

One of our students at CTS got accepted there, but I think he's going to do his PhD work at Edinburough (or Oxford?). Can't recall.

[Steven]

How about Seminary of Faith?

Seminaries can be useful. But, what is the purpose of going? DO you plan on preaching the gospel of Christ and holding to sound doctrine, or do you plan on landing a cush pastoral corner office? Take my advice, save your money, give it to the poor and go to the streets, preaching the gospel of Jesus, which is the Power of God. You may say, well if I don't have a seminary degree, how will I get a job? Work at Denny's if you have to, or get a good ditch-digging job. Humble yourself, under God's mightly hand, that He may lift you up in DUE TIME.

Then, you know at the end of the day that you actually did something. On the day of judgement when we all have to stand before God, God will judge us in light of what we really did for His kingdom, not which seminary we went to , or college or high school, but whether we WALKED BY FAITH.

I tell you, go to Sudan or similar area, and in your process of preaching the gospel tell them you have a masters or doctrate from so and so seminary, and watch how that information fills their bellies. If that does not work, show them the certificate, and watch how their houses rebuild.

I can tell you we are not in need of more people with seminary degrees, we need beleivers with the compassion of Chrit, love for His word and enough faith to see that God does work through his Word and sound doctrine and the gospel of Christ.

The question is not which seminary you should go to, but the question must be 'Am I doing anything of substance for the Kingdom, (ie: preaching the gospel, edifiying the body of CHrist) OR am I just storing up religious treasures, burying my talent in the things of this earth?"

Blessings. I'd be happy to answer any more questions you may have.

Steven

[Jaltus]

Wheaton has a pretty good program (I have a friend in the NT there) as long as it is biblical languages. The ST is subpar. Of course I think TEDS is the best for languages, and I find that incredibly difficult to dispute. We have the best OT department possibly in the entire world, at least the best in the US, confessional or not. Our NT is also incredibly strong, with Carson, Schnabel, Pao, Osborne, and Yarbrough, each of which is a respected scholar with only Pao not being well-known yet (he only has 2 books out, and finished his Ph D about 3 years ago, though he is already considered an expert on Acts).

If you want intense language prep, then TEDS is the place to go. MAs are highly respected from our school. I have a friend going to (probably) St. Andrews for his Ph D with just an MA/NT, no Th M.

[JohnStevenson]

I'll throw Knox Theological Seminary into the mix. To see a sample of the teaching there, take a look at http://www.knoxseminary.org/Prospective/Faculty/FacultyForum/JohnRevelationProject/index.html and the fascinating article showing the chiastic relationship between the book of Revelation and the Gospel of John.

I would also be remiss if I did not add Reformed Theological Seminary and mention such notables as Richard Pratt, Bruce Waltke and John Frame, all at the Orlando Campus. If you haven't yet been to Pratt's http://www.thirdmill.org/ then you are in for a treat.

[Pilgrim]

Many students go onto PhD from GCTS and to very prominant programs at that.

[joelkaki]

Today @ 03:42 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72335#post72335)
Steven:

How about Seminary of Faith?

Seminaries can be useful. But, what is the purpose of going? DO you plan on preaching the gospel of Christ and holding to sound doctrine, or do you plan on landing a cush pastoral corner office? Take my advice, save your money, give it to the poor and go to the streets, preaching the gospel of Jesus, which is the Power of God. You may say, well if I don't have a seminary degree, how will I get a job? Work at Denny's if you have to, or get a good ditch-digging job. Humble yourself, under God's mightly hand, that He may lift you up in DUE TIME.

Then, you know at the end of the day that you actually did something. On the day of judgement when we all have to stand before God, God will judge us in light of what we really did for His kingdom, not which seminary we went to , or college or high school, but whether we WALKED BY FAITH.

I tell you, go to Sudan or similar area, and in your process of preaching the gospel tell them you have a masters or doctrate from so and so seminary, and watch how that information fills their bellies. If that does not work, show them the certificate, and watch how their houses rebuild.

I can tell you we are not in need of more people with seminary degrees, we need beleivers with the compassion of Chrit, love for His word and enough faith to see that God does work through his Word and sound doctrine and the gospel of Christ.

The question is not which seminary you should go to, but the question must be 'Am I doing anything of substance for the Kingdom, (ie: preaching the gospel, edifiying the body of CHrist) OR am I just storing up religious treasures, burying my talent in the things of this earth?"

Blessings. I'd be happy to answer any more questions you may have.

Steven

I'm afraid I must disagree with what you have said here. Men who are going to serve in the ministry, I believe, need to have good training. (Now, granted, seminary is not a God-ordained requirement, and there are cases where I think that it was not necessary, but that is the exception). Men today need to have a strong biblical and theological foundation, with true understanding of biblical matters. You can't just go out and be a pastor or missionary or whatever on a whim. People need to be trained, and have a thorough knowledge of the Bible.

Joel

[Steven]

Joel,

the only problem with what you said is that from your own words you can't support the idea of seminary requirements from the Scriptures. Now, you know and I know that most seminaries don't even teach the Bible, but teach words, phrases and Languages. According to your own post, I guess someone like Peter, a fisherman, would not qualify to your standards as he learned from mere men with no degrees; or even Paul, who counted all his previous schooling as mere dung.

Now, I am in no way discrediting sound theology, but one does not have to go to seminary to attain it. One can merely open up the Bible and live obediently in Christ Jesus. Most of this 'you must be schooled by us' thinking is ultimately spawned from Catholisism, where the Papacy determines doctrine.

On the same token I do have great respect for some brothers like Dr. Walter Martin, and John MacAurthur, who did go to seminiary; but all they know about God comes from the Scriptures and the conviciton of the Spirit.

I must repeat, from the Scriptures, by the conviction of the Spirit.

I hope I have been helpful in your daunting pursuit of seminary.

- Steven

www.informationgospel.net

[Blake Reas]

Today @ 07:46 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=73378#post73378)
Steven:

Joel,

the only problem with what you said is that from your own words you can't support the idea of seminary requirements from the Scriptures. Now, you know and I know that most seminaries don't even teach the Bible, but teach words, phrases and Languages. According to your own post, I guess someone like Peter, a fisherman, would not qualify to your standards as he learned from mere men with no degrees; or even Paul, who counted all his previous schooling as mere dung.

Now, I am in no way discrediting sound theology, but one does not have to go to seminary to attain it. One can merely open up the Bible and live obediently in Christ Jesus. Most of this 'you must be schooled by us' thinking is ultimately spawned from Catholisism, where the Papacy determines doctrine.

On the same token I do have great respect for some brothers like Dr. Walter Martin, and John MacAurthur, who did go to seminiary; but all they know about God comes from the Scriptures and the conviciton of the Spirit.

I must repeat, from the Scriptures, by the conviction of the Spirit.

I hope I have been helpful in your daunting pursuit of seminary.

- Steven

www.informationgospel.net

Your not part of that radical cult are you? The one that makes its followers eat out of garbage cans and forget there families? It sounds like you are pretty close to expounding that. Also for good preaching you must know how to interpret scripture. Have you not read teh Old TEstament where over and over again God tells them to study his word? WHy do you think the Early Rabbis had rabbinic schools? It was because they where following scripture. Also if you are supposed to be out proclaiming the Gospel why are you on here?

By His Grace for His Glory
Blake:huh:

[quetzalphoenix]

Yesterday @ 08:46 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=73378#post73378)
Steven:

..most seminaries don't even teach the Bible, but teach words, phrases and Languages...



What is the Bible other than words and phrases in different languages??



According to your own post, I guess someone like Peter, a fisherman, would not qualify to your standards as he learned from mere men with no degrees; or even Paul, who counted all his previous schooling as mere dung.


Maybe if you had taken some classes in "words, phrases, and Languages" you might know that when Paul says that, it is in respect to something...he wasn't saying that it was entirely worthless because it was learning.



Now, I am in no way discrediting sound theology, but one does not have to go to seminary to attain it.


True, people can go to seminary and have wretched theology.



One can merely open up the Bible and live obediently in Christ Jesus.


Would one "merely" drop a pin somewhere on a page to find a verse helpful in living obediently? The Bible is not self-interpreting, it requires a reader (yes, a submissive and obedient one) who is schooled in how to read...something that is more and more rare these days, sadly. Hence the need for seminary.



Most of this 'you must be schooled by us' thinking is ultimately spawned from Catholisism, where the Papacy determines doctrine.


I don't think anyone is saying that...rather, seminary allows the opportunity to train others how to read God's word well. It does not mean that seminary graduates would then indoctrinate others by some special power.



On the same token I do have great respect for some brothers like Dr. Walter Martin, and John MacAurthur, who did go to seminiary; but all they know about God comes from the Scriptures and the conviciton of the Spirit.

Yes, all they know...but knowledge isn't deposited in your head in a vacuum...it comes by hard work. I doubt they would agree with your position.

You are right, seminary is only useful if exegesis is bathed in prayer and submission...but I humbly submit that prayer and submission mixed with poor exegesis can still result in bad, even dangerous, interpretations.

[joelkaki]

Today @ 01:46 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=73378#post73378)
Steven:

Joel,

the only problem with what you said is that from your own words you can't support the idea of seminary requirements from the Scriptures.

Notice I did say that there are exceptions. Seminary is not a requirement. But I believe that most men do need to go to seminary.



Now, you know and I know that most seminaries don't even teach the Bible, but teach words, phrases and Languages.

The Bible is made up of words, phrases, and basically two languages--Hebrew and Greek. I think I get what you are saying, but whether or not a lot of seminaries truly teach the Bible or not does not mean that we should categorically reject all of them. Some truly teach the Word, and those are the ones that should be attended.



According to your own post, I guess someone like Peter, a fisherman, would not qualify to your standards as he learned from mere men with no degrees; or even Paul, who counted all his previous schooling as mere dung.

Peter had the greatest teacher of all time, Jesus Christ, who was no mere man.



Now, I am in no way discrediting sound theology, but one does not have to go to seminary to attain it. One can merely open up the Bible and live obediently in Christ Jesus. Most of this 'you must be schooled by us' thinking is ultimately spawned from Catholisism, where the Papacy determines doctrine.

You're right, you don't have to go to seminary to get sound theology. The Holy Spirit does convict and teach us from the Word. But that does not in any way negate the teaching of the word through academic institutions. If it was just merely opening up the Bible and living obediently, then we wouldn't need pastors or elders either--we'd just learn it ourselves. But we do need pastors to teach the Word of God. And those who will be teaching need to first be taught.



On the same token I do have great respect for some brothers like Dr. Walter Martin, and John MacAurthur, who did go to seminiary; but all they know about God comes from the Scriptures and the conviciton of the Spirit.

Why don't you ask them sometime if they think they would have been better off not going to seminary? I'll bet you (at least MacArthur-never heard of Martin) that they would say that they would not have been better off.



I must repeat, from the Scriptures, by the conviction of the Spirit.

Yes, I agree. Without the Spirit, all the seminary training in the world would profit nothing. But the Spirit uses means to transform the lives of Christ's servants. Most men are not adequately prepared for pastoral ministry just as they are. Most need training. They need deeper understanding of the Word, as well as training in how to communicate that word.

Joel

[joelkaki]

quetzalphoenix, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding Covenant.

I have a large concern for the state of preaching today. I have heard many preachers who really cannot preach. So I guess my question is really as to the "teaching of preaching" at Covenant. I know that the president has written a great book, Christ-Centered Preaching and I would expect him to be a good preacher, having also heard part of a sermon of his online. But in the classes there, do they really teach how to truly and enthusiastically preach the Word?
Do they teach how to organize sermons? Do they deal at all with main points in a sermon? I say this because I have heard some sermons where it didn't seem to be organized at all, and I couldn't quite figure out what I was trying to be told.
Do they deal with the delivery of sermons? Do they teach how to effectively communicate the Word?

Thanks for your time. I am sure that you are busy, so if you are unable to take the time and answer my questions, that is fine.

Thanks,
Joel

[Gavin]

I am leaning toward TEDS. The cost is a deterrent.

[GrayPilgrim]

Your family connection to TEDS should make it a shoe in!:wink: The money is high, but the languages are top notch, and you would be hard pressed to find a better OT department anywhere--Averbeck, Hoffmeier, Magary, Younger and VanGemeren (with Liyu and Blokland as adjunct)!!!

Edit to add--and if you are there soon enough you would get to hang out with Jaltus and I! (We'd be easy to find just look for the two old men from the muppets down in the White Horse!

[Gavin]

:rofl:

[Gavin]

Thats interesting I don't really know those guys in the Old Testament department as well. But I do know of some of the New Testament guys like Carson who are really good.

I would be interested in finding out more about language prerequisite requirements. I just signed up for Hebrew next semester.

[GrayPilgrim]

You just have to have one years woth of college level Greek. The Hebrew placement exam is a killer and I have only heard of one person whoas ever passed it.

When did your father teach at TEDS? Did Eric decide on where he is going next?

[Gavin]

My dad was there from 89 to 98. Yeah, I just talked to Eric on the phone on Easter - he is going to the University of Edinborough. We are looking forward to going to visit him there as our family has some history in Scotland.

[quetzalphoenix]

Yesterday @ 03:37 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=75122#post75122)
joelkaki:

quetzalphoenix, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding Covenant.

I have a large concern for the state of preaching today. I have heard many preachers who really cannot preach. So I guess my question is really as to the "teaching of preaching" at Covenant. I know that the president has written a great book, Christ-Centered Preaching and I would expect him to be a good preacher, having also heard part of a sermon of his online. But in the classes there, do they really teach how to truly and enthusiastically preach the Word?
Do they teach how to organize sermons? Do they deal at all with main points in a sermon? I say this because I have heard some sermons where it didn't seem to be organized at all, and I couldn't quite figure out what I was trying to be told.
Do they deal with the delivery of sermons? Do they teach how to effectively communicate the Word?


Joel--I would love to answer that question, but as a woman MDiv student, I don't take homiletics. The men I've talked to are divided on the "Chappellian system" as we call it. I know that they do require several semesters of homiletics, and that they emphasize the importance of good exegesis before stepping into the pulpit. And yes, from what I've heard (student preachers in chapel) and heard about (from students in the classes), they are very thorough in teaching a system from which exegesis leads to intelligible sermons. We also have preaching lectures each year--last year was Sinclair Ferguson on "Christ-Centered Preaching from the OT" which I did attend. And I think that our faculty do a great job of representing--in their own varying styles--how to present the word biblically, carefully, and in a (dare I say it?) relevant manner.

If you are interested, I can do some asking around for people that you could talk to. I haven't even taken the general communications course yet, so I can't really speak to the question well.

[joelkaki]

quetzalphoenix, sorry for the misplaced question; my mistake. But thank you for being willing to comment anyway.

Joel

[joelkaki]

Any others of you who have been to seminary, or are going to seminary, etc, care to comment on your seminaries teaching of preaching?

Joel

[Jacob]

Gavin,

I'd really take the advice to consider why you're going. I would choose different seminaries for different reasons. Preparing to teach in a seminary, or preparing to preach in a church, would lead me to different schools.

Another factor is your background. If you've got an undergraduate Bible School degree, then you've worked through a lot of issues and could be less particular about the seminaries theological distinctives.

Just for illustration:
Wheaton & Trinity are great schools, academically. They're hard to outclass when it comes to preparing for a Phd (or getting one). But my experience has been that Dallas seminary (probably not an option) produces a better pastor/preacher.

One nice thing about Trinity is that it's faculty is both truly Evangelical, and truly diverse. You'll find both Covenant & Dispensational professors there, as well as those who practice the gifts of the Spirit (Grudem) and those who are cessassionist. They've got many of the best, and they know how to get along.

I hope this helps.

Jacob

[wienerdog]

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him take another seminary class."

I graduated from Western Seminary in Portland, OR. I think it is excellent. The main theology prof is Gerry (pronounced "Gary") Breshears, who is simply one of the wisest people I have ever met. They teach exegetical theology as opposed to systematic. I really love this approach, since it is constantly going back to the Bible to verify whatever conclusions one has drawn.

[GrayPilgrim]

Today @ 12:19 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=76606#post76606)
Jacob:
One nice thing about Trinity is that it's faculty is both truly Evangelical, and truly diverse. You'll find both Covenant & Dispensational professors there, as well as those who practice the gifts of the Spirit (Grudem) and those who are cessassionist. They've got many of the best, and they know how to get along.

I hope this helps.

Jacob

Unfortunately Grudem left after my second year there:bawl: His wife has fibromyalgia which the Chicago climate aggrevated so now he is at Phoenix, but still teaches moduler courses at TEDS.

GP

[Gavin]

what are modular courses?

[TheFiveSolas]

Pilgrim wrote:
I graduated from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.


I debated Dr. Robert Price a little over a year ago. It was shocking knowing he had graduated from such a good school only to follow the "dark side of the force". :teeth:

Also, when you had mentioned Westminster were you referring to East or West? I highly recommend West.

Reformed Theological is also excellent, especially Frame!
(shameless plug at his latest books) His last two books were excellent, "The Doctrine of God" and "The Doctrine of the Knowledge of God".

[Gavin]

Fivesolas,

I think it was Pilgrim who wrote that (unless I have gone to GC and forgotten about it :teeth:).

Gavin

[Jaltus]

I am not a big RTS fan due to their "politics." If you want more comment then that, PM me as I would not want to discuss this on the board.

Modular courses are those which are tuaght in compressed time periods. TEDS has three ways of doing them.

1) The week before regular classes start back up, there is a one week crash course which meets from 9 am until 4:30 pm. All the readings is due that week, the major paper is due iwthin a months time.

2) The first 3 weeks of the semester, you take a course from 2:30-5pm every day M-Th, and one Friday meeting. I am not sure how the workload exists in this course as I am taking it this coming fall (Hebrews with Peter O'Brien).

3) The class meets 4 different weekends, Friday 12-4, Saturday 8 am - 4:30 pm. Generally the first paper is due the second class and the last paper is due the last class.

I hope that answers your question, Gavin.

[Gavin]

Wow those sound like long classes. So if I were to go to TEDS, I could for sure take Grudem in modular classes? I am really curious about this because I am a bit of a Grudemite (i.e. Grudem fan) and that would be a factor I would consider.

Thanks Jaltus.

[GrayPilgrim]

Yeah he does. A friend of mine talked to Grudem about transfering to Phoenix and Grudem's response was "Don't ever go there." He said his personal library is larger than the seminary's. I get the impression that it is a school that a bunch of churches host as opposed to a traditional eminary anywho.

GP

[Gavin]

He said his personal library is larger than the seminary's.

wow

[Jaltus]

The seminary does not even have an NT Prof. Grudem is there for two reasons:

1) His wife

2) It is a research position

The seminary is very much a practical one, with very little going toward theology and a lot going toward practice (not that this is all bad, but it is a bit overbalanced).

[Gavin]

Are there good seminaries outide the US? What about Britain? Australia?

[GrayPilgrim]

From what I have read and talking to international students, seminary tends to be more of an American phenomenon. So that the clergy in Europe would be trained at a school like Cambridge or Heidelberg heavy on the accedemic and light on the practical. That being said there are some schools that are moving in that direction. Ellis Brotzman teaches at Tyndale Theological Seminarry in The Netherlands, and Tyndale House at Cambridge does so as well. HTere are numerous "pastors colleges" similar to Spurgeons that train pastors in a church context.

[Steven]

sorry I didnt get a chance to look back competely at the replies to my post.

No, I am not part of a cult; that is just foolish and idle talk. Surely, one aught to examine some else's words in light of the Scriptures instead of personal, arrogant bias.


In regards to going to seminary: The question is not whether we should go to seminiary, but rather that we use whatever knowledge we have to glorify Christ, edify His Body and to preach the Gospel.

"He said to them, "Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.'" matt 13:52

"24. Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures.
25. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John.
26. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue... For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ." acts 18:24-26 & 28

" For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
18. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."
20. Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." 1 corinth 1:16-21

"not with words of human wisdom".... but with the Gospel, the Scriptures.

"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. " Romans 1:16

The Gospel is the only power of God: not seminary, not college, not trade school, nor wives, not our careers... nothing; just the Gospel of Christ.



As for the person who said 'what is the Bible other than words, phrases and languages', it is the Word of God, the intent of the Scriptures (context) and the meaning of the Scriptures.

- Steven

www.informationgospel.net

[joelkaki]

Steven, I still disagree. Yes, the truly important thing is the gospel of God. Yes, only the gospel is the true power of God. But I believe that to accurately represent that word, to maintain the sheep when false doctrines creep in, seminary education helps. It gives a much better understanding of the word. It gives you a much better picture and understanding of the word of God.
I believe that to properly preach the Word in most cases, training is needed. I'm not talking about crafty words, etc, but just learning how to organize your thoughts, to get to the root meaning of a passage, how to clearly convey that thought with organization--I believe seminary is a great help in that.

Joel

[quetzalphoenix]

As for the person who said 'what is the Bible other than words, phrases and languages', it is the Word of God, the intent of the Scriptures (context) and the meaning of the Scriptures.

That was me. And I suppose I am wondering how your answer differs from mine...? Without words, phrases, and languages, we don't have the word of God, the intent of the scriptures, nor their meaning. And again, we are not simply born with the ability to read well, nor does the Holy Spirit bypass our humanity and give us spectacular insight... the Bereans and others took time to rightly divide the word (which involves understanding the words in the first place.)

[Gavin]

My opinion: seminary can be a very great blessing to someone's understanding of the Bible, but God may also call people into the ministry without seminary training (e.g., Jim Cymbala [IMO, of course]). Its good but not always necessary.

Gavin

[Gavin]

And of course, very heavy emphasis should be given to the point that ultimately, all knowledge is in vain unless received/operated in a framework of love and repentance humility (I Corinthians 8:1-2, 13:1-3). Seminaries can overlook that in practice.

[Jaltus]

Hmmm, selective quoting is a sure sign of editing content:

Acts 18:26b

When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

[Steven]

Jaltus & others:

(edited note: i have posted this reply as a new thread in theology 102 and I am more than happy to answer your replies posted there, as it is getting diffuclt to reach this post. thank you)

Thank you chaplain for your diligent study; yes they are mentioned there, I left them out because they were not talking of seminary, in fact they took a learned man, named Apollos, and explained to him more adequately the basics of Christ. This could be like a seminarian today who is zealous and is taught the way of Christ better by what someone, in their pomposity, might refer to as 'ditch-diggers', or perhaps a 'handyman'.

Seminary is merely A method of learning Biblical doctrine, but it is not the only one. It is notably arrogant to put such abundant weight on a particular methodology, when this exclusiveness is not supported in the Scriptures.


Now, am I oppposed to someone going to seminary? No. I am not, but to tell me that those who have been to seminary are somehow more effective in ministry and have greater understanding of the Word than others, is smug and sectarian in nature, in it's rawest form, as well as being firmly rooted in Catholicism (which itself is continually contrary to the grace of our Lord Jesus, adding works to salvation).

Frankly, I find the majority of seminarians to be pompous; you know, 'kiss the royal ring of relgious acedemia before I will condescend to converse with you'...

The Scripture says that knowledge puffs up.

"We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
2. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.
3. But the man who loves God is known by God. " 1 corinth 8:1-3

I encountered a cure for this problem: I would very much like to see seminary graduates and scholars 'hit the streets', preaching the gospel of Christ (you know... hell and damnation for those who'd reject Christ); perhaps they could stand tall on a street corner, on a little seating device and begin to open-air preach the Gospel, of which they have been assured through so much study. If that does not work, perhaps they might go into the jails and converse with, as supercilliousness might say, the riff-raff of society and speak about vast studies on the intricate meanings of words like 'generation'.

If any would like to sign up for Talk Basics 101 on "How to actually convey the gospel to someone who's education and income are, let's say, 'less fortunate' than Yours", let me know.
The sign-up sheets for 'Seminary of the Streets' are in the janitor's closet... or you could visit the website below.

- Steven

www.informationgospel.net

:cheers:

[Gavin]

As thread starter I request that replies to Steven's post above be directed here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=80499#post80499), since he has posted the same post there.

Thanks!