What's the atheist definition of fundy?

[spl_cadet]

I'm curious to see what the atheist definition of a fundamentalist is, because it seems to me that their definition is really any true believer which covers me for one thing. That sortof definition is rather far off from what the general Christian definition has always been.

[Peter Kirby]

Why not accept the definitions that Christians have given the term fundamentalist?

"To protect their authority the Protestants claimed that the Bible was the only infallible authority and, unlike that of pope and king, the literal word of God. . . . To the fundamentalist this doctrine became the first defense against error. If one began by doubting any statement of the Bible, he had started down the slippery slope that, the fundamentalist believed, would lead to the denial of God and the divinity of Jesus, the loss of certainty of salvation and finally the loss of ethics. The fundamentalist sees a 'creeping humanism,' the creeping in of ideas that will finally leave man without God, religion, or morality. The fact that people have appeared in the modern world who are without God, religion, or morality spurred the fundamentalist in his zeal to protect the doctrine of the infallible Bible." (William E. Hordern, A Layman's Guide to Protestant Theology, p. 59)

best,
Peter Kirby

[WinAce]

The word has taken on a life of its own. Basically:

Fun·dy Pronunciation Key (fhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ubreve.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifdhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gif)
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A usually religious person or entity characterized by an extreme lack of rationality, endorsement of pseudoscience, rigid adherence to mythology which should have been abandoned in the Bronze Age, opposition of the First Amendment, fondness of logical fallacies and propensity to post Bible verses instead of valid argument.
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[The Laughing Man]

:rofl:

Nice try, WinAce.

[sandlewood]

Yesterday @ 07:36 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72626#post72626)
spl_cadet:

I'm curious to see what the atheist definition of a fundamentalist is, because it seems to me that their definition is really any true believer which covers me for one thing. That sortof definition is rather far off from what the general Christian definition has always been.

What is a "true believer"?

I suppose the quote by Peter Kirby pretty much describes my understanding of what a fundamentalist Christian is. I think of a fundamentalist as a Christian who believes that all events described in the bible are true, such as the Garden of Eden and the flood. But I certainly think Christians should be able to define themselves, and if someone wants to enlighten me, I’m all ears. Though I do expect people will have different definitions. That is true among atheists also; not all atheists agree on the definition of atheism.

[Pilgrim]

Almost everyone has lost the true meaning of the word Fundamentalist. It is a theological school from the very early early 20th century which was pretty much a response to neo-orthodoxy. From there Evangelicalism entered the scene as a response to Fundamentalism. Now a days there are very few true Evangelicals. Most who call themselves Evangelicals are actually fundamentalists now a days AFAICS.

[Jin-Roh]

Maybe Fundamentalists means "believing that your way is the only way."

I guess when you apply this to Christians it means the opposite of Liberal Protestants.

[The Laughing Man]

What I think is funny is that there are fundamentalist atheists, fundamentalist JWs, fundamentalist Catholics, fundamentalist Protestants, fundamentalist conservative Christians, fundamentalist liberal Christians, etc. The term just doesn't have one pat definition, which is why hardly anyone has responded to this thread. No one wants to embarrass themself by providing a glaringly biased, judgmental, and/or false definition. A(nti)theists tend to just throw the term around as a vile epithet when they don't have a real argument to make.

[lordsnooty]

Where you read 'fundamentalist', you can often safely substitute the word 'fanatic'.

Paul

[The Laughing Man]

You mean I can now call you a fanatic?

[Piebald]

I find that usually the word "Fundie" is simply an abuse-word, though it started out as a 'nickname' for "Fundamentalist." Such is my understanding, anyways.

[lordsnooty]

Today @ 02:42 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=74212#post74212)
Jinx72:

You mean I can now call you a fanatic?

I wouldn't be offended if you did say I was a fanatical atheist. I have a strong interest in religion and atheism, so it'd be a reasonable enough - if exaggerated - label.

I'm not a fundamentalist atheist though, since there's no such thing.

Paul

[Ryokan]

its all semantics anyway. Christians sling words at athiest, we sling them back, worrying about it is just going to cause fights. However, to be honest, the only time I've used the word, it was thinking what Winace said, so...

If its any consolation, it was against Freak, who holds to some very, aherm, old school kind ogf views.

[Pate]

Alvin Plantinga has given the best definition of fundamentalism. :)

This is from his book "Warranted Christian belief"



"But isn't all this just endorsing a wholly outmoded and discredited fundamentalism, that condition than which, according to many academics, none lesser can be conceived? I fully realize that the dreaded f-word will be trotted out to stigmatize any model of this kind. Before responding, however, we must first look into the use of this term 'fundamentalist'. On the most common contemporary academic use of the term, it is a term of abuse or disapprobation, rather like 'son of a bitch', more exactly 'sonovabitch', or perhaps still more exactly (at least according to those authorities who look to the Old West as normative on matters of pronunciation) 'sumbitch'. When the term is used in this way, no definition of it is ordinarily given. (If you called someone a sumbitch, would you feel obliged first to define the term?) Still there is a bit more to the meaning of 'fundamentalist' (in this widely current use): it isn't simply a term of abuse. In addition to its emotive force, it does have some cognitive content, and ordinarily denotes relatively conservative theological views. That makes it more like 'stupid sumbitch' (or maybe 'fascist sumbitch'?) than 'sumbitch' simpliciter. It isn't exactly like that term either, however, because its cognitive content can expand and contract on demand; its content seems to depend upon who is using it. In the mouths of certain liberal theologians, for example, it tends to denote any who accept traditional Christianity, including Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin and Barth; in the mouths of devout secularists like Richard Dawkins or Daniel Dennett, on the other hand, it tends to denote anyone who believes there is such a person as God. The explanation is that the term has a certain indexical element: its cognitive content is given by the phrase "considerably to the right, theologically speaking, of me and my enlightened friends." The full meaning of the term, therefore (in this use) can be given by something like 'stupid sumbitch whose theological opinions are considerably to the right of mine'."

[juliod]

It is a theological school from the very early early 20th century which was pretty much a response to neo-orthodoxy.

Pilgrim is right, according to my Oxford Illustrated History of Christianity.

It started as a "return" to the fundementals of christianity, meaning the stripping away of the add-ons of social functions, organizational hierarchy, and authority that crowded in on all existing churches. The idea being to create a church (or independant churches) that restricted their doctrine to those things actually contained in the bible. The early motto was "Speak where the bible speaks, remain silent where the bible remains silent."

From that we can see how modern fundementalists are not the same. People who identify themselves as fundementalists now regularly proclaim christian doctrine on the whole range of socio-political issues for many of which there is no biblical guidance.

I think the original fundementalists could not have been identified as liberal or conservative, as they would have demurred on then-current political issues.

DanZ

[Barron]

Almost everyone has lost the true meaning of the word Fundamentalist. It is a theological school from the very early early 20th century which was pretty much a response to neo-orthodoxy. From there Evangelicalism entered the scene as a response to Fundamentalism. Now a days there are very few true Evangelicals. Most who call themselves Evangelicals are actually fundamentalists now a days AFAICS.

Yeah, it was around (IIRC) a series of books/tracts(?) call the Fundamentals. In those a certain set of Christian beliefs were proffered and someone who subscribed to that set was called a "Fundamentalist" (capitol "F"). The idea of fundementalism in general appears in many religions, offer in the form of a movement to return to the pure, original version of the faith. It often occurs as a response to incroaching modernity and is, IMHO, rightly seen as a reactionary movement. Fundementalism is, at it's core, backwards looking (usually back to the early, pure version fo the faith). The contrary religious movement would be liberalism which is usually forward looking and usually tries to "bring the faith into the current world".

I'm not big on defining other people's faith. I let them define themselves, but I will admit that I tend to mix up "evangelical" with "fundamentalist", with fundamentalist being the conservative end of the evangelical movement.

As for "fundy"... Could be a term of endearment or a perjorative. Sort of like "lefty" in politics.

Barron

[Ice Monkey]

How did the Chuggster get so smart?

[Jaltus]

As an Evangelical, I disagree that Evangelicals are Fundamentalists.

Evangelical = belief in inerrancy and in historical Christian doctrine

Fundamentalist = belief in inerrancy and in historical Christian doctrine and in separation from others claiming to be Christians who do not hold the same ideals.

Evangelicals try to be in the world but not of it, whereas Fundamentalists tend to be not in the world nor of it.

Evangelicals mingle, Fundamentalists sit in the corner.

[AtheistArchon]

Evangelical = belief in inerrancy and in historical Christian doctrine

Fundamentalist = belief in inerrancy and in historical Christian doctrine and in separation from others claiming to be Christians who do not hold the same ideals.

- Hmm. Don't evangelicals believe that their ideals are the correct ones? I'm not sure I understand the differences here. I've always thought that "evangelical" simply mean "a church that participates in evangelism". Do you have something different in mind?

- And what happened to your little demon's face?? (!)

[Jaltus]

Evangelical originally meant those who evangelize, but as a movement it split from Fundamentalism because they were more concerned with splitting over doctrinal issues than witnessing.

I am defining the catagories as explained to me by church historians such as John Woodbridge.

And what demon face?

[Barron]

Today @ 11:30 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=132419#post132419)
Ice Monkey:

How did the Chuggster get so smart?

I forgot to post my reference on this: "The Battle For God" by Karen Armstrong (my gal!) Covers the fundamentalist strains in all three Abrahamic religions. Sadly the Christians are covered in the least detail, but there's still plenty of meaty, historical goodness.

If someone has a good suggestion for a history focusing on the USA/Christian fundamentalism I'd be interested to see it...

Barron

[spl_cadet]

Today @ 11:36 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=132425#post132425)
Jaltus:

As an Evangelical, I disagree that Evangelicals are Fundamentalists.

Evangelical = belief in inerrancy and in historical Christian doctrine

Fundamentalist = belief in inerrancy and in historical Christian doctrine and in separation from others claiming to be Christians who do not hold the same ideals.

Evangelicals try to be in the world but not of it, whereas Fundamentalists tend to be not in the world nor of it.

Evangelicals mingle, Fundamentalists sit in the corner.

There's also the fact that fundamentalists are rather paranoid when it comes to the Catholic Church.

[AtheistArchon]

Evangelical originally meant those who evangelize, but as a movement it split from Fundamentalism because they were more concerned with splitting over doctrinal issues than witnessing.

I am defining the catagories as explained to me by church historians such as John Woodbridge.

- Ah. I need to get up to date on my terminology.


And what demon face?

- Your little pet demon "DDW". =) He's got a blob of hair gel on his face, it looks like.

[EDIT: Ah, nevermind, it's his right eye. Doh. I guess I need a new monitor too.]


There's also the fact that fundamentalists are rather paranoid when it comes to the Catholic Church.

- Ain't that the truth. In some forums, I'm pretty much left unscathed while the populus rants on about Catholics. Imagine that.

[Defenestrator]

The full meaning of the term, therefore (in this use) can be given by something like 'stupid sumbitch whose theological opinions are considerably to the right of mine'.

That has always been my favorite definition.

[Socrates]

Yesterday @ 08:53 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=132582#post132582)
Jaltus:

Evangelical originally meant those who evangelize, but as a movement it split from Fundamentalism because they were more concerned with splitting over doctrinal issues than witnessing.

If we are going by the original meaning of terms, we should be consistent and do the same for fundamentalist. This originally meant one who holds the fundamentals of Christianity as opposed to liberalism. The fundamentals they defended were those under attack by the liberals: the miracles of Christ, the virgin birth of Christ, the substitutionary atonement of Christ, the bodily resurrection of Christ, and the inspiration of Scripture.

[bystander]

Main Entry: fun·da·men·tal·ism Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: mentlizm
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): -s
Etymology: 1fundamental + -ism
1 a often capitalized : a militantly conservative movement in American Protestantism originating around the beginning of the 20th century in opposition to modernist tendencies and emphasizing as fundamental to Christianity the literal interpretation and absolute inerrancy of the Scriptures, the imminent and physical second coming of Jesus Christ, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, and substitutionary atonement b : the beliefs on which this movement was founded c : adherence to the attitude opposing modernism and to the literalist doctrines of fundamentalism <a minister noted for his strict fundamentalism>
2 : a movement or attitude similar in a significant respect (as literalism or strict adherence to traditional beliefs) to the American religious fundamentalism <Muslim fundamentalism> <fundamentalism in education stresses the three R's>

Main Entry: 1evan·gel·i·cal Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: -lkl, -lk-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Late Latin evangelicus (from Greek euangelikos, from euangelion + -ikos -ic) + English -al
1 : of, relating to, contained in, or in agreement with the Christian gospel especially as it is presented in the four Gospels of the New Testament
2 sometimes capitalized : PROTESTANT <mobs attacked evangelical property>
3 : of, relating to, or being a religious group emphasizing salvation by faith in the atoning death of Jesus Christ through personal conversion, the authority of Scripture, and the importance of preaching as contrasted with ritual
4 a usually capitalized : of or relating to the Evangelical Church in Germany b sometimes capitalized : of or relating to Fundamentalism or Fundamentalists <an ultraconservative evangelical message> c usually capitalized : of or relating to Low Church adherents in the Church of England and the Protestant Episcopal Church as distinguished from High Church Anglo-Catholics; also : of or relating to Wesleyans or Methodists who stand in the tradition of the 18th century evangelical revival in England
5 : characteristic or suggestive of an evangelist : characterized by or reflecting a missionary, reforming, or redeeming impulse or purpose : EVANGELISTIC, ZEALOUS, ARDENT, MILITANT, CRUSADING <did not feel the passion for writing or preaching that more evangelical authors have felt -- F.A.Swinnerton> <the rise and fall of evangelical fervor within the Socialist movement -- Times Literary Supplement> <propaganda ... reinforced the mood of evangelical patriotism -- J.D.Hart> <the Marxist impulse in American literary criticism was chiefly hortatory and evangelical -- C.I.Glicksberg>
- evan·gel·i·cal·ness noun -es

Definitions from www.m-w.com/home.htm

It is entirely possible to be evangelical but not fundamentalist. I suppose it's also possible to be fundamentalist but not evangelical, but only if referring to definition 5 of evangelical above, since I don't know of many Christian fundamentalists who would not be described accurately by definition 1 of evangelical.

I find it interesting that one of the phrases most feared by the American public (recently) is "Muslim fundamentalist" yet almost everything I've seen on this thread (including Meriam/Webster's input) uses the term "fundamentalist" only in reference to Christianity.