7up's War on Motherhood

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, the title is deceptive ON PURPOSE -- it really should be "7up's War on People Who Honor Motherhood".

It is a stinkin pile of horsie poo that ANY of us are mocking motherhood when we debate Mormons.

So here is an opportunity for 7up to back up his goofy claim that we are "mocking motherhood". It's a gutless and cowardly charge, and I want to see it defended.

I think this particular issue shows the extent to which you will go, 7up, in TRICKERY AND DECEIT, to try to defend your false religion.



Here is the gutless and cowardly FALSE ACCUSATION....

The fact that you all would stoop to the level of mocking motherhood in that way in an attempt to mock Mormonism (and the idea of a Heavenly mother) simply shows me how bent you are against my religion. Why waste my time talking to people like that?

-7up

You're on!

[mossrose]

[Sparko]

for context I think this is what 7up was responding to:

They are too busy being barefoot and pregnant. After all who is going to create new spirit babies?

And she has to keep the house clean, make dinner for God and all his angels, take the spirit babies to soccer. She is way too busy to go around working at the office as a God. That's a man's job.

Which was not mocking motherhood, but the way LDS are SUPPOSED to handle their women. They are not supposed to leave the house, or have a job. And the fact that hardly anything is known about the Heavenly Mother, like what purpose she serves, other than creating babies.

What do wives of Mormon men have to look forward to in their celestial roles? Nothing but continuing to make babies and dote on their hubbies?

I supported that with this:

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ll=1#post67327

There is nothing wrong with being a house wife and mother. But there is something wrong with forcing your wife to be one, and treating her like a child herself.

[Cow Poke]

for context I think this is what 7up was responding to:

Thanks, I had forgotten about that part, but it's birdbrain GOOFY to see that as mocking motherhood.

Which was not mocking motherhood, but the way LDS are SUPPOSED to handle their women. They are not supposed to leave the house, or have a job. And the fact that hardly anything is known about the Heavenly Mother, like what purpose she serves, other than creating babies.

ONCE AGAIN, some Mormon leader opened up a can of worms, so now people like 7up have to sacrifice their integrity at the altar of this cult.

[seven7up]

for context I think this is what 7up was responding to:



Which was not mocking motherhood, but the way LDS are SUPPOSED to handle their women. They are not supposed to leave the house, or have a job. ...

In other words, you were mocking the idea of "stay at home mothers."

Do me a favor, let me introduce you to Grace To You Ministries. This is an Evangelical pastor that you may be very familiar with. He is well respected, and in fact, I respect him very much.

Consider this series:

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons...r-Women-Part-1
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons...r-Women-Part-1
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons...r-Women-Part-2
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons...r-Women-Part-2

John MacArthur explains and goes into detail on the Biblical perspective.

After you read this, then we can discuss.

-7up

[Cow Poke]

In other words, you were mocking the idea of "stay at home mothers."

Only an idiot would conclude that from what Sparko said.

[seven7up]

Only an idiot would conclude that from what Sparko said.

What is wrong with taking the kids to soccer?

What is wrong with cleaning the house?

What is wrong with bearing children?

What is wrong with making dinner?

The statement given in order to mock the LDS idea of a Mother in Heaven treated these activities listed above with derision. Also, the implication was that a man who works in an office or outside the house has a superior position.

Please explain.

-7up

[Cow Poke]

What is wrong with taking the kids to soccer?

What is wrong with cleaning the house?

What is wrong with bearing children?

What is wrong with making dinner?

The statement given in order to mock the LDS idea of a Mother in Heaven treated these activities listed above with derision. Also, the implication was that a man who works in an office or outside the house has a superior position.

Please explain.

-7up

How bout providing an actual quote, instead of your own twisted recounting of something? I don't trust you.

[rogue06]

What is wrong with taking the kids to soccer?

What is wrong with cleaning the house?

What is wrong with bearing children?

What is wrong with making dinner?

The statement given in order to mock the LDS idea of a Mother in Heaven treated these activities listed above with derision. Also, the implication was that a man who works in an office or outside the house has a superior position.

Please explain.

-7up

7up,

It really seems to me to be a stretch in the extreme to claim that anybody is saying that there is anything wrong with the things you listed from the quotes provided. Perhaps you should provide some evidence that they are doing this.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah

[RumTumTugger]

Only an idiot would conclude that from what Sparko said.

new amen button

[seven7up]

7up,

It really seems to me to be a stretch in the extreme to claim that anybody is saying that there is anything wrong with the things you listed from the quotes provided. Perhaps you should provide some evidence that they are doing this.

In reference to mothers (and by extension Heavenly Mother), Sparko said:

They are too busy being barefoot and pregnant. After all who is going to create new spirit babies?

And she has to keep the house clean, make dinner for God and all his angels, take the spirit babies to soccer. She is way too busy to go around working at the office as a God. That's a man's job.

I think we are all familiar with the mockery being used here, phrases like "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen" are being invoked.

-7up

[seven7up]

Is anybody willing to read the sermons on the Biblical perspective provided by Grace to You, the well known Evangelical ministry?

Quoted from : http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...-on-Motherhood

"And here witless Christians jump on this Feminist bandwagon as if it was some harmless thing. "Well, we have a right to work and we shouldn't be confined at home...and I have a right to express fully myself," and...silly women who fall prey and silly men who do as well. ....

There is no doubt about what a woman's role is, there's no doubt what a man's role is. Look at our text again. What has God designed for a woman? Verse 4, "To love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands that the Word of God may not be dishonored." That's very clear....

God has laid out His standards. They're not negotiable. And I'll tell you this, if the church doesn't wake up soon and obey the Word of God, all is lost. We don't need to fall victim to this stuff. You don't need a Master's Degree to figure out what it means to love your husband, love your children, and work at home. How hard is that? By the way, there are no qualifiers there, no caveats, no footnotes. It's just what it says. Go home, submit to your husband, have children, raise them in godliness, take care of your house. And that's what older women are to teach younger women, they're to teach it not only with their mouth, they're to teach it with their life."

Would anybody like to discuss the scriptures that John MacArthur is referring to? He continues:

"So, Lord, we ask that You would call Your church, not just this church but Your church, back to a biblical understanding of the role of women that we might be faithful."

In part 2 he goes into the detail of the Biblical text here: http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons...r-Women-Part-2

So, are you guys disagreeing with how Mormons view the role of men and women, or are you disagreeing with the Biblical and Christian view of those roles?

-7up

[Cow Poke]

So, are you guys disagreeing with how Mormons view the role of men and women, or are you disagreeing with the Biblical and Christian view of those roles?

-7up

I'm calling you out on your false accusation that Sparko was denigrating motherhood. Try to pay attention. Please prove your claim.

[Sparko]

In reference to mothers (and by extension Heavenly Mother), Sparko said:



I think we are all familiar with the mockery being used here, phrases like "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen" are being invoked.

-7up

I was not mocking motherhood or housewives but the fact that mormons expect their women to only be those things (I even gave a quote from one of your apostles) and perhaps that is why "mother God" is pretty much ignored in mormon theology.


The Honored Place of Woman
Ezra Taft Benson

Since the beginning, a woman’s first and most important role has been ushering into mortality spirit sons and daughters of our Father in Heaven.
...
In the beginning, Adam was instructed to earn the bread by the sweat of his brow—not Eve. Contrary to conventional wisdom, a mother’s place is in the home!
...
Beguiling voices in the world cry out for “alternative life-styles” for women. They maintain that some women are better suited for careers than for marriage and motherhood.

These individuals spread their discontent by the propaganda that there are more exciting and self-fulfilling roles for women than homemaking. Some even have been bold to suggest that the Church move away from the “Mormon woman stereotype” of homemaking and rearing children. They also say it is wise to limit your family so you can have more time for personal goals and self-fulfillment.
...
It is a misguided idea that a woman should leave the home, where there is a husband and children, to prepare educationally and financially for an unforeseen eventuality. Too often, I fear, even women in the Church use the world as their standard for success and basis for self-worth.
---
https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...woman?lang=eng

Selected Teachings
President Spencer W. Kimball

“The husband is expected to support his family and only in an emergency should a wife secure outside employment. Her place is in the home, to build the home into a heaven of delight.

“Numerous divorces can be traced directly to the day when the wife left the home and went out into the world into employment. Two incomes raise the standard of living beyond its norm. Two spouses working prevent the complete and proper home life, break into the family prayers, create an independence which is not cooperative, causes distortion, limits the family and frustrates the children already born.

==============

Now this is at least the third time I have given you this explanation and you continue to ignore it and repeat yourself and accuse me of "mocking motherhood"

At this point I have no problem calling you a dishonest liar. So much for how honest and upstanding mormons are supposed to be.