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RolandJS
April 23rd 2003, 01:17 AM
[I copyNpasted the post below from another board; and modified for use here. Since it's my post, I decided to use it here also.]

Systematic theology, philosophical theology, theological apologia, if the outgrowth of Holy Spirit divine revelation, God's Written Word (the best each of us has available), and balanced, moderate Christians serves everyone (and not just the academic environs). Most would probably agree that prayer, meditation, study, prayer, meditation and study works wonders in increasing knowledge, understanding and wisdom.
One strength (among many) found amongst many Protestants is a United Nations: ambassadors from all walks of life coming together, determining common ground of the Essentials, disagreeing agreeably in the nonEssentials, with love one for another in all things. Ambassadors striving to fly, and march under, the banners of Sola (not solo) Scriptura, and the Life, Death & Resurrection of our Lord and Saviour.
One strength (among many) fround amongst many Catholics is a united entity, an army striving to fly, and march under, the banners of the Holy See, downline Church Leadership & Magisterium, and the Life, Death & Resurrection of our Lord and Saviour. Now, addressing directly the topic.
The answer cannot be found by simply elevating one verse or clump of verses up out of the history, culture, audience, speaker context; rather,
the answer(s) are going to found in the compiliation of verses, groups of verses and some good old fashioned "mind grease" amongs moderate Christians.
I sometimes see board posters (elsewhere) marching under the banner of "solo scriptura" (me, my Bible and the Lord) -- such works for some topics, but probably not this one. I sometimes see board posters (elsewhere) marching under the banner of "clergy-led" (I believe only because my church says so) -- such works for some topics; but probably not this one.
The topic of where do babies and small children go when they die is much bigger than can be covered in any sentence or paragraph. To me, the answer is going to come from the Nature of God, Master Plan of God, Times/Eras of Salvation and a few other linked, associated topics.
Personally, I believe God has a time period after the Lord's 2nd Coming in which every individual (who, known to God, didn't have a first chance) to be raised and allowed to live a life being given the real first chance. The Bible presentation to prove this is very extensive, I simply suggest securing booklet(s) from United Church of God, an International Association -- many denominations believing similarily, I think UCG presents the most balanced approach to this major topic set.
I attend Worldwide Church of God (transformed by Truth)'s Family Christian Fellowship (www.family-christian.org), which also has balanced and moderate material concerning The Wonderful World Tomorrow, differing somewhat from UCG. WCG and FCF does NOT believe what I believe concerning this post.
In summary, I believe this topic cannot be answered by elevating verse or verse clumps out of their contextual grounds; rather, this topic can be answered by a Magisterium of clergy and laity alike, [re]searching, prayer & meditation. And most important: remember you are speaking about the children belonging to Almighty God, walk carefully and prayerfully.
Roland

RolandJS
April 23rd 2003, 01:24 AM
On another board, someone mentioned God being just to send babies and small children (who never had a first chance) to hell because of "Adam/EveMess rolling downhill" (my words).
I suggested an extended excavation (Bible Study) - I think the problem might be an improper distribution: that which happens to know-better decision-making teens and adults might not be that which happens to infants and small children not having any first opportunity to choose Life.
More later :)
Roland

DBoone
April 24th 2003, 12:28 PM
Contraversialist -
You mention the group of Christians that heed the authority of the Scriptures, and also the group that heed the authority of Church Tradition, but I didn't see any reference to the group that heed the authority of Human Reason, of which I'm afraid we hear far too much on forums like this.

RolandJS
April 25th 2003, 11:16 PM
Dboone:
Excellent point! I guess there was no way for me to cover all possible, reasonable facets of this discussion upfront - I needed help from nice, thoughtful folks such as you!
Since I mentioned solO Scriptura and lockstep-marching, and you mentioned Human Reason -- as being problematic -- we can dialogue from that vantagepoint onward :)
Would you like to elaborate upon your point, I think you have much to add to this discussion!
ybiC, Roland

Socrates
April 26th 2003, 02:58 AM
Reason is fine if it is ministerial (submitting to the propositions of Scripture and deducing theorems from them) rather than magisterial (presuming to sit in judgement upon Scripture). AiG has a helpful article, Loving God With All Your Mind: Logic and Creation (http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/tj_v12n2_logic.asp).

RolandJS
April 26th 2003, 06:32 PM
Socrates has spoken wisely! However, I don't believe I advocated "magisterial" as he defined "magisterial."
There are many using "solO scriptura," instead of "solA scriptura" -- which results in the same problem -- folks sitting in judgement of God's Word, rather than having God's Word sitting in judgement of everything coming out of our minds.
Roland

DBoone
April 27th 2003, 03:08 AM
I think that what you folks are saying here is pretty much what I would have said. Our faculty of reason is so subjective and fickle that it's possible to interpret anything out of the Bible if you really want to: Charles Manson, Jim Jones, David Koresh. But then again, they were crazy - but that's the problem isn't it? How can we determine when or not are we rightly interpreting Scripture: by the context and meanings provided in Sripture? By the Traditions that have been upheld by the Clergy? Or by what we personally think or feel is reasonable?

If we go by the standard that Human Reason is the supreme authority then we end up with our present situation: a million different ways to God all saying that they're equal and valid and no one bothers to just ask God who knows best, since only He can be truly objective in this case.

This is how I feel about this: Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away but God's Word will not, and I have a hard enough time figuring out how I personally think or feel on a day to day basis to put any faith in myself, or even in the opinions and assertions of those who are in the same boat I am even if they do have the stamp of ecclesial approval. God's Word seems to me to be the best qualified to interpret itself, and when we mere humans have a problem figuring it out, Scripture gives the best advice possible: ask the Author.

mickiel
May 11th 2003, 12:21 AM
We can search the scriptures until we are blue in the face, because in them we think we have life. We cannot find a God who hides himself, Is. 54:7, 45:15. He also keeps silent for a long time, Is.42:7,14. His thoughts are nothing like ours, Is. 55:8, so i think we are way off and will stay that way until God releases us from ignorance. Rom.8:20

Bartholomew
May 11th 2003, 12:43 AM
04-27-2003 @ 03:08 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=79941#post79941)
DBoone:

If we go by the standard that Human Reason is the supreme authority then we end up with our present situation: a million different ways to God all saying that they're equal and valid and no one bothers to just ask God who knows best, since only He can be truly objective in this case.

...

Scripture gives the best advice possible: ask the Author.

How do you "ask the Author"?

~Matt

DBoone
May 22nd 2003, 12:19 PM
<How do you "ask the Author"?>

In this case the Author is spiritual, so prayer is the appropriate method of inquiry. Jesus promises the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. He helps us get to know Jesus, and the more we know about Jesus the clearer His words to us are.

RolandJS
May 24th 2003, 11:08 PM
All:
Thanks to all of you for replying!! I'm learning much from this post (here and other places). I will re-read everything before adding anything :)
ybiC, Roland

Socrates
May 24th 2003, 11:41 PM
stollerusa: Socrates has spoken wisely! However, I don't believe I advocated "magisterial" as he defined "magisterial."Fair enough.

stollerusa:There are many using "solO scriptura," instead of "solA scriptura" -- which results in the same problem -- folks sitting in judgement of God's Word, rather than having God's Word sitting in judgement of everything coming out of our minds.Umm, the Latin case endings seem mixed up there. I don't follow what you mean by them. But it looks like we don't really disagree on subtance. :cheers: