For Reba

[GrayPilgrim]

Reba this is your Question.

[GrayPilgrim]

I will answer, no I have not.

[Gavin]

In my view some discussion of "tongues of fire" is needed before we can get anywhere. What exactly does this mean?

[GrayPilgrim]

Reba
IF i knew how to work this thing i would post a poll the question asked would be, Have you ever seen the tongues of fire as spoken of in Act 2 :3?

[graceinme]

I need to learn how to do a poll too.

[Rubia Warren]

I have heard that some people in other countries have- but I guess that could be considered hearsay, though. I have never seen anything like that, personally.
I never thought about it that much... I just assumed it happened that way in Acts as kind of like an initial "sign", I guess you could call it, because they who were in the upper room had been tarrying for the Holy Ghost, or the "comforter" to come, and he finally did. I don't know if that's right or not, but it's what I always thought.

[GrayPilgrim]

La Rubia:
I have heard that some people in other countries have- but I guess that could be considered hearsay, though. I have never seen anything like that, personally.
I never thought about it that much... I just assumed it happened that way in Acts as kind of like an initial "sign", I guess you could call it, because they who were in the upper room had been tarrying for the Holy Ghost, or the "comforter" to come, and he finally did. I don't know if that's right or not, but it's what I always thought.

La Rubia, that's been my understanding too, that is was the first fruits, showing that something new had arrived. As each of the succesive covenant breakers were killed by God (Nadab and Abihu in the OT, and Ananias and Saphira in the NT), so also with the new manifestation of God's Temple God's glory was revealed in a pillar of fire (the Tabernacle & Solomon's Temple in the OT and here the first believers filled with the Holy Spirit in the NT). Just food for thought, I'd long put the N&A together with A&S but never the temple thing.

GP

[Rubia Warren]

Oh that's good, Gray. I had never put the other ones together! I'm glad you posted that. I guess I'd assumed it to be that way, because didn't they pretty much NOT really know exactly how it was going to go down when the Spirit was poured out? The only thing that comes to mind was that they knew that they would be baptized with fire(or am I thinking of something else?). They probably expected whatever was going to happen was gonna be pretty awesome, but I don't think it was really spelled out for them that it would get kinda windy and they'd start speakin' in another language. Maybe the tongues of fire were to let them know, "this is it, guys, here it is!". Aw, heck, I don't know- clear it up for me, Gray! You know what I'm tryin' to say!

[Rubia Warren]

That reminds me... I did a bible study quite a while ago, and in it, we were given a timeline, and on it, there were a few groups of people in the mix who had reported seeing the cloven tongues. I'm going to have to dig it out (if I still even have it) and check it out to see if maybe I can find information about it or the group- I know it was from, like, I wanna say a few hundred years ago, in some foreign countries. It would be interesting just to check it out and see what I find.

[Reba]

HEY! :)


I just found this thank you 'ol foggy one' !


if some one has seen the 'tongues of fire' then the notion that most of us agree on ( the fire was the first or only for the upper room) would not hold water.



Some thing this computer has taught me ( not typeing or spelling) the scriptures do not say many things i thought they did and viceversa...


Thanks again :thumb:

[Reba]

In my view some discussion of "tongues of fire" is needed before we can get anywhere. What exactly does this mean?


Acts 2:1-6
:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this w
KJV

[Rubia Warren]

So, if someone HAS seen the cloven tongues of fire, Reba, what does THAT mean?

[Reba]

La Rubia,

I am 56 years old. I have heard tongues all my life. When i was a kid i was in church twice on Sunday Wed Bible study more often with guest speakers etc. (that was just for background) Always tongues ALWAYS . Mom and Dad always prayed in tongues.... Now the thoughts thta have been posted here ie; the tongues of fire were because it was the 'first" in the upper room has been my standard also. IF some one has seen the tongues of fire that standard would not be true.


why do we not see the tonges of fire all the time?

[Rubia Warren]

I don't know, Reba. It is something I've never spent a lot of time wondering about until now...(Gee, thanks a lot, Reba! Now I have yet another pressing question on my mind that I can't rest until I find out!!! :bonk: LOL Just Kidding.)
I don't know who said that they've seen it in the poll, I wish that they would tell us about it, though. I found that bible study with the timeline that I was talking about last night. Before I post who and when it was, I'm going to check it out this weekend to make sure it has at least halfway reliable sources- don't wanna go using a bunch of kooks as an example, or anything!!! LOL

[Gavin]

I still have absolutely no idea what "tongues of fire" are. Literal, symbolic, partially both?

[Rubia Warren]

I don't know, either, Gavin. I always just assumed that the cloven tongues of fire in the bible were literal and something you could see, but the more I think about it, I could very well be wrong.

[Reba]

Strongs for fire as used in Acts 2;3


NT:4442
pur (poor); a primary word; "fire" (literally or figuratively, specifically, lightning):

KJV - fiery, fire.


Thayer's Greek Lexicon sent me here. . .

Matt 3:10-12
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
KJV



Gavin some how i dont think this is what you are asking about I'd bet you have way more resorces than i do.Because i know how sarcastic i can be i will state these are real questioins i have, looking for understanding I do not have an agenda in this matter. :) What are your views your thoughts i personal think the people in the upper room felt the wind ( thay had to to know it was there) and saw some form of a glow over each other something that according to scripture looked like fire and we all know what a flame looks like.

[Reba]

Acts 2:1-4
. Here is a visible sign of the gift they were to receive. They saw cloven tongues, like as of fire (v. 3), and it sat-ekathise, not they sat, those cloven tongues, but he, that is the Spirit (signified thereby), rested upon each of them, as he is said to rest upon the prophets of old. Or, as Dr. Hammond describes it, "There was an appearance of something like flaming fire lighting on every one of them, which divided asunder, and so formed the resemblance of tongues, with that part of them that was next their heads divided or cloven." The flame of a candle is somewhat like a tongue; and there is a meteor which naturalists call ignis lambens-a gentle flame, not a devouring fire; such was this.


(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)

[Rubia Warren]

So, would that have to happen with eveyone still yet today, or could it still appear sometimes?

[Reba]

"Cessationists" this is a word i cant pronounce although i understand its meaning. IF the fire has stopped have the tongues?

Sure wish i had the answers La Rubia :argh:

[bar Jonah]

Well, 10 of the 11 people who have voted have said they have never seen such tongues of fire. So that tells me it is certainly not a necessary event in any person's salvation, to say the least. (Heck, I've never even been baptized, and I've been saved for 3 years.)

[Reba]

RightIdea:
Well, 10 of the 11 people who have voted have said they have never seen such tongues of fire. So that tells me it is certainly not a necessary event in any person's salvation, to say the least. (Heck, I've never even been baptized, and I've been saved for 3 years.)


I agree RI ! I just have found this to be curious. I woud truly be interested in the story of the person who has seen the flames... I am sure if they identified them selfs they would be up for ridicule from someone.

And IF the 'flames' were only for 'that ' time would that alnoe not be a start of 'cessation'?

[AcousticJS]

Reba:
And IF the 'flames' were only for 'that ' time would that alnoe not be a start of 'cessation'?

I wouldn't say that the flames were only for that time. I would say that the Bible only describes them as being present on the day of Pentecost. Some have suggested that the baptism in the Spirit is normally conferred by the laying on of hands by someone who has already received the Spirit, but obviously there was no-one who could lay hands on the 120 so that they could be baptised in the Spirit. The theory then goes that the tongues of fire were Jesus Himself 'laying hands' on the 120 that they might receive the Holy Spirit. I don't know how convinced I am of this from the Scriptures, but it doesn't particularly bother me. Jesus could do the same thing today, but we're not told to expect it or even ask for it as a necessary sign of the baptism in the Spirit.

This wouldn't necessarily prove anything for cessationists however, because we are told to ask for the baptism in the Spirit as a definite experience as part of the conversion process (for a study on this see "Jesus Baptises in One Holy Spirit" by David Pawson - it's a book) and we are commanded to 'eagerly desire' spiritual gifts (1 Cor 14:1) after having been told by Paul that the miraculous spiritual gifts would be given until Jesus returns (a summary of 1 Cor 13:8-13). These and many other indications in Scripture lead me to believe in the present-day use and experience of spiritual gifts.

God bless
Jon

[Reba]

I wouldn't say that the flames were only for that time. I would say that the Bible only describes them as being present on the day of Pentecost.

Some how Jon the above doesn't blend in my mind. The Bible only discribes them as being persent on the day of Pentecost but they werent for only for that time?

[AcousticJS]

Reba:

Some how Jon the above doesn't blend in my mind. The Bible only discribes them as being persent on the day of Pentecost but they werent for only for that time?

Kind of. The Bible is clear that they were present on the Day of Pentectost, but it doesn't say that they always should be, nor that they never will be again.

To my mind that suggests that they are not essential, but neither are they impossible for today. I have never seen the tongues of fire, but I have no problem believing that some have, and that I may yet (I'm only 20, so I've hopefully got at least another 60 years in me yet!)

To put it yet another way. The Bible describes the tongues of fire, but doesn't prescribe them as either necessary or impossible after the days of Pentecost.

Hopefully I'm now making sense!!!

God bless
Jon

[Carl Smuda]

Technically, can we assume that anyone saw the fire? They HEARD something. But did they see the fire? I was taught that God showed his acceptance of a sacrifice by consuming fire. And that the first Christians who first received that gift from Christ, when He first poured it out, after He received it from His Father, was in someway an anointing showing God's approval.

When the day of Pentecost was fully come...I was taught that God had been waiting for a long time and that day finally the first fruits of the Spirit were poured out.

I don't know...:huh:

[Reba]

Well Carl some one discribed it. . .