Best Arguments FOR Christianity

[Seasanctuary]

Ok, fellow unbelievers, what do you personally consider the best arguments for Christianity? No lampooning, please.

[EvoUK]

Um...

:huh: :nc:

The only arguments I can think of are to do with a historical jesus (the man, not the christ myth), but then that's not really a christian argument par se...

Personally, I find deistic arguments far more convincing- which is why I take more of a weak atheistic stance towards them.

If I think of any good Christian arguments, I'll let you know.

[HRG_new]

Ok, fellow unbelievers, what do you personally consider the best arguments for Christianity? No lampooning, please.

The moral system which is presented in the Gospel, with its strong emphasis on loving and helping each other. A faith which requires for salvation "feeding the hungry, clothing the naked" etc., although they may be "the lowest of my brothers" deserves some admiration.

(Too bad that Paul insisted on salvation by grace)

[MikeWC]

I'm inclined to think that the origin of matter is genuine difficulty for us unbelievers, and when Christians point that out, I rarely see responses from atheists that seem credible.

[EvoUK]

I'm inclined to think that the origin of matter is genuine difficulty for us unbelievers, and when Christians point that out, I rarely see responses from atheists that seem credible.

That's merely a deistic argument- not necessarily a christian one. Any creator(s) could explain it- there's no reason to assume it was theirs, or anyone elses version of god.

[EvoUK]

The moral system which is presented in the Gospel, with its strong emphasis on loving and helping each other. A faith which requires for salvation "feeding the hungry, clothing the naked" etc., although they may be "the lowest of my brothers" deserves some admiration.

(Too bad that Paul insisted on salvation by grace)

Yes, I very rarely seem to manage to get any real form of consensus whether you're saved by works or faith. Personally, I think faith seems to be more important- as non-christians don't get to heaven- regardless how they act.

Personally, the heinous exclusive salvation belief is one of christianities most repugnant.

[Superbug]

That's merely a deistic argument- not necessarily a christian one. Any creator(s) could explain it- there's no reason to assume it was theirs, or anyone elses version of god.

And then you'd have to explain where this creator came from.

[Minnesota]

Well, I actually stopped and gave this one some solid thought, and honestly can't come up with a single one. About as close as I could come is that there have been some very bright people who have bought into Christianity, and perhaps they latched onto some convincing bit of info that I'm missing. But, then there are equally bright people who don't buy Christianity at all.

This isn't to say that the religion doesn't have its pluses or serves a purpose for some, but these are not reasons that would support its claim of truth.

[Archimedes]

Ok, fellow unbelievers, what do you personally consider the best arguments for Christianity? No lampooning, please.
Ad populum. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of millions of fli.. eh people could be wrong.

It's better than brand X. Christianity wins hands down its main competitors among religions: Islam, Paganism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. If I were to decide that some religion (real religion with prophets and miracles and holy books and crazy nutjob fanatics, not just some 20th century philosophical system) is correct, Christianity would be rather likely to be the one.

[Superbug]

If I had to choose a religion, it would be Buddhism. Buddhists look peaceful.

[Lagomorpha]

I´m with Archimedes;ad populum.

I'm inclined to think that the origin of matter is genuine difficulty for us unbelievers, and when Christians point that out, I rarely see responses from atheists that seem credible. So christians have this all solved?
Can´t resist such a reply.

[steamer]

Hmm, Not all things that appear false are actually false? No wait, that's lampooning. That Jesus may have existed isn't a huge stretch. Ummm er, This is a hard question.

I once had an experience, while sleeping, where I thought I had left my body. This might have been a vivid dream though.

If you have seen a ghost that could be evidence of an afterlife.

Ok, I got nothing here. I haven't seen a good arguement yet.

[EvoUK]

Ad populum. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of millions of fli.. eh people could be wrong.

Meh- I've found that most of them don't have the first clue about their religion, the history of it, or their holy book and the history of that etc. Sheep is right.

[EvoUK]

When I've asked many christians what they feel is the strongest argument, they've either said "personal experience" (they had an experience and attributed it to the christian god- shows a christian upbringing, or at the very least the product of a christian society).

Another one is merely a deistic argument (design argument- how did we get here etc), which due to their upbringing or society- they attribute to the christian god.

Let me think of other main arguments-

There's the obvious ego one- they can't stand the idea of being an "accident". You don't very often see them admit this, however, it comes over very strongly in any thread where an atheist meaning to life etc comes up. They have to feel they were made for a specific purpose. More of an emotional need than anything.

I'm trying to be as broad as possible- but needless to say I find none of them convincing. Perhaps someone can bring up some more- just in case there were some we didn't consider...

[zorathruster]

The idea that someone can give his life to try and change people:

I know that all you people out there have hate and fear in your heart. It is part of being human. I know you need some way to release it. You need to tear apart something to release that hate and fear. Nothing is more dear to me than my life. If there is no other way for you to stop hating, to release your fear, than to kill something, you may kill that which is dearest to me! After you kill me I want you to remember how crass and hateful you were and I want you to stop doing that. I want you to embrace your fellow man even if he is your enemy. I want you to help the least of your neighbors. When you get to the point of anger and frustration and feel like doing it again, don't. Just remember me and I've already been killed so you don't have to do that again.

[Sacrificial Ram]

I'm inclined to think that the origin of matter is genuine difficulty for us unbelievers, and when Christians point that out, I rarely see responses from atheists that seem credible.
The problem with that one is that 'I don't know' is a perfect response for that,
and just because you don't know doesn't mean that it is evidence of a supernatual being that just so happens to be the Christian God, and which brought it into existance.

Not knowing is not evidence for any reliigon, or any supernatural being.

[Ursus maritimus]

I'm inclined to think that the origin of matter is genuine difficulty for us unbelievers, and when Christians point that out, I rarely see responses from atheists that seem credible. To repeat Sacrificial Lamb's response to this, I have no difficulty in saying "I don't know." There are lots of things I don't know, and as much as I am curious as to the origin of matter I just don't loose much sleep over it.

As far as the original topic of this thread, what is the best argument for Christianity: I can't think of any interesting argument for Christianity that couldn't also be used for any of the other major religions.

[Superbug]

There's the obvious ego one- they can't stand the idea of being an "accident".


And they like to think that they were special, better than other animals. Our planet is obviously anthropocentric, everything was created for our pleasures. Only humans have free will, conscience, morality etc. We are important to the whole universe.

Another emotional argument is fear of dying. If we are going to die eventually, what's the point of living?

They also like to think that they are right. Their morality is objective and the Bible reveals the truth. What they know is true and they can confidently say when someone is right or wrong.

How can a theory that implies that humans are only animals, that morality is relative, and that our lifetimes are finite be true?

[EvoUK]

Urgh, that sterile black and white view of the world irritates the hell out of me!

[Slayer-2004]

I really cant think of any . Attempts at answering how a god can allow a hell ... I have read some good attempts on that from ex-witch , but it was still an easy argument for me to debunk . I cant really think of any good Xian arguments ecause every xian I have debated with either knew less about the bible then me , or used poor and circular arguments that often proved themselves wrong ( and sometimes both )

And as for deist arguments ---> Wazzah I am a deist .

[EvoUK]

Ooh- I found a short list of christian arguments on another board:

1. There seems to be design in the universe. If there is design there is a designer.

2. We are able to recognize goodness in the universe, but against what do we measure that goodness? There seems to be an innate sense of goodness in everyone, and everyone seems to measure goodness. Measurements require a standard, and the measurement of goodness is perfect goodness (comeplete goodness).

3. We observe cause and effect relationships in the universe, it is not unreasonable to believe that there was an intial cause. Such an initial cause would have to be uncaused, always have existed.

4. The majority of people who have lived since the time of our first history believed in some form of God. Such a believe cannot have been held for so long without some forms of assurance. Millions in history have claimed to have experienced God in their lives.

5. There is a long history of philosophical reasoning which indicates the existence of God.

6. There seems to be a driving need within humans to believe in a God. What need is there that cannot be answered?

7. I myself have experienced what I believe to be God in my life. I have also seen much in my life that I understand as guidance, not mere coincidence.

8. From all the philosophy I've taken, and all the theology that I have learned, from the theories that I've developed, and the slow confirmation of them as new discoveries are made, from the mathematics that I've learned, to the psychology that I have been taught, from the science that I know to the poetry of history, I have found unity, not contradiction in the notion of God.

9. Even Einstein saw the need for a God.

10. If there is no God, no life after death, then there is little point in living, at least not that I can see.

#1 - A deistic argument- not necessarily a christian one. One would have to already believe in the christian god to consider this evidence.
- Only a human would see design in things because that is how our mind works; we make sense out of the world using logic and reason and by drawing connections and relationships.

#2 - assertion- missing the middle of the argument- why is the measurement of goodness perfect goodness?
- Goodness, happiness, and any positive in general can only be defined through the experience of some lesser state. "Goodness" is most felt immediately after a bad or lower period of experience.

#3 - Cause and effect is a function of the human mind. Cause and effect relationships are imposed and learned by the human mind and are not entities inherent to objects and events in the universe.

#4 - Ad populum. Truth and fact are not decided upon by vote.
- The role of "God" has dramatically decreased with the increase in scientific knowledge. God is often taught as being "mysterious" in our modern age. In contrast, during the superstitious Middle Ages, God was responsible for everything that was not readily understood.

#5 - There is a long history of philosophical reasoning which indicates the absence of a god. :wink:

#6 - It is not God that people need. It is answers. Religion can provide answers. But so can logic and reason.

#7 - Consider the fact that you could have been raised under different circumstances in a different culture. You would not have been exposed to those experiences which you connect to your spirituality. In other words, you could not speak of God or angels if grew up Hindu or Buddhist.
- like in #1 and #3, human beings have no choice but to find reasons and causes, thus there can be in illusion of no coincidences. Furthermore, coincidence is only a human imagination.

#8 - How odd- I found the opposite...

#9 - Since when was einstein an authority on gods? Sounds like an argument to improper authority. Einsteins opinions on gods are just as valid as the next laymans.

#10 - my sig goes into this.

[EvoUK]

Slayer:

#1 - Thanks for the imput, and welcome to the forums!

#2 - As you are theist- you can't technically post here- which is atheist only. Sorry about that!

[C. D. Ward]

<crickets>

[LGM]

Ok, fellow unbelievers, what do you personally consider the best arguments for Christianity? No lampooning, please.

The best "argument" is the loving, caring fellowship that can take place in a active Christian church and community. Organized, western Christians can do wonderful things for their members in need, their local communities, and those in need through out the world. They are a powerful force for many selfless acts of love, mercy and justice in the world.

LGM
...if will be difficult to replicate that so succesfully in a non theistic setting..

[Mentalist]

The only arguments I can currently think of for Christianity specifically are

a) personal experience
b) jesus actually performing the actions as described in the bible

I find neither at all convincing. Personal experience is easy to demonstrate but demonstrates very little. Jesus performing miracles demonstrates a lot but is very difficult to demonstrate.

Deistic arguments tend to be more convincing, though I find creators with infinite properties considerably less plausible than those without. Aliens creating this universe as a subsystem of their universe for entertainment or experimental purposes, brains in jars, the Matrix I find to be some of the most plausible ideas (though not necessarily likely) for some form of creator. However, whether any of these concepts are true makes little to no practical difference to our living, so while they may be of intellectual curiosity unless we happen to stumble across some flaw or built in mechanism that grants us knowledge of any possible system outside of our universe there isn't really any action that can be taken regarding them.

[XaositectCrayon]

wow... that's a tough one... really nothing.

I love the religion very much and believe it has alot to offer spiritually but to prove whether or not some central all powerful being is behind the nature of the spirit and the creation to me is something I will add "I just dont know till I get there" and changes nothing in me.
The spirituality of it then I guess. The possibility is there regardless but the spirituality makes it most probable. But then that's just an argument for any form of theism...

[Alchemist]

I would have to agree wtih HRG_New and LGM. I still kinda feel warm and fuzzy when I read Jesus' words about loving your neighbor as yourself. If it wasn't for Buddah saying pretty much the same thing half a millenia before it would be even more convincing.

Other than that the argument from morality would be the best. Why do I care about what is right and wrong? I think that evolutionary biology kinda solved that one but it is the only one that comes close to convincing for me.

[material_miser]

That's a tough pick. When all is said and done, the best would be personal testimony and "experiences" because dealing with religion so often comes down to what the person chooses and is moved to believe in. I mean, how do you argue with someone who says to you what a woman said to me back when I was a minister, trying to convert her from Mormonism, "Paul? I believe Joseph Smith over Paul any day! I saw Joseph Smith and he literally glowed." I will never forget those words. Amazing, the power of tthe mind!

MM

[XaositectCrayon]

I got one

Zoroastriumism is the best argument for Christianity

apparently... (and quite possibly up to 2000 years before the world was created) someone prophesized Jesus Christ.... His name was Zorothursta

is it the discordianism in me that makes me want to call him Zorothruster?

just a little joke... for all I know I could be wrong here just read in Zoroastriumism (am I even spelling it right) that a man of virgin birth would be born to help contribute to most against an evil god (>.> well... the new testiment did replace the old testiment).

[Griggsy]

I got one

Zoroastriumism is the best argument for Christianity

apparently... (and quite possibly up to 2000 years before the world was created) someone prophesized Jesus Christ.... His name was Zorothursta

is it the discordianism in me that makes me want to call him Zorothruster?

just a little joke... for all I know I could be wrong here just read in Zoroastriumism (am I even spelling it right) that a man of virgin birth would be born to help contribute to most against an evil god (>.> well... the new testiment did replace the old testiment).
One would expect my answer - none. At best, Christinsanity is a placebo!

[n0rstar]

In My experience I fight fire with fire.

The Adam and Ever story.

The Story of Noah.

Samual and his conquests.

These has always proven powerful grounds for disapproval of Bible Ideology, whatever it may be (Symbolisim, Local Events, Justifiable reasonings of God).

I apply Mythology to all of these accounts.

Discrediting the writtings of the Pauline and Gospels as being pious fraud builds a good foundation for the Jesus Myth.

Then again non of these will work against the uncatergorized christians whom claim to be christian, but don't beleave in the bible.

go figure?

[n0rstar]

One would expect my answer - none. At best, Christinsanity is a placebo!

:lmbo:

that is so going in my AOL away messages.

[Bagger_Vance]

Best argument for Christianity is that it makes you feel better. Like a stiff drink or a sleeping pill it can pacify you. If you require something to "make it all go away" Christianity might be your best bet. As far as cult leaders go Jesus isn't that bad. He's a cult leader you could have a glass of wine with.

[XaositectCrayon]

I always thought the "whether or not they happened" bit was a red herring

if Christianity is right... which I highly doubt but am not closed too... then those stories whether fact or fiction were divinely inspired. So they have to be there for a reason unless their god likes doing pointless things

[Gaytheist]

The best argument for Christianity is the one they made to my ancestors: Convert to Christianity or we'll burn you at the stake. That's quite effective.

[Griggsy]

The best argument for Christianity is the one they made to my ancestors: Convert to Christianity or we'll burn you at the stake. That's quite effective.
Gaytheist, so right . Welcome aboard!

[Bagger_Vance]

The best argument for Christianity is the one they made to my ancestors: Convert to Christianity or we'll burn you at the stake. That's quite effective.

This is the correct snark remark.

[Griggsy]

This is the correct snark remark.
Bagger Vance and other skeptics , please help my comments at my threads along to further the cause of rationalism. Thanks.

[djdavo]

When I've asked many christians what they feel is the strongest argument, they've either said "personal experience" (they had an experience and attributed it to the christian god- shows a christian upbringing, or at the very least the product of a christian society).

Another one is merely a deistic argument (design argument- how did we get here etc), which due to their upbringing or society- they attribute to the christian god.

Let me think of other main arguments-

There's the obvious ego one- they can't stand the idea of being an "accident". You don't very often see them admit this, however, it comes over very strongly in any thread where an atheist meaning to life etc comes up. They have to feel they were made for a specific purpose. More of an emotional need than anything.

I'm trying to be as broad as possible- but needless to say I find none of them convincing. Perhaps someone can bring up some more- just in case there were some we didn't consider...

i dont know if i'm allowed to post here or not,so delete this if i'm not :smile:

what about the arguement from archeology? there's been a whole lot more people/places/things in the bible confirmed than any other book in antiquity.

there's a lot more work to get to christianity,but in the end all of it ultimately hinges on proving the bible to be reliable, doesn't it?

[HRG_new]

i dont know if i'm allowed to post here or not,so delete this if i'm not :smile:

what about the arguement from archeology? there's been a whole lot more people/places/things in the bible confirmed than any other book in antiquity.

Come on. There is not a single place in Livius which is not confirmed.

And how would this confirmation by way of ordinary claims tend to prove the extraordinary claims of the Bible ?

[familyof6]

Hi guys! I can't think of an arguement that would make Christianity true, however, I think there are things that can make it appealing. Love, generosity, kindness towards everyone, etc. I also know that church service to some Christians is a sort of therapy for them. It gives them strength, and a sense of belonging.

These things to not outweigh the horrible things about Christianity, nor do they make it 'truth'.

[Stabbytheclown]

i dont know if i'm allowed to post here or not,so delete this if i'm not :smile:

what about the arguement from archeology? there's been a whole lot more people/places/things in the bible confirmed than any other book in antiquity.

there's a lot more work to get to christianity,but in the end all of it ultimately hinges on proving the bible to be reliable, doesn't it?
By that logic, since Macbeth had real places and people in it, there must have really been witches and the events must have happened exactly as described. And the whole play was not a shameless piece of brown nosing by Shakespeare after James VI took the throne of England.

[familyof6]

I want to go on record as stating the following:
Stabby has the best avatars.

[XaositectCrayon]

i dont know if i'm allowed to post here or not,so delete this if i'm not :smile:

what about the arguement from archeology? there's been a whole lot more people/places/things in the bible confirmed than any other book in antiquity.

there's a lot more work to get to christianity,but in the end all of it ultimately hinges on proving the bible to be reliable, doesn't it?
most mythology is based on actual events...

[freethinker]

The question is somewhat ambiguous as it can be interpreted as "the truth of Christianity" or "the positive influence of Christianity."
It is a fact that science has progressed most in Christian countries. I suppose that is be best argument for Christianity, but somehow I feel unclean stating this.

[Griggsy]

Archaeology and history have disconfirmed many thing in the book- no Deluge, no Exodus and no genocide} The Hebrews probaly were just Caananites! See the "Unauthorized Version,'The Bible Unearthed" and "Who were the Jews and where did they come from." Men used their imaginations to put it together and brayed that God told them so!

[neonmagek]

I don't know of any good arguements for Christianity in specific (and I have heard many). There is a good one for the practicality theism in general. It provides a set of rules that a society can live by, thus decreasing anxiety and fighting of those who are a part of the society. A binary system or morals (usualy assocated with theism) is more simplistic than other forms of moral. That leads to the morals being more clear to those in the society and easier to follow. There are, of course, draw backs, but that would be off topic.

[rizdek]

Ok, fellow unbelievers, what do you personally consider the best arguments for Christianity? No lampooning, please.

I think the historical jesus argument is very convincing and the prophecy angle gets a lot of mileage. Plus it's one sweet deal. With virtually no effort on ones part (just utter a few words) one is on their way to a better life, has a personal close friend in jesus, is "freed" from sin (but not from sinning), and will spend an eternity if a far better place. Regardless of how evil one might be, they can, by invoking the blood of jesus and saying they believe, get forgiveness and acceptance by the creator of the universe. No prerequisites, and actually no post-requisites.

So why don't I take advantage of it? Can't lie to myself.

[Griggsy]

Ah, but that is the divine protection racket! John 3:16-18 shows misanthropy~,One can love ones neighbor , while enslaving her.
Yeshua was just another cult leader, another fanactic!

[M.Talkingsworth]

Ok, fellow unbelievers, what do you personally consider the best arguments for Christianity? No lampooning, please.

I find the personal religious experience of Christians to be the most convincing.

[Seasanctuary]

I find the personal religious experience of Christians to be the most convincing.

I've heard it suggested that the common Christian opposition to recreational drugs is to prevent adherents from inducing mystical experiences outside of the approved religious context.

Makes sense. If Christian belief is your only source of wonderment and 'woah', it will tend to strike you as qualitatively different from dry reports of false belief systems.

[StephenR]

The best argument for Christianity I've heard have been about ultimate meaning or absolute morality.

It's sobering to think that all meaning, morality and the like really only have human, terrestrial significance.
What's worse, is that there really isn't any transcendent reason not to kill ourselves, since death is oblivion and we wouldn't suffer from it either way...

Christianity does offer existential hope there. Life culminates in a better existence after, which is triumphal and perfected.

[StephenR]

..Thinking about it, that wouldn't be an argument for just Christianity.. Other religions (and even some forms of atheistic idealism) might offer some sort of ultimate significance or claim to.

[laserfocused]

I think "hope."
And who the heck wants to go to hell?

[Bubba]

Ad populum. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of millions of fli.. eh people could be wrong.

It's better than brand X. Christianity wins hands down its main competitors among religions: Islam, Paganism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. If I were to decide that some religion (real religion with prophets and miracles and holy books and crazy nutjob fanatics, not just some 20th century philosophical system) is correct, Christianity would be rather likely to be the one.

Actually...no.

I painfully deconverted about 2003. Still think there may be a God...but no longer consider myself Christian.

However, were I to choose a theistic religion it would be Judaism by an order of magnitude.

Chris

[Griggsy]

Bubba, you have found yourself! You are your own person, not the sheep or the clay of some celestial tyrant. Do read the our naturalist threads to furhhter know why God is a non-concept to non-questions.Google arguments about Him that square circle to find out what others reveal about His non-existence. Google also the problem of Hwaven. Google skepitc griggsy to find more sites that can further your educaton.